I feel like I have to send my son to nursery because of the health visitor

[TEhCraft]

Ok. I debated posting here because I’ve seen some users often post harsh responses and I just want some understanding and input from other mums and dads.

DH and I have two lovely children. Our Ds is almost 2 and our DD is 5.

We have never had any issues with DD and she has always met all of her milestones. She is a happy, healthy child and there is little to say about her here in this context.
We never sent DD to private nursery (she is now in school) because we used a child minder and MIL and FIL whilst DH and I worked full time.

I am no longer working due to MS, however my husband still works part time. My mum and MIL help out with DS during the week but in January we decided to also send him to a private nursery for 2 days a week. It’s on our road and we thought it would be a good idea.

We’ve since realised it isn’t suiting him or us. We can’t really afford it anymore either. I 100% want to pull him out and so does DH, but our health visitor is making that very difficult. My anxiety is through the roof over this and I’ve no idea what to do about it.

As abit of background - the HV came to do DS’ 2 year check up a month ago. We told her truthfully that we have some concerns as he is showing autistic type traits and he also struggles with his speech. He is mostly none verbal. She told us that she would work with his nursery to come up with a plan to help him and then went out of her way to discuss how amazing his nursery was because apparently she used to work there before she became a HV.

However the issue is - we haven’t found them to be amazing. They rarely give us information on what DS has been doing, they never seem to want to put the time aside to chat to DH and I about how his day has gone (and it’s been this way for weeks now) they’ve never supplied us with photos of him or any evidence as to what he actually does there. On top of all this - we literally cannot afford it because we found out 2 weeks ago that our landlord is selling our current home therefore we are having to move to a more expensive house (luckily we managed to find one, however it’s an extra £350 a month)

He also doesn’t really seem to enjoy nursery and comes out very stressed and over stimulated. I don’t want this anymore for him until he’s older. When he isn’t at nursery, we spend our time taking long walks in the countryside and he attends two extra curricular activities that be really enjoys (football and swimming) It isn’t as though we intend to keep him cooped up as this has never been the case.

So anyway, the reason I’m posting.
I called the HV yesterday to see what was happening as she was supposed to be referring DS for speech therapy (she said it’s a 12 month wait in our area, close to London) I told her on the phone we had to move and then mentioned we want to withdraw DS from nursery as we aren’t really enjoying sending him and we aren’t too pleased with the nursery.

She said that she had always had positive experiences with his nursery and that we should ‘consider’ not withdrawing him because apparently nursery will really help with his speech delay so we could be making him worse by withdrawing him!!!

We cannot afford to keep sending him comfortably, and now I feel that we have to because she didn’t seem happy about us potentially withdrawing him. Obviously this is a text post and you mumsnetters reading were not witness to the call, but she took a really, really annoyed tone with me and made me feel awful for wanting to withdraw DS.

I’m just so Paranoid now that if we withdraw him she will contact social services or something about us because she spent the longest time ranting and raving about how we definitely shouldn’t withdraw him ‘especially as he has delays’ and that it ‘could make things more difficult for him’ She also topped it all off by saying she would be concerned ??? If we withdrew him!
He isn’t even 2 yet. Nursery was supposed to be a fun thing for us all.

I don’t know what to do. My DH is totally unfazed by her call but it has really upset me. I feel like a horrible mother.

I also understand our HV will change once we move areas and again, this is worrying me because will the health visiting service see it as DH and I dislodging plans that they were putting in place for DS? No referral has been made for him yet to speech and language and nothing more has been said about it, but the call with the HV just left a really bad taste in my mouth because she was very aloof and annoyed with me.

We have never had any involvement with social services or any children’s services - both of our children were conceived via IVF and maybe that’s why I get myself as worked up because I’m trying so hard to do what is right for them and it didn’t feel as though the HV was seeing it that way.

Has anyone got any advice or support? Sorry if this is all a little jumbled.

Thanks.

You definitely dont have to listen to the HV. They can be a bit forceful and bullying in my experience. Check if you're entitled to free nursery hours from 2. Youbcould explore a different nursery if thats available to you. He'll get nursery hours when 3 anyway. Push for the SALT referral and continue what youre doing. Lots of reading to him and maybe look at learning games on a tablet.

It sounds like she’s infantilising you. Perhaps because of your disability.

Next time you speak with her remind yourself that you are a capable adult who is voluntarily consulting with another adult. An adult whose paid job is to assist you.

You are aiming for polite but assertive. Client (you) and service provider (her). Keep the conversation focused on what help she is able to provide to you.

Regarding nursery, a flat “we can no longer afford it” is probably easiest.

@LillyDeValley

If you can’t afford it that’s the end of it.

I don’t find it that odd a professional recommending nurseries. Certain nurseries and schools are known for being better with sen then others.

You should be entitled to nursery funding when your child turns 2 though. I would recommend nursery with a good SEN though once he is 2.

yes but it should be more than one and it shouldn't be one that you have previously worked at, also importantly it should be done with a very light touch. There definitely should not be any push back if the parents decide not to take the advice or try the nursery and decide not to continue.

It sounds like she's taken personal offence at you not agreeing that her old workplace is amazing.

She sounds fairly useless anyway, not getting round to doing important parts of her job!

And there's no way that being in a group setting will do more for your child's speech than 1-2-1 with you!

OP have you checked if you can self-refer to SALT? In my area you can do this, and you don’t need any GP or HV involvement.

Will you get free 2 year old nursery funding?

In some areas you can self refer to SALT. Look at Portage too.

Also think about applying for an EHCNA.

Put on your big girl pants and be assertive with her.
Tell her

1. She needs to refer him for speech therapy. Ask her when she will do this and say that if she cannot you will self refer.
2. He is no longer attending this nursery. You will of course be doing lots of activities with him at home.

Be pleasant but firm. Consider getting some support elsewhere. E.g are there any suitable playgroups or sen play groups in your area?
You don't need anyone making life harder for you.

Get her working for you. She will soon disappear.

I've only skim read but depending on your child's needs, if he's eligible for DLA then that automatically entitles him to 15 hours a week nursery funding

What a horrible home visitor. So unprofessional. I'm sorry she's made you feel this way.

Firstly, lots of children aren't speaking at 2.

Second, nursery isn't right for every family or child. I didn't send mine by choice, one of my children also had additional needs causing speech delay and I didn't feel comfortable sending him to group care when he couldn't talk to his carers or communicate with the other children. Our speech pathologist also agreed he would be better served having the 1:1 or 1:2 care he receives at home, more face time, more books, more attuned care giver, more likely for speech attempts to be rewarding and therefore confidence building if it was to their parent at home. Also playing with their sibling, who is more likely to know what they are trying to say, is far more beneficial for speech than spending time with groups of different children who won't stop and get to know how your child communicates.

Non verbal children can get lost in the rumble in group care.

That's the advice we received and that was our experience. I think we made the right choice keeping our son home another year. He thrived and had a great bond with his sibling. I was exhausted looking after him and a newborn through the pandemic but it worked out.

There's no one answer. Your HV is being very rude.

You know your son and your finances. You're not short changing him at all, home might be better for him for now.

Do what you think is right for you and your son. I would say try and go to some groups so he has a chance to interact of others kids his age but otherwise don't worry about it.
Other option is to see if there is a preschool near by that take them younger, ours went to the preschool from just after 2 and think they can be a bit gentler than a private nursery. Honestly though you do what you think is right not a health visitor who has spent so little time with him.

Definitely follow your instincts with nursery.
Look at your councils local offer for SEN preschool children, there may be things available for children not attending nurseries. Use gp for referrals / or refer directly (depends on your area)

She seems to be over involved with that particular nursery for some reason.

I’d ignore.

But our health visitors are attached to our go surgery and if you were still on the go books then the health visitor would still cover you. Mine did and I moved three miles away!

Pull him out! He’s so young. One-to-one speech will help him most! Talk to him/with him constantly, ignore HV and go to GP instead if you’re worried.

Preschool when he’s 3 if it’s socialising you’re thinking of.

I think the HV is letting her own emotional attachment to the nursery cloud her thinking. You’ve got to do what’s right for your entire family.

Could you ring the HV office line rather than her directly and ask to talk it through with a different health visitor for their opinion.

Look online for portage. You can often self refer. They come to you and play with your child each week, to assess and help. Having portage also entitles you to 15 funded hours of nursery a week. However it's totally up to you if you use these hours, and you decide which nursery. Your HV is being unprofessional they are not supposed to recommend a nursery. Could you ask for a different HV?

If nursery isn't suiting him, take him out.

Do you really have a one year old child doing football class?!

Tell the HV to jog on. Do what you know is right for your son.

Just thinking a bit more about this. Are you sure she is an actual Health Visitor and not a Nursery Nurse or a Family Support Worker on the health visiting team?

If she is a qualified health visitor than it just be quite a long time since she worked there. She would have needed to have done a three year nursing degree, then some post qualification employment as a registered nurse before being able to apply to do her Health Visitor training which is another year of training? It must be at least 5 years since she actually worked there if she’s a qualified health visitor.

Why on earth are you listening to the health visitor? Most of them are retired nurses who quit because they couldn’t hack it and now enjoy throwing their opinions around but in my experience the vast majority of their opinions are nonsense. I know so many people who have been upset by them. My own health visitor freely admitted that she went into it because her baby gave her a nervous breakdown and she is basically on a one-woman campaign to get all babies into childcare because she personally believes this is best for the mum’s mental health. I was doing attachment parenting and she had zero idea what that was and very aggressively tried to tell me I was doing it wrong. But she had a nervous breakdown and has troubled relationship with her children, and my mental health is great and I am incredibly close to my children - so why on earth should I take advice from her?!!

I also know a social worker who says that health visitors are constantly ringing her up to complain that they met a mum witn a messy house etc. Social services tell such health visitors to hush and to mind their own business unless a child is in danger.

Anyway. Parent how seems best to you and ignore interfering people - especially your HV who seems obsessed with her former employer 🧐

Most of them are retired nurses

Not true, you have to maintain your nursing registration to practice as a health visitor.

Your HV is overstepping. Take your DS out of nursery if that’s what is right for your family. You don’t need to explain yourself to her. I would clarify her stance that she won’t make the referral to SLT if you take your DS out of nursery and when she does, ask her to put that in writing… I think you’ll find she won’t.

My DS had autistic traits when he was 2 - wouldn’t make eye contact, no talking - he’s been on the SLT waiting list for a year and we went private because we were so worried. The SLT said he had a speech disorder and some issues socially/attention but didn’t believe it was autism. He is 3 in a month and all of sudden has started talking clearly… this happens, especially in boys. They probably won’t assess your son until he’s 3 anyway. My son obviously had social and speech delays but he’s catching up now. Don’t despair, the changes you’ll see between 2-3 are amazing.

@TEhCraft your HV has a minor point that having to talk to friends and other adults can help speech but it really depends on the setting and at 2, I doubt the research is clear, I assume you're going to take him to play groups and the like? The benefits of nursery for speech can easily be offset by the downsides of unmet sensory and other needs related to ASD.

You can self refer to OT, SLT and they can refer to paediatricians if they have further concerns, all worth doing if you suspect ASD. The SN chat here is good too.

My lo had a speech delay and never went to nursery, u til 3.5 despite hv saying the same. We accessed salt by my self referral. The hv service was useless tbh. I also self referred for audiology testing, as I'd recommend you did and had a referral back to paediatrics for my lo as we'd had concerns about delays from young. To then be formally diagnosed with autism.

Fwiw, nursery was very stressful and was not in their best interests.

Small group activities like singing groups, children centre groups, forest school, playgroups, all where was accompanied by me, were fantastic for my lo.

In my experience, hv should offer all sorts of support. They could add nothing more than what I was with my Los delays, including food, sensory, motor skills, potty training etc. Ignire what she's said, she can be as concerned as she likes. Your child is your child to decide for.