I feel like I have to send my son to nursery because of the health visitor

[TEhCraft]

Ok. I debated posting here because I’ve seen some users often post harsh responses and I just want some understanding and input from other mums and dads.

DH and I have two lovely children. Our Ds is almost 2 and our DD is 5.

We have never had any issues with DD and she has always met all of her milestones. She is a happy, healthy child and there is little to say about her here in this context.
We never sent DD to private nursery (she is now in school) because we used a child minder and MIL and FIL whilst DH and I worked full time.

I am no longer working due to MS, however my husband still works part time. My mum and MIL help out with DS during the week but in January we decided to also send him to a private nursery for 2 days a week. It’s on our road and we thought it would be a good idea.

We’ve since realised it isn’t suiting him or us. We can’t really afford it anymore either. I 100% want to pull him out and so does DH, but our health visitor is making that very difficult. My anxiety is through the roof over this and I’ve no idea what to do about it.

As abit of background - the HV came to do DS’ 2 year check up a month ago. We told her truthfully that we have some concerns as he is showing autistic type traits and he also struggles with his speech. He is mostly none verbal. She told us that she would work with his nursery to come up with a plan to help him and then went out of her way to discuss how amazing his nursery was because apparently she used to work there before she became a HV.

However the issue is - we haven’t found them to be amazing. They rarely give us information on what DS has been doing, they never seem to want to put the time aside to chat to DH and I about how his day has gone (and it’s been this way for weeks now) they’ve never supplied us with photos of him or any evidence as to what he actually does there. On top of all this - we literally cannot afford it because we found out 2 weeks ago that our landlord is selling our current home therefore we are having to move to a more expensive house (luckily we managed to find one, however it’s an extra £350 a month)

He also doesn’t really seem to enjoy nursery and comes out very stressed and over stimulated. I don’t want this anymore for him until he’s older. When he isn’t at nursery, we spend our time taking long walks in the countryside and he attends two extra curricular activities that be really enjoys (football and swimming) It isn’t as though we intend to keep him cooped up as this has never been the case.

So anyway, the reason I’m posting.
I called the HV yesterday to see what was happening as she was supposed to be referring DS for speech therapy (she said it’s a 12 month wait in our area, close to London) I told her on the phone we had to move and then mentioned we want to withdraw DS from nursery as we aren’t really enjoying sending him and we aren’t too pleased with the nursery.

She said that she had always had positive experiences with his nursery and that we should ‘consider’ not withdrawing him because apparently nursery will really help with his speech delay so we could be making him worse by withdrawing him!!!

We cannot afford to keep sending him comfortably, and now I feel that we have to because she didn’t seem happy about us potentially withdrawing him. Obviously this is a text post and you mumsnetters reading were not witness to the call, but she took a really, really annoyed tone with me and made me feel awful for wanting to withdraw DS.

I’m just so Paranoid now that if we withdraw him she will contact social services or something about us because she spent the longest time ranting and raving about how we definitely shouldn’t withdraw him ‘especially as he has delays’ and that it ‘could make things more difficult for him’ She also topped it all off by saying she would be concerned ??? If we withdrew him!
He isn’t even 2 yet. Nursery was supposed to be a fun thing for us all.

I don’t know what to do. My DH is totally unfazed by her call but it has really upset me. I feel like a horrible mother.

I also understand our HV will change once we move areas and again, this is worrying me because will the health visiting service see it as DH and I dislodging plans that they were putting in place for DS? No referral has been made for him yet to speech and language and nothing more has been said about it, but the call with the HV just left a really bad taste in my mouth because she was very aloof and annoyed with me.

We have never had any involvement with social services or any children’s services - both of our children were conceived via IVF and maybe that’s why I get myself as worked up because I’m trying so hard to do what is right for them and it didn’t feel as though the HV was seeing it that way.

Has anyone got any advice or support? Sorry if this is all a little jumbled.

Thanks.

Also to add - the health visitor told me on the phone she ‘hadn’t gotten round’ to making the referral to speech and language yet as she wanted to speak to the nursery first and DS’ GP. She then added she ‘can’t’ speak to the nursery and get him help if we withdraw him. I’m now genuinely concerned she is seeing this as a safeguarding issue when we literally just cant afford to send him anymore

Pull him out of nursery if your son is not happy. The HV has no legal force to send your child to nursery. See your GP for a referral or better ask for a different HV.

You don’t even have to see health visitors if you don’t want to; it’s entirely optional. So you definitely don’t have to listen to them.

It sounds like withdrawing would be the best thing for your son and your family, so do that and ignore the HV pressure – and try not to worry. You can’t disrupt plans for your DS if none have been made and she hasn’t even made a referral.

Bottom line you can't afford it end of.

However I would ask about a council nursery for once he turns 2, on the basis that he needs extra support with language.

It doesn't sound like she sees it as a safeguarding issue, but more that it's not as easy to get support if not in some sort of setting. If he is unhappy and you dislike the nursery then don't send him though.

Definitely pull him out of nursery.
You aren’t obliged to see the HV! She’s not the kid police. You parent how you see fit,
She can provide you support whether he’s at nursery or not. You’re the parent holding the cards- don’t feel pressured by her presence. Xx

Ignore her. It's an optional service meant to help..Stop nursery. He's potentially got years of stress ahead like you say, let him enjoy his walks.

First off, breath. You’re doing a good job and making the decision for the right reasons, there is no point keeping him in a setting you aren’t happy with even if your financial circumstances hadn’t changed. Secondly even if the HV raised concerns, there aren’t any that are viable. You’re still accessing social experiences with him and unless they’re proposing to pay for it they can’t spend your money for you.

My advice would be to remove your child from the nursery as you wish then put it in writing (well personally I would word it as a complaint) to the director of nursing for the HV department something along the lines of you being unhappy with the health visitors approach towards you, and that whilst you of course understand the benefit to your child of mixing with others in an educational setting that this setting isn’t meeting his needs nor do you feel it is working with you to provide a service that is helping his development. In addition to this you are paying for it and as already explained due to a change in circumstances will not longer have the funds to do so going forwards and that by telling you it will be deemed a concern if you withdraw him you would like them to clarify what concern that would be as you are still accessing clubs that meet his social needs which you feel is more beneficial than paying for a nursery place that isn’t working with or for the benefits of your child. In addition you were told that a referral for speech therapy would be put forward but it hasn’t been actioned and this is more of a concern in relation to your child's development as there is a waiting list meaning that your child’s access to help is being delayed due to the HV inaction which is especially concerning when she hasn’t been able to offer any ongoing or alternative support for your child that doesn’t involve you as a family placing yourself into financial hardship. Finally as the HV has stressed how important and integral she feels accessing a nursery would be to your child’s development but isn’t financially accessible to you, it would be appreciated if they could help you explore, direct and help you to access the funding that is available to you that will enable you to access services that help your child’s development and address their concerns.

Some posters a missing Op is worried about his speech or lack of speech. So why consider cutting out the HV who could potentially help?

I think talk to him as much as possible, point things out what's that? Let him attempt car then you repeat Yes car.

Thank you for all of your responses. I feel so much better. I’m just so on edge because the HV seemed less than impressed and kept saying how concerned she was. DH and I constantly try our best for our children and family so it really hurt to hear someone say she was concerned over us not sending our son to something that is OPTIONAL as he isn’t even 2 yet.

Our GP surgery and hospital will be staying the same when we move (as will DDs school as it was already out of area) so would much change anyway on the referral front? (if the HV has made one at this stage) I’m not sure how all of this works.
We are moving to the next small village but it’s far enough out that I’m pretty sure our current HV won’t cover the area.

mommyspeechtherapy.com/?page_id=55

Also check out this website, my dd’s speech therapist used to set our homework using the sheets from here, it also has blogs with advice on how to help develop speech too.

@Dinoteeth

Some posters a missing Op is worried about his speech or lack of speech. So why consider cutting out the HV who could potentially help?

I think talk to him as much as possible, point things out what's that? Let him attempt car then you repeat Yes car.

It doesn't sound like the health visitor is helping at all. It sounds like she has a vested interest in this particular nursery which she shouldn't - if they don't like the nursery she could help them find an alternative or recommend ways to help his speech at home. It's not the only option and it's certainly not compulsory to attend nursery. And it's definitely not OK to imply that parents will be in trouble for not sending their child to nursery.

The HV should be referring to Speech and Language and helping in other ways but that's not going to happen if Op decides to opt out of the HV service.
Opting out isn't exactly going to help

I'm surprised she was even concerned about his speech if he's not even 2.

Please don't stress about this - there is no way social services would be interested in you pulling your son out of an optional service. Did you tell her you couldn't actually afford it? It doesn't matter how great she thinks the nursery is, if you haven't got the funds you haven't got the funds.

Don't let anyone make you doubt your parenting when you know you're doing a good job - I'd just ignore her.

My GS didn't speak at all till he was about 3 - 3.5, weirdly he could say the alphabet and count really early - but no actual words. He's being assessed for ASD at the moment but from 4 year old his speech massively improved - he never shuts up these days!

The SLT can happen at your home, or at a local centre - they don't need to be in a nursery setting; plus, with the waiting lists he's likely to be in school nursery anyway before he gets seen.

Stop stressing you know what's best for your boy

@Dinoteeth

The HV should be referring to Speech and Language and helping in other ways but that's not going to happen if Op decides to opt out of the HV service. Opting out isn't exactly going to help

You can self-refer to speech therapy.

Absolutely pull him out. Your life is your choice and anything the hv says is just advice.

Anything the hv says is just advice.

You can take or leave advice.

You can do at home any of the recommended planned items she has for him.

There are likely some free groups around you can take him to as well if you are comfortable.

All the best

DD1 was speech delayed. She's fine

Just so you know speech therapists consider it normal until 5!!! As long as there is some progress. Does he say some words? Are you concerned about his hearing? What you can do is trying to find the sounds in his babbling: find the z, t, v, f...... m, b and p tend to universally be the first ones so look for the others.

And I agree with PP, self refer to the speech therapy and dismiss the HV. Have you checked the family hubs near you? They seem to have changed a little but they had baby groups led by a speech therapist before.

Totally understand that the HV is thinking that being around peers could help stimulate language but there are plenty of other ways for him to socialise (you mention there are other activities that he does). No need to stay with the nursery if it doesn’t suit him or you.

Phone the GP tomorrow and ask for a speech referral. If GP tries to fob you off tell GP that HV hasn't done it. And that you'd like it done immediately please. And tell GP how you feel about HV.
She sounds overinvested and unprofessional.

I was also interested to read concerns about this speech. I have two boys in my family (both second children) who didn’t speak much before they were 3. One couldn’t say more than 10 real words when he was 3. The GP said this is very common for younger children. This boy “used” his older sister as a translator and she did all the talking for him. She used to say “Bill (not real name ) wants this” etc. He is 13 now and his speech is fine!

If he doesn’t like nursery and it’s financially challenging, don’t send him. He can always go to pre-school when you get the free hours. He is still very young.

If the HV was that concerned she would have done the SALT referral by now. Ignore her. Once you've moved see your new HV and talk to her about SALT. You can also look for a local SALT drop in or something like that. However often they won't get involved so young.

Both my DS had delayed speech due to glue ear. The HV here sent us to this site, which has a very useful series of questions by age you can work through to see if there is likely to be a problem ican.org.uk/i-cans-talking-point/progress-checker-home/ .

If there are concerns about speech delay, the first step for my 2 was a referral to audiology to check for hearing issues and specifically glue ear. They don't have to had lots of ear infections to have glue ear or even colds, DS2 hadn't had any. Depending on how bad it is, it also doesn't have to mean they can't hear and understand you, both my DSs had good understanding. It can just mean they don't quite hear the consonants right so struggle to reproduce them, particularly as exactly how they hear them fluctuates from day to day (Google high frequency hearing loss for more information). If you have concerns about autism, I'd have thought it's even more worth ruling out glue ear as it can actually cause similar behaviours.

If you contact your GP to ask about speech delay, also ask for a referral to audiology for a hearing test. I also found it helped that I could say I'd done the Talking Point assessment and it had highlighted there were problems.

Round here, we can self refer to speech and language therapy and the details are online so it might be worth googling speech and language for your council to check yours. Ours still isn't really seeing under 5s those, I get one phone call every 4 months or so, they have never seen him in person. If you need more support than that, it's a case of paying privately - even my friend with a 3 year old with suspected autism who only has a few single words doesn't get more.

If it is glue ear and it doesn't clear, they can fit grommits. It's another one where it's worth getting in early as the wait lists are long though. Round here, there's a 2 month ish wait for that first audiology appointment. If that shows a problem, they get you back 3 months later to check if the glue ear is persisting. Only if it is, will they refer you to ENT. We were referred back in January and told it's about a 9 month wait.

Look for a salt drop in.
Ask your hv to make the referral
Pull him out of nursery, he’s not yet two. It is easier to get help if they are in a setting but they are not going to actually give you any speech therapy until he’s nearly 3 so it doesn’t matter until nearer then.
Look for a preschool some take children from 2. The hours are shorter but it’s cheaper. Ring your local councils early years department for information. Also ask about the free hours from 2.

It sounds like the HV has some concerns about your DS and believes that if he stays in Nursery these will be dealt with appropriately. You’ve told her you want to withdraw him because you’re less than impressed with the nursery and she’s tried to reassure you by saying what a great place it is and how it would be a shame for your ds if you took him out. Did you actually tell her that you’re not able to afford it anymore? Would you feel happier if your DS went to a childminder like your DD did?
In terms of costs, when your DS is entitled to some free hours, consider a childminder. Socialising with others is really important, and with you having MS, would you still be fine with looking after a lively 2 year old on the days he is currently in nursery? It would be a lot to expect your parents to take on more childcare.

I'd pull him out, get help via the GP and then apply for 2 year old funding and send him to a CM.