School system

[ChickenRacer]

Hi,
My lo is supposed to be starting reception in September, but I really do not feel happy about it. No concerns specific to lo.

Its I just don’t feel confident schools are good places - because of the testing and pressure it brings, large children to staff ratios, ungentle behaviour policies, potential for bullying, the manipulation techniques teachers have to use when managing a class of kids, lack of play as they get older, I could go on!

it seems children have so many mental health problems these days and whilst I’m sure some of that is down to more awareness etc, I can’t help think that the modern school system has a big role in this too.

I know there is the possibility of home educating, but this isn’t a option for everyone, so where does this leave our children?

I see today that the government is increasing the academisation of school, basically privatisation of schools, which surely means managers making lots of money, money that really should be going to the children.

i don’t see very many people worried or talking about this often, so is it just me?!

Yes, when I say “ungentle” I mean anything that causes shame, such as names on wall going onto the red traffic light system for certain behaviours.

there is also much evidence to support the premise that reward charts and the like only encourage extrinisic motivation, and rather we should be using methods that promote intrinsic motivation.

I also think children start formal education too early - the Uk has one of the earliest starting ages. The school systems in countries such as Finland start much later and are having much better results.

there was a study that showed starting reading too early (as naturally children have a very wide age range in readiness to read, some are definitely interested very early but many others are not developmentally until much older, all ok) it can actually put children off of reading and so they end up once older with poorer reading comprehension.

I follow TES in Facebook and see that many teachers are very dissatisfied with the school system and that many leave the profession.

ive personally spoken to teachers who have left the profession as they felt it was doing the kids a disservice.

ive seem that the government wants to increase academy (ie school privatisation), but there is little evidence of improved child outcomes and there have been issues with money going to very high salaries for the top managers etc., rather than to the teachers and children.

I could go on and on.....

but my point is there seems so many flaws with the Uk school system (and not due to a fault of teachers) but no one seems to be worried about it, like politicians, media, general public?

And i don’t think it’s fair if anyone gets angry with me for researching, questioning, debating such issues, before sending my child (whom is the most important thing in my life) to such an institution. I think I’d be doing my child a larger disservice if I didn’t.

For the teachers who are getting angry with me.......

why am I wrong to want to make sure that I am sending my child to somewhere safe?!

the angry replies are making me feel even more that school isn’t safe, if I am being chastised for wanting know what kind of place I might be sending my child. I just don’t get it. Surely that’s better than parents who don’t give two hoots?!

and surely parents and teachers should be trying to work together to get the government to change things for the better, rather than fight between us? I think teachers and parents want the same thing - the best for the kids?

I can see both sides of this debate. It's a bit of a factory system for churning put compliant workers. But I'm hoping it's better these days. I think individual schools can probably vary massively too. Read John Taylor Gatto.

I asked my 10 year old if he would have preferred to have been home educated and he said no way. I don't think I couod have taught him everything he has learned in his very middle class, state primary. Schools probably vary massively too. Once couod be brilliant another just adequate depending on teaching and leadership. So I can see both sides.

I am a single mum who has to work full time so unfortunately I don't have the time and money to homeschool. But I find the more you can do with them in terms of reading support etc, the quicker they thrive.

I’m basing my opinion on:

talking to friends with children already at school, including some who are happy, some not so much and some who taken children out of school to home educate instead.

following TES and “schoolweek” on Facebook

reading of peer reviewed research

talking to teacher friends

reading a lot of literature

I wanted to see what the opinion was on here too, so I could get a feel for a range of different peoples opinions, so my research wasn’t biased.

Op, you're not telling teachers anything they don't know.

Yes I'd rather have a class of 24 than 34, yes I'd rather have more TA support, yes I'd rather not punish children for appalling behaviour but I need to set an example for other children and also alone in a classroom can only do so much to support in the middle of a lesson.

I think home schooling is best for you.

Schools are not perfect but I think instead of lecturing teachers about how they should work with parents (who knew?!) about how best to run their classrooms based on to your philosophies that may or may not match the philosophies of the school or 30 other parents on children in the class, you be better off writing to your MP about school funding.

I am a former teacher. I think if you think that reward charts and names on the board induce unacceptable shame for children, then you should definitely home educate.

It might be a little harsh to say but shame is a natural emotion and children have to learn how to feel shame in order to feel guilt. Feeling guilt then transforms into the ability to feel empathy for others. If we don't let children go through these stages of development, they become stunted and narcissistic. I think we need some distinction between causing shame and humiliation. Humiliation should obviously be avoided at all costs but a child can be exposed to a little (keyword little) bit of shame to help them through the progression of feelings towards empathy. Names on the board are not humiliating.

Yes reception is lots of play, but then year 1 that is drastically cut and it’s mainly formal learning.

some children like phonics, some don’t and if they struggle that can really affect their self esteem. There is also evidence that learning to read too early an age l, if they as individuals aren’t ready (which is highly variable between kids) can put them off reading. Many other countries, that have much more successful school systems then us, don’t start formal education until 6 or 7.

there is so so so much evidence out there that learning through play is more effective in so many ways, but our government just insists on ignoring the evidence and just pushing for testing so they can tick boxes and compete children and schools against each other.

children spent a huge proportion of time at school, so it will have an affect on their mental health, however much it is buttered at home. If they are bullied, feel under too much pressure to do well in tests etc, if they are struggling with parts of the system but can’t be helped (due to insufficient funding fir eg).

Where in any of my posts did I blame teachers?

I’m a teacher and I actually agree with a lot of what you say! The system is broken. Understaffed and underfunded schools, exhausted and demoralised teachers who have to jump through ridiculous hoops all to please Mr Ofsted. Little children are expected to fit into a mould. If they don’t, then they need to try harder!! In the Uk all schools follow a particular model following government guidance me it just isn’t suited to the way children naturally learn. I always wonder why there aren’t more ‘styles’ of school to suit different learning needs/styles. Not enough play, hands on learning, fun or opportunities to talk and be creative in my opinion. Don’t even get me started on SATS. Obviously not all schools are the same but most are pretty similar these days.

All i can say is that lockdown was definitely bad for them. They missed their friends, got depressed. Sure, home school in normal times would have more outings, but even so it seems to me that school is obviously good for them.

It's all about the other kids, not the teacher, in terms of their self esteem. The other kids don't care if you get a reward star or not. One of my sons deliberately performs badly for social status. That's a problem in itself! But there's a lot more going on than what the poor teacher is trying to do. Much of it is good.

I’m not “lecturing” teachers how to do anything!

I think most of the issues I’ve outlined are things teachers have to do with the resources and situation they find themselves in due to the wider system and I know a lot of teachers would agree with the flaws I’ve brought up

i wanted to know others peoples opinions of how school is in reality, to gauge how concerning the flaws really are so I could come to terms with what environment I’m sending my child into.

if teachers know they should work with parents why have I in this post been told numerous times that I should just hone educate and that I am the type of parent that made them want to leave the profession? All I’ve done is outlined a number of issues that I’ve come across i my various reading that concern me, and surely it would be remiss of me to not look into further, and instead just send my child somewhere that may or may not be a healthy environment - I don’t know unless I ask!

when I say parents and teachers should work together what I mean is I think that it works quite nicely for the y to gave teachers and parents pitted against each other, and we (both parents and teachers) need to see this and instead hold the government into account

This.

From a tired year 2 teacher, supporting her own 3 children through A levels, GCSEs, and y5, buying and making my own resources as my school is massively in deficit, and took 2 boxes of own Lego/ playmobil for class to play with as a well done for trying their best so far for the quizzes (SATS), whilst getting to school for 7, and leaving at 6, and finishing off at home.

If it’s a really good day I have time to work on my ‘manipulation’ of 29 small children …🙄

@sydenhamhiller

Are you me?!

Op, go and volunteer in a school. See for yourself.

I'm tired of people telling me how to do my job and how they could do better as they understand how pupils learn much better.

thats an interesting way of thinking about it.

do you have any research that backs this up?

genuinely interested

Please tell me where I told you how to do your job? I was saying I’ve have concerns and then trying to get peoples opinions on how real these concerns are. Surely any good parent would want to know they are sending their child into a safe environment?

if you read my posts you will see the issues I’m concerned about are artifacts of the wider system - which teachers find themselves in - and not individual everyday teachers. And
many teachers agree with my concerns.

Following as curious about the shame comment too.

I was on a training course for therapeutic parenting and PACE as I am now a foster carer looking after traumatised teens. It was something the course leader was talking about so I don't have a link unfortunately but I did think it was interesting. Essentially her point was you have to get the kids to move past shame and towards guilt and empathy. This for my line of work involves naming emotions and "sitting in the feeling" with the child. With traumatised children this type of parenting can look quite different to standard parenting as traumatised children have brain damage as a result of past experiences.

The fact you have to work this hard and pay for resources out of your own pocket, and you feel so undervalued just adds to my concerns that the system is broken. I’m on your side! I want the people who look after my kids to be happy and rested

and I will reiterate again, I do not blame teachers! I blame the wider system.

school systems in places such as Finland are in my opinion (and through international studies etc) much better - this is not Uk teachers fault, you don’t make the policies!

I'm not saying I don't agree.

However, your tone rather comes across as how you know all the problems in education and want to tell teachers about them, as if we didn't already know.

The problems in education are well known. However, in spite of them I manage, alongside my amazing and committed colleagues to give the children in our care a brilliant education and a fantastic school experience.

That's why I said to go and see for yourself.

Thanks - I think you’ve explained it all in a much better way than me!

i wasn’t trying to tell teachers anything, I was more hoping I’d get opinions from other parents! I’m always surprised how some (many??) parents aren’t aware (or care??) about these issues

I’d love to volunteer in a school to see for myself, and actually was going to get involved with reading with the children, but since COVID visitors haven’t been allowed

It’s not just you.

Schools vary widely. People who have had contact only with good schools will not understand what you are talking about. I’m familiar with both good and bad primary schools and they have nothing in common. One looks and feels like a prison, is a place that crushes children’s self-esteem, denies them exercise, punishes the whole class eg by withholding breaktime from
30 children because of naughty behaviour by one, regularly lies on paperwork about how children were injured at the school, teaches them virtually nothing and pitches all lesson content at the slowest learner, and churns out underachieving bored children who tend towards either anxiety or bullying behaviour. Staff are demotivated and bullied by the head and most are newly qualified who quit at the end of the year.

The other is a beautiful inspiring place where children are treated with respect, have fun playing with friends, study interesting things in thoughtfully prepared lessons taught by engaged happy teacher, and become extremely physically fit.

You can’t compare the two but on paper they are both good local primary schools.

Choose with care and move house if needed!

Op, we are starting to welcome visitors back into school. Email and offer to support with early reading. They may now be willing to invite you in.

OP how much extra tax are you willing to pay to create this ideal learning environment?