White passing children

[Nc4post99]

My children are mixed race, south Asian and white. Father asian (Muslim) and myself white European. Our children are very very fair, think mac nc 10. They visibly look very different to DH side of the family and to anyone passing them on the street they’d be considered white.

I’m not close to DH family as they don’t really think too fondly of me due to my ethnic background. There is a very much a pulling in both directions from both sides of our family to be 100% one way or the other- they are, we all are in fact VvLC with both sides of the family for these reasons.

I’ve tried chatting to DH about it but he’s just a bumble through sort of guy and doesn’t think he’s experienced racism so thinks it’s NBD, but obviously being white passing gives a certain amount of privilege.

I’ve googled and not found any resources to help my children understand the complexities of their identity. Does anyone have an recommendations?

@Nc4post99

My husband just reminded me that Jason Mohammad is someone else who has publicly explored some of these identity dilemmas as he has experienced them.

And take heart, this is just a reminder. Remember Sahih al-Bukhari 6416, we are just strangers in in this world. It's not our home anyways.

@Nc4post99 yes you’re right. I don’t have any knowledge of your families other than the information you have provided here but you do say there is racism & however lc you are it’s enough. My white family have left scars that are far deeper than society in general has though what they said & did was far less dramatic.
I wouldn’t have my mother around my DC for even half an hour because that’s enough opportunity for someone like her.

What I also see, after reading back, is that you asked about identity not racism so I apologise for that. My personal experience is not as white passing so my input on that front is invalid really.
Others who are are better equipped to comment.

That's a really helpful perspective for me, thanks @Daydreamsinsantafe
We haven't experienced overt direct racism from either side. In fact after a very rocky few years more on a religious basis than a race basis, we have come together remarkably well. There is subtle, indirect racism, more from Asian to White, and actually I have a comparatively good experience to the point I had discounted it as difficult for my kids. Your perspective on it being much more heightened in impact because it comes from family, who I guess are "supposed" to love us unconditionally, suggests I should be more alert for this. Thank you.

Personally, I can't bear the phrase "white passing". I know you don't mean it like this in the slightest, OP, but for me it always implies that people who don't look white have somehow failed.

My dd is a similar mix to yours, but it is clear from her appearance that her heritage is mixed and she is constantly asked about it because people find it hard to place her. Thankfully she finds this funny rather than "othering".

I think identity for mixed race kids can be a very complex and challenging question. We have tried very hard to expose dd to both sides of her heritage and to emphasise that she has two cultures rather than being "half" of anything, but tbh, she has really struggled with issues around her identity - even though she is immensely proud of her dual heritage and wouldn't change it for anything, it has been hard for her at times to know exactly where she fits in, as she doesn't feel that she is "fully" white or Asian. Added to that, neither DH nor I share her experience of being mixed race, and she doesn't have any siblings, so she is the only one in our family to face these specific questions. We try to understand, but we don't share her experiences.

I know that dd really values the opportunities that she has to talk about this kind of stuff with other mixed race friends, even when the mix of races is totally different- there seem to be some common strands in their experience.

Thank you to @dottypencilcase for linking to the BBC video. Will watch with interest.

It is an important topic. There are many white passing kids of mixed ethnic heritage who struggle with identity as they grow up. They often feel they can't really identity or aren't accepted with their non white ethnicity as they don't look the part and haven't had the struggles that someone who is a visible minority. They can be seen as appropriating culture even though it is their own. Their challenges are unique to being white passing - it isn't the same experience as being white or as being not white. Ethnicity and culture are not defined by skin tone.

I know a white woman that has two kids (teens now) that are 50% black and 50% white. Both have black dads (two different men). One teen clearly has black features and darker skin tones and the other teen looks white and you really don't see any features unless you are looking for them. She also has a younger daughter who is only 25% black and that child has more black features than the older teen who is 50% black. Her kids have all struggled in different ways.

I’m not keen on white passing either as it kind of implies to be white you must be pure. I would describe your kids as mixed ethnic background as I do mine. Having a mixed ethnic background is very common these days and not something that worries me.

The concept of racial passing has a long history
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passing_(racial_identity)

Not got any info but sort of get what you mean. My best friend is 1/4 black afro Caribbean. Her father is half black afro Caribbean but is very dark, tbh you wouldn't think he was mixed race, you would assume he was black. My best friend is blonde and white with brown eyes. You would never, ever assume she was mixed race.

Like other people have said, racist stuff has been said in front of her when people assume she is white, which tbh she is very non confrontational so has said nothing. She has been challenged when she has ticked the box "mixed white/black afro Caribbean" at school, doctors, job applications etc. People assume her dad isn't her biological father (despite the fact that they look very alike physically just one is black and one is white). Its an interesting issue.

Not kids but I am mixed race (black/white) and “white passing” don’t like that saying either, it’s difficult because no one has ever accepted that I am mixed race, in school I was called “the Turkish girl” 🤷‍♀️ Even now my children don’t believe I am mixed and say that I’m not mixed I’m white. My children’s father is black and my daughter has started asking why she isn’t white like me 🤦🏻

So this is the book you need: Wish We Knew What to Say, Talking to Children about Race by Pragya Agarwal. I have found it so hard to find mate

My children are mixed race, i am white British and very fair, husband is north African Muslim and dark skinned. Our children have obviously Muslim names....
There has been occasions of conflict within the family, my husband's family are farmers who live in a rural village in their country and are extremely conservative. My family are British C of E.

It is further complicated by the fact my daughter has much darker skin than my son and looks very much non white whereas my son would 'pass' for white, so much so that there have been comments that they don't look like siblings (which have irritated me).

I think the issue of identity for mixed race children growing up is complex but i am quite conscious to try and not over think the issue and make it such a big deal for them.
My daughter asks why she is Muslim and non of her friends are and i keep my answers simple and straightforward. I don't want her to become defined by being 'the only Muslim in her class' (she's at a small C of E school) or to think she is 'different' from a young age.

Why do you feel that you have to 'do' anything about their identity?
We as parents are more conscious of the issues than anyone else around them will be.

It’s not so much about identity although that does for part of it I suppose but specifically any resources around privilege for white passing children, ive googled and can’t really find any.
Worth saying they both have v Muslim and Asian sounding names so I doubt they will have total white privilege

Different ethnic mix, but to some extent I’m one of your DC grown up.

The white privilege really is fleeting once people have clocked your name or noticed something subtle in your appearance or whatever.

I would concentrate on supporting their connection with their Muslim/whichever Asian country heritage.

I’m mixed race white/Asian. I’ve only heard the term white passing recently and I really don’t like it.
I’ve generally found being mixed race a fairly privileged position to be in. The ability to genuinely see 3 different views from the cultures of backgrounds that you represent is a valuable skill to have and can be used really positively throughout life. Generally you are always the minority because even if there are other ethnicities in the room, mixed race is the smallest minority group.
Culture is an interesting point, I would say don’t overthink it too much. Culture is what surrounds you, your family unit is, the people around you, that is your culture. I’m grateful my parents exposed me and my siblings to all kinds of people. Diversity is our baseline.

How old are your kids OP? You can try type in book dynasty on Instagram they do a fab range of ethnic minority books.

This is a relative question here OP but do your kids really look white passing? Most people you can tell if they are 1/4 mixed 1/2 mixed due to facial features it's not just about the shade of your skin.

As long as you raise your children to be aware of their own race I think that's what is important.

@AHungryCaterpillar

Not kids but I am mixed race (black/white) and “white passing” don’t like that saying either, it’s difficult because no one has ever accepted that I am mixed race, in school I was called “the Turkish girl” 🤷‍♀️ Even now my children don’t believe I am mixed and say that I’m not mixed I’m white. My children’s father is black and my daughter has started asking why she isn’t white like me 🤦🏻

I think when kids say things like this it must be a child thing. It's interesting how they think and what they perceive as colour. I can remember bathing DS... around 3ish and he was asking what colour my uncles were.. and my father.. (doesn't really see them) he was asking in doubt I compared him to my brother (who he does see) to try and explain that my father is the same. Throughout toddler stages and a bit older 3-5ish DS views me as "different" that's crazy to me because when I look at him and me we are similar skin tone in MY view but apparently to him I'm not black like him and his dad.... he has seemed to have outgrown that theory now and has gained a better understanding.

@Daydreamsinsantafe

If they are white passing then what would they need help with? Being white, or appearing so, is unproblematic. They will move through the world with ease. Is your concern how they identify because that’s very much up to them.

Im mixed raced but not white passing and any problems I have ever faced have been about the half of me that isn’t white.

I think this is appalling and it's highly offensive to mixed people imparticular. How ignorant can you be?

Move through life with ease? When you are a light skinned child... People will see your parents and people will who know your actual race.... so some where along the lines you will not pass through life with ease. Perhaps easier... to some extent if you are 1/4 of a particular mix but most definitely not 1/2 or 3/4 .
Usually despite the paleness of someone's skin if you are a mix of ethnic origin you can see someone is. Hair, features or sometimes you can just see someone looks different compared to Caucasian.

My children are mixed race and clearly have an Indian appearance. They have experienced racism, which makes cultural identity harder so the following may not apply to your children, I don't know?

Certain topics in school don't feel like they are tackled with care and sensitivity. One of my sons has had to sit in a classroom with his racist bully, learning about Rosa Parks and MLK.

No though has been given to the impact on my children. Rosa Parks was in primary school, he came home distraught as he didn't know where his dad and I could have sat on the bus, and where would him and his sibling be.

In senior school RE has had a very heavy focus on MLK and American history. Just one example is a documentary they had to watch mentioned about mixed race children often being aborted during that time period.

Then they went to lunch, the teacher not giving a damn, or any kind of pastoral care to the children this might affect or any thoughts of the ammunition she'd handed the bully. When I've spoken to them the teacher hadn't considered how this might have felt to a none white child.

Thank you @lunar1 for your account of your child’s school experience and to OP and other posters.

My background is similar to some described on this thread. I don’t even know what language to use any more. ‘Mixed’ just doesn’t feel comfortable and what is ‘passing’? What I pass as or think I pass as varies so much with context.

The difficult questions found on this thread are very important to me.

I am white assuming and I have found this thread upsetting too, I have experienced racism from people of my own asian race and been not allowed into my community because of it. On my white side they have been racist towards my family, going abroad people have been racist towards me and not my mother.

People assuming my mother was my maid growing up was difficult. Teach your kids about their heritage yours and your husband's teach them as much as you can.

Sounds like both your families have issues.
You should sort it out.
A kid is not 100% one thing or another
Your kid is a mix. Which should be celebrated
With both cultures present / both cultural foods and traditions etc.

Saying no to easter isnt gonna solve things. Just make it worse.
A kid should know it can be more then one identity or background. Diversity should br celebrated not boxed in

Why do you feel that you have to 'do' anything about their identity?
We as parents are more conscious of the issues than anyone else around them will be.

It's an interesting question, but I think my dd's single biggest criticism of us as parents would be that we didn't "do" enough to help her navigate her mixed identity. I think DH and I both just sort of assumed that it was a huge positive having access to two cultures and we always celebrated the diversity in our family, embraced both cultures etc. I don't think either of us really had a concept of the challenges that dd might face as a mixed race child with a foot in two camps with regard to working out exactly where she "fits" and so we didn't really talk about the fact that she might struggle with aspects of her identity. It is only as she has got older that those questions have emerged and I realise that we could have spent more time exploring those issues when she was younger.

I think it's easy for parents of a single ethnicity to over simplify this complex topic. As a white parent, I certainly worried about the potential for my dd to experience racism (and sadly she has) but I don't think I anticipated the challenges that she would experience around her own identity because that stuff is rarely talked about.

I guess what I'm saying is that being of a single ethnicity comes with its own privileges, because those questions about identity don't necessarily arise in quite the same way.

On the other hand, I think there are huge privileges that can go along with being mixed race and having that diversity as a "baseline", as a pp mentioned above.

My focus as a parent was always on the latter - on the positive aspects of being mixed race - and I failed to recognise some of the challenges until my dd talking about the other side of it.

There's a bookshop called Mirror Me Write that gives information about children's books covering aspects of diversity.
Eg. This one appears to be about a mixed race child asking about being Muslim.

www.mirrormewrite.com/shop/p/we-are-muslim

Some books might be on ebay / youtube / at the library.

‘South Asian’ isn’t one homogenous race. Even amongst families people can have different ‘races’. For example a lot of ‘full race’ Gujarati / Punjabi / Bengali / Bangladeshi / Pakistani ppl have light / coloured eyes, white skin & blonde / light brown hair. These features are often more common kn amongst Muslim families due to cousin-marriage. South Asian Muslims are also, traditionally, more welcoming of Muslims of other races. Your DH’s family’s ‘problem’ with you would be more that you’re not Muslim than you being white - the race element may conflated into the disapproval but I bet the minute you say ‘I’m converting’ they will welcome you.

Dairymilk50

Yes but unfortunately they are 11 and 10 now and still say it 😳 it’s fair enough I do look white, I see a white person when I look in the mirror but they know my dad is black