White passing children

[Nc4post99]

My children are mixed race, south Asian and white. Father asian (Muslim) and myself white European. Our children are very very fair, think mac nc 10. They visibly look very different to DH side of the family and to anyone passing them on the street they’d be considered white.

I’m not close to DH family as they don’t really think too fondly of me due to my ethnic background. There is a very much a pulling in both directions from both sides of our family to be 100% one way or the other- they are, we all are in fact VvLC with both sides of the family for these reasons.

I’ve tried chatting to DH about it but he’s just a bumble through sort of guy and doesn’t think he’s experienced racism so thinks it’s NBD, but obviously being white passing gives a certain amount of privilege.

I’ve googled and not found any resources to help my children understand the complexities of their identity. Does anyone have an recommendations?

@Dairymilk50 I’m mixed raced myself. I’m assuming you are too and that how you know what’s offensive to us?
OP said her children look white. If that’s true then yes they will move through the world with the ease that white people do. It’s possible that they don’t actually appear as white as she thinks and that’s a different story but she says they do.

I can spot black people, however white presenting, a mile off so you are taking to the wrong person here.
I know from my own experience as someone with a palatable presentation of blackness the privileges that brings. “Pretty for a black girl” ,”ooh what unusual eyes” “aren’t you exotic” etc etc. My life is easier with my half European features. It would be ten fold if I appeared white.

@AHungryCaterpillar it's complex isn't it. For me it boils down to how you have been raised and what your around will hugely influence your views and how you think things. Stem back what did your dad teach you, you were colour wise? Were you around grandparents? Have you travelled to where your dad is from?

I cannot tell you what to teach your kids but tbh at 10/11.... I would personally correct my child.

I feel with race people should use the terms they are biologically other wise it becomes complicated. My aunt has 5 children and they are ALL different shades by quite a lot kids tbh if I didn't know my own cousins I would assume she had had them with multiple fathers. They all have the same dad.

My mixed race aunt also got married and had another child with a morrocan man. My cousin is pale and has taken my nanas gene and her hair is bone straight like my nana.... her skin is pale yes but she does not look white though you can see she is a mixed person.... I guess it varies like the whole MEGAN MARKLE to me she doesn't look white... pale yes but then again my mother is not much darker than her so it's what you are exposed to also.

What would be more problematic for them (not the best choice of word) would be if they go on to produce their own children, maybe with a white partner, who look more Asian than they do. That's something you ought to discuss at some time in the future.

@Daydreamsinsantafe *It’s possible that they don’t actually appear as white as she thinks and that’s a different story but she says they do.
*

You hit the nail on the head I absolutely agree with you.

Biologically I am 3/4 but I view myself as black
I have taken the hair and skin tone I would say I would be put in the camp of a light skinned black person. I think what I was trying to point out though is not just how light or dark you are... its your hair type... and facial features. I'm 1 of 4 siblings and my brother is the darkest of us all YET he has smallish lips and a straight pointy nose taken from my nans side of the family... he has more English features than my mixed race mum and she's pale imcomparison to him.

Again I agree with you..life would be easier but certainly not easy. My sister in law thought the same about her white colleagues..... all seemed well and she thought she was fitting in wonderfully (mixed race blonde hair and green eyes) obvious she is mixed though.

I think there was a slight issue (nothing major at work). The colleague turned around... and said bluntly we will blame you because your BLACK.... its ironic isn't....

My mum was a single mum, and my dad wasn’t around growing up (although we are in contact now) neither was his family (live in the Caribbean) tbf to my mum she did learn to cook food from my dads culture and she did listen to music/went to college to learn to care for our hair, she did a lot to help us embrace our dads side. I grew up in S London so very diverse but for me I think it’s when I started secondary school everyone use to tell me constantly I was white, didn’t believe I was mixed, use to be told I was lying (like how people are accusing of black fishing now I guess that’s what they though I was doing!) As an adult people that meet me day to day just assume I’m white (I’ve had someone filling in forms with me recently when we got to the ethnicity bit she said “white British?”)

@Justkeeppedaling precisely genes can skip..

One of my dc is completely white with blue eyes (gets mistaken for Polish) and the other 2 are clearly mixed. We made the Prophet's (pbuh) last sermon a cornerstone in our house:

"All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a White has no superiority over a Black nor a Black has any superiority over a White except by piety and good action".

I found the mixed ones are more accepted as Muslims both in the community and out. My daughter wears hijab and has a very strong Muslim name so I don't see much privilege here in the UK, but I imagine it would be very strong should they go to ME.

@Dairymilk50 yes we are definitely on the same page but I think you are thinking about black mixed raced people. In truth the gene is much stronger and it’s very very rare that you can’t see it somewhere. It’s not the case with Asian people. Hair for example is the same texture. Nose shape not too dissimilar. It’s just not as easy to spot. I think OP is likely right that her children present as white. I’ve seen it often with that particular mix.

You’re also correct that identity is very much a product of your upbringing. I know I am mixed raced but I identify very heavily as black. My DH is Asian and our children will make their own minds up as they grow. The eldest identifies as black.
The key is ultimately to Immerse children in their cultures as much as possible and let them conclude what they will. In this case OP doesn’t have family and so it’s more complex.

Is it just down to upbringing though? I have “half” siblings (my mum had children with another man who is African but we were brought up together) but my siblings identify as black, but they are a lot darker than me, have Afro hair, dark skin etc same up bringing 🤔

@AHungryCaterpillar

Is it just down to upbringing though? I have “half” siblings (my mum had children with another man who is African but we were brought up together) but my siblings identify as black, but they are a lot darker than me, have Afro hair, dark skin etc same up bringing 🤔

I'm glad OP started this thread. Yes you are right about mixed race Asian to be fair I don't l know lots... I remember 2 sisters at school and they definitely appeared to be a mix of Asian. Like another poster though I can spot someone who is mixed... or Romanian for example. I've worked within a Jewish setting.. you can tell I think and like Irish people also. I guess I could be wrong at times though.

I have half siblings also... I believe it is predominantly how your raised and what your around.

Having a male figure in the house makes a vast difference. My nan raised her kids similar to your mum... single parent but my mum was exposed to her dad on weekends by his wife tbh. Food music and so on. My mother could not cook any type of carribean food before meeting my dad... as her mother never cooked it.

Do you think your siblings use the term black because that's what their dad taught them from young? Individually we are taught something from young so perhaps that's it?

I’m not sure really, both our dads weren’t around and she never met her dad at all, whereas mine was around in the background but didn’t really have contact with him, we went to different schools and she had a good group of black friends there who all accepted her as one of them so I guess that made a difference, whereas I was clearly told I was not. That’s all I can think of.

This is an interesting? sad? video on white vs mixed. Some comments by the 'guessers' could be perceived as racist or discriminatory.

[quote Midlifemusings]This is an interesting? sad? video on white vs mixed. Some comments by the 'guessers' could be perceived as racist or discriminatory.

[/quote] That was really interesting! So it goes to show you can’t always tell.

It goes to show that those three ‘guessers’ can’t always tell.
Other than the blonde half Native American the rest are clearly not fully white.

@Daydreamsinsantafe

It goes to show that those three ‘guessers’ can’t always tell. Other than the blonde half Native American the rest are clearly not fully white.

I thought way more of them was white tbh

Are they practicing Muslims or not?

I just watched that. I thought it was pretty obvious that they weren't white in most cases tbh. Wasn't sure about the Sicilian guy at the end, and I'd have guessed that the blonde half native American was white.

I think the video also highlights the difference between ethnicity and how someone identifies. I saw a really interesting documentary on a family where some of the family identifies as black and some of the family identifies as white - despite the same ethnic heritage.

There are also many videos of people raised to believe they were white or not white and later DNA provded otherwise. It is a very complex issue when you have skin colour / features, race, ethnicity, heritage, culture, environment, attitudes, identity etc that all shape who someone is and how others respond to them.

I was surprised that the second guy along was mixed race black and white, I wouldn’t have guessed he was half black at all!

@AHungryCaterpillar

I was surprised that the second guy along was mixed race black and white, I wouldn’t have guessed he was half black at all!

I didn't think he was white but I thought he was going to say that he had one parent from the middle East or something. I didn't expect him to say that one parent was black. It was so interesting when he said that only black people ever identify that in him.

Yes that’s what I thought, I didn’t think he looked fully white but never would have guessed his dad was black. But I guess it’s how some people say Meghan Markle looks white, I can’t see how, she mixed race to me but there are clearly a lot of people who think she looks white. My friend said she wouldn’t have known if she hadn’t been told, she would have assumed she was white.

@AHungryCaterpillar

Yes that’s what I thought, I didn’t think he looked fully white but never would have guessed his dad was black. But I guess it’s how some people say Meghan Markle looks white, I can’t see how, she mixed race to me but there are clearly a lot of people who think she looks white. My friend said she wouldn’t have known if she hadn’t been told, she would have assumed she was white.

I think a lot of white people just see others as white by default. They simply don't have the awareness to notice. I'm ashamed to say that I used to be like that myself. I had a very good friend who was half Chinese, and when I think about it now, it was so glaringly obvious, but I was really surprised when she told me. Now, as the parent of a mixed race child, I tend to notice so much more.

My children are mixed afghan and English.

My daughter looks completely afghan. Olive skin, brown eyes and brown hair.

My son is double of me. Blonde hair, pale skins blue eyes.

He's only 2. And my daughter is 6 but I get alot of raised eyebrows and "oh are they the same dad questions!" And it's quite evident dh side favour my daughter because of this.

So following this thread!

Also my daughter has a western sounding Arabic name and my son a proper Asian Muslim name lol!

Do you realise that there are entire countries whose inhabitants are white-skinned and Muslim? Look at Albania, for example.

Saying you can't be white and a Muslim is as ridiculous as saying you have to be white to be a Christian.