I'm so viscious towards my children. I feel so much venom towards them.

[RedMist]

Name change regular.

I love my kids. They make me smile and proud.

Sometimes though, they drive me nuts. Actually, a lot of the time they drive me nuts. Like I have no time for them and they are nothing but an embuggarance. I wish they'd just leave me alone.

They mither for food and sweets a lot.

They prod, poke and provoke each other.

They trash every room, indeed even little corners I've just managed to organise or tidy. We live in a shit tip, no matter how long I spend clearing up & cleaning.

My son is 6.5 My daughter is 4.5.

I've started to lash out, really visciously. Tonight, I smacked my son across his face because he;d pushed his sister when he'd walked in the room. Then I started pushing him and saying "How do you like it eh? How do you like it when a bigger person pushes you around?"

Then I sent them to bed and refused to kiss my son good night. I was still shaking with anger at him for deliberately being a little shit.

My daughter pushes my buttons as well. She snaps and snarls and is deliberately rude, to gain attention. She whines and whines until my head feels like it's exploding.

I've read the parenting books. I know the right way to discipline. I just seem to have lost the ability to do it. I'm irrational and short-fused when ever the children are around.

What the fuck is wrong with me? Why am I like this?

I went to GP and he gave me fluxatine (sp?) - basically, prozac. It zonked me out so I stopped it.

Where do I turn to next. What shall I do?

I'm married and my DH helps with the children but he's quite untidy as well - simple DIY jobs for example, always end up with every tool and all the associated crap, just left lying around, waiting for me to clear them away. So that just adds to everything.

I need answers Mumsnet, or at least a place to start resolving this.

Any advice?

[OrmIrian]

Good luck redmist.

I think that more people than you would realise experience huge frustration and anger at times when they have children. But it's taboo to talk about it. We all supposed to be perfect, controlled and consistent and surround our DCs with hearts and flowers . As I know very few people like that all the time, it's not surprising that those with young children get pushed over the edge sometimes. Parenting is so hard. Especially if you also have housework and/or a job too. And then add in other emotional issues...

[SorenLorensen]

I'm glad you have a plan - and a list (I'm a great believer in lists). Just bear in mind that your children don't know about your plan - and may be just as bickery and irritating and annoying when they come home from school. Rise above it - you sound like you did really well this morning. I liked what lisalisa said abour neurolinguistic programming - and almost by 'pretending' to be this brilliant, patient, earth-mother type you can become that person...and hopefully it becomes second nature and the negative behaviour becomes completely alien to you.

Keep posting, if it helps.

[ahundredtimes]

I agree with onebat and Orm. I think RAGE is much more common than lots of people let on, and when the red mist descends it is very difficult to control it.

The first step is doing exactly what you're doing. It is acknowledging you are responsible for your anger, the anger is all to do with you and nothing to do with your children or what they do.

You're very brave to be confronting it. In between the star jumps, breathe in through your nose and out of your mouth.

[CountessDracula]

Only just seen this

Well done you for trying to sort this out. I tend towards snappyness and I think it is all down to being a bit of a control freak. I can't cope when things don't go as I plan and with kids they just don't do they? I don't mean big things, I mean that for eg if I am running late and dd is being slow it doesn't matter that it is my fault for not having got ready early, my instinct is still to snap at her as I feel out of control.

Beware of addressing this in a controlly way as then if it doesn't go to plan (eg they won't paint eggcups!) then the red mist will descend again. You need to find out why you need to be in control and address that and then it becomes easier to relax and go with the flow. Well I have found it to be so.

FWIW I have found that the following help a lot

1. Not constantly tidying. Stick them in front of a DVD for half an hour just before bed and do it all then. Then you don't have the constant stress of it all being messed up and tidying ad infinitum

1. Try and not plan too much. Go with the flow a bit more. Ask them what they want to do.

1. If you feel yourself getting wound up just attack them and tickle them or something, diffuse the situation with laughter.

(PMSL i am doing my control freak I can fix everything list have just realised!!!)

1. Tell dh how you feel. Make sure he realises that it is not just you nagging, that you really feel terrible about it. Make sure he agrees to at the very least clean up his own mess if not more.

1. If you can get some help. Get a cleaner even if just 2 hours a week.

1. Get some counselling/therapy to address your underlying ishoooos.

Good luck

[CountessDracula]

(what I am trying to say is you are not a bad person but you clearly need to find out why you feel like this. My Father didn't, he was Mr Red Mist which I hated, which is why I have done something to address it and I am much happier and have a great relationship with dd most of the time now as a result)

[curlywurlywee]

Redmist, I am so sorry you are going through this but you are dealing with it which is great. I felt really bad when reading posts that were less than helpful and would have made you feel ten times worse. We need to have empathy and understanding as mothers, doing the hardest job in the world. You've made some mistakes, haven't we all and frankly I don't believe anyone who says they never get wound up or shout at their kids. You are heading in the right direction. I do sympathise with you as I also get very angry about the state of the house and dd whining. I have noticed myself getting worse with this and at 42 think that I'm in a perimenopause situation. I'm sure a lot of it is hormonal. There was a really interesting thread recently concerning peri and menopause which may be worth a look at. Sometimes, I feel like I've been lost in all this domestic/kids stuff and then I occasionally resent constantly looking after everyone else, then beat myself up for not being the selfless mother that I want to be. Family life is bloody tough and thankless some of the time. Look after yourself and well done you for being brave and honest enough to say it like it really is. Lots wouldn't have the courage to do that.

[PalomaPicasso]

God this sounds like me (the red mist etc). I have avoided belting my children but sometimes I really do have to walk away to stop doing so. What I find very useful but you may think me a raving nutter for doing, is I imagine that I'm being filmed for a programme about parenting. I particularly do this at bathtime, when I'm at a bit of a low ebb, knackered, bored of having the children all day, and desperate to get them into bed - and they are splashing water over the floor, refusing to brush teeth, hitting each other with bath toys etc. It was becoming a bit of a screech-fest and so now I imagine that I have a camera crew in the corner of the room. It is miraculous. Instead of screeching "Oh for god's sake LET ME BRUSH YOUR TEETH - look I'm bigger than you, I'm going to win even if I have to put you in a headlock, just GIVE UP and LET me" I find myself saying "come on! Shall we sing 'this is the way we brush our teeth?'" in a bright and happy tone. It really works.

For some reason I imagine the person with the camera crew is Kirsty Alsopp, I don't know what THAT is about...

[onebatmother]

lol pp - that;s v good. like lisalisa's neurolinguistic programming except with kirstie. I like it.
Sedation, sedation, sedation?

[dejags]

Redmist,

On the one hand I feel so sorry for your DS, because of this, I want to get angry at you and spring to his defence. My parents were abusive when I was little and it took me a long time (till after my 30th birthday) to sort myself out and get over it.

Then I think to myself,

I identify with your anger. I have thus far managed to keep it at bay, but there is no telling how much a 6 year old can wind you up. Add the stresses of everyday life and depression to the mix, it's not surprising the shit has hit the fan. It's a credit to you that you can admit it and that you have taken steps to fix it. Damn site more than my parents ever did until it was far far too late.

Somebody mentioned flashpoints. These are so important. Identify yours and make sure you have some coping strategies in place for them.

Most importantly, if you find yourself getting angry again, just repeat to yourself - he is only 6/she is only 4. They are so little, there is no excuse for your behaviour. But you know that already.

You don't say if you are working, if you are put in for some emergency leave. Cut all the stress out of your life for at least a week. Use the mornings to sort out the house, the afternoons to spend time with the children.

Good luck!

[SorenLorensen]

I do too Though Kirsty Alsopp doesn't feature as part of my film crew.

There was a thread on here (or it may have been an article in a magazine - I get confused) about pretending to be interviewed for Desert Island Discs and it was amazing how many people do fantasise about things like that.

[fairylights]

haven't read all posts but my mum was like that with us as children (but no one outside the family would EVER have guessed it) - as a parent now i do appeciate that she was sometimes depressed and desperate but it was extremely damaging to both me and my sister. I can see that she had huge amounts of pent up guilt and misery BUT (I know this will only make you feel bad and i am sorry for that) honestly, do you want in 10 years time to have extremely screwed up relationships with your teenagers? I could go on about how my relationship with my mum had a lot to do with my becoming anorexic etc.. but its too long and sad a story.
please please please go and get some help - i know that my dad was so scared of how my mum would become that he was in denial about it and that really didn't help, don't know how your dh responds?
Please go and get some help anyway. All the best.

[noddyholder]

They are not pushing your buttons that is a cop out.You do need help though as slapping a child across the face seems horrific to me Walk out of the room do anything but not that.My mum was like this to us and the scars are still there today on her and us.get help

[SpawnChorus]

Oh RedMist I'm really glad you've had some helpful posts here (esp from LisaLisa). I can really sympathise with that rage you describe. I'm guilty of shouting unreasonably at my DD (nearly three), and of doing things like grabbing her roughly to take her to her room for time out. It's just so shameful when you regain your perspective and look back at your shitty behaviour.

I'm going to be following much of the advice on here too.

Good luck with everything!!

[Prufrock]

redmist I could have almost been you 2 years ago, and it was depression. Fortunately for me I managed to get myslef to a sympathetic GP just before I lost control of my anger and actualy hit my kids - though I often walked around with fists clenched to stop myslef from doing so. Ad's helped immeasurably - and now I'm of tem, in therapy (don't dismiss the effets of your childhood btw - dead parents can screw you up subconciously as well)

I'm happy now. For so long I though I couldn't be, but I am, and I actually like being with my kids, and can't imagine being angry enough to hurt them. You can do it too, if you ask for, nad accept help.

[morningpaper]

Just another voice to add to those saying that I think anger 'flashpoints' are part of the parcel of parenting sometimes

I've come to the point where I know I am going to do something stupid and I have had to call DH home from work. But I have done that. I'd rather call DH home from work/meetings than slam my children against a wall, which is frankly how I felt at those moments. There were times when I had a crying baby and a 3 year old with night terrors and although rationally I knew I COULD deal with it, I just felt the anger rising.

I don't know if that is an option for you - or how often your anger strikes - but it might be worth discussing it as a possibility with DH.

I also work part time, which is a fantastic respite for me.

[OrmIrian]

Last night I was trying to get 4yr old DS#2 to sleep. DD came in and insisted on giggling and tickling him and commenting on the story in a silly voice. DS started to fidget and I knew it was only a matter of time before he stopped listening and wanted to get out of bed and play. He's a nightmare to get to sleep. After asking her several times calmly and politely to go out of the room she refused. So I took her shoulders and gently propelled her from the room and shut the door. She was outraged but I was proud of myself - there was as time when I'd have really lost it with her.
It is possible to change.

[SpawnChorus]

paloma - love the film crew idea.

[Flllightattendant]

I was afraid to click on this thread because I know I have times when I feel as though I am an abusive parent.
I have flashpoints - one being if I am hurt, and Ds laughs at me. He doesn't mean it and I know he doesn't, indeed now I realise that he is very little and means well - but from the age of about 2 till he was four, I found him extremely difficult to handle.

I believe that he behaved in a difficult manner because he could tell I was not happy/preoccupied/worried and it was his method of getting a reaction, communication, anything, from me so he felt safe again.



I have found a couple of things. One is when the mist descends, I step back - I tink, rather than feel - I allow myself those few seconds of just thought, as in 'what should I do now' and it stops me lashing out. I also think 'lashing out will not help me feel better' so I don't bother (I used to smack him sometimes, now it is very rare s he is more amenable to reasoning. Thank God for that)
I was never smacked though my parents were both depressed/angry. They did all the caring stuff, but not many hugs, and the hidden anger was still there so I was always afraid of it though it wasn't visible really. My mum was abused violently and grew up with her feelings shut down, so she neither gave great physical indications of love nor did she show her fury.
I never, ever thought I would smack my child, but I did. I am depressed which means he plays up which means I get frustrated. But also I like to think I am just more 'surface' than my mum was to me.

That is, I show great affection, muck about with Ds, joke and make him roar with laughter, tickle him, as well as the anger being 'surface' whch means he knows when he has pissed me off (usually - occasionally I find the power to hide it, always feel blessed when that occurs - like a true mother).

So he sees both sides.
I recognise now that it is not him being awful, but him being a normal active silly ebulliant child, and the incompatibility of that with my need for calm and quiet and thinking time and, most of all, solitude - which frustrates me at times beyond my boundary.

I sometimes walk out, leave the house, go out of the door and stand there for a few minutes (ther have been times I've wanted him to be crying, needed him to cry so I could feel love and pity for him, and go back in as a nice loving mummy - instead of numb and hurt and desperate mummy)
That works

Also the 'stop, think' method

Also the 'disarming myself' ethod - whereby I reach the end of my powers of containment, and find the only way out is backwards so to speak, so I drop my weapons and surrender - hug him, or cry, or just go floppy as it were.

Try these and see how you go.

Sympathy from me as well as shock, and the feeling that 'there but for the grace' etcetc

[Flllightattendant]

Oh and we talk through at sleep time. We talk and I say 'you know mummy was horrible today' and he nods, and I say 'It wasn't your fault. I really do love you but sometimes I feel worried about .....and .... and that means I need to think and sometimes when you are being noisy I get cross. I should not do it and I am so sorry' like that, and we hug, and I tell him how much I love him and make silly faces and he laughs spraying milk everywhere.

I do wonder if that is enough.

[eandh]

I have been watching this thread with interesr

Redmist - well done on admitting it, facing it and having a plan

Although I have not reached the level as written in opening message I certainly symapthise with the house mess thing I actually like cleaning etc and its taken me this long (dd1 is 3.4) to realise that mess can be cleaned up when they are in bed. I still tidy toys away pretty much throughout the day but thats mainly because when dd2 sleeps dd1 can have her 'big girls' toys out (the ones with small parts that dd2 likes to put in her mouth) also dd1 at preschool 3 mornings a week so dd2 has lots of her things out (tent/tunnel etc) that need to be put away so they have enough space in the afternoon. When there is stuff everywhere I tend to get a bit stressy with them but in reality it only takes 15 mins to put it all away, sweep floors and if necessary give them a quick mop.

I tend to resort to the kitchen when they are driving me nuts as I can see them but they know they are not allowed in kitchen just having 2 minutes to myself seems to calm me down, plus I make sure that all the beds etc are made 1st thing in the morning and unless dd1 needs to go to the bathroom noone goes upstairs so I know its tidy and organised.

I find myself shouting alot and I have read some good tips on here to try and calm down and not lose it, so am going to get off MN and sit and read with dd1 as dd2 is having a nap and dd1 asked me to read a while ago and I said in a mo and havent done it

Good luck redmist

[OrmIrian]

Yes we have a debrief too flightattendant.

I don't know if it's enough but I think it's essential.

[oregonianabroad]

I couldn't bear to read all of the messages so I hope I am not repeating myself.

I completely understand how you feel and have felt similarly myself. I'm sure you don't need anyone else beating you up or acting sanctimonious.

You have done something really important: asked for help. That is slightly easier on MN (in some ways, maybe) than in RL, but is there anyone you can ask for help -- even asking dh for a night off a week?

GET OUT OF THE HOUSE. alone. at least once or twice a week.
GET A ROUTINE THAT YOU CAN CONTROL just knowing that on Mondays I do x, Tuesdays i do y, helps me so much because it is something I am in charge of then, the rest of the day can be dictated by my ds's.

finally, my biggest sanity saver? going back to wrok part-time. I know it is not everyone's choice, but our lives are much better with a happy mummy part time than an angry, unhappy, unfulfilled one all the time.

All the best.

[oregonianabroad]

just read a few more of the most recent posts and they are much more helpful and kind than i thought.

it is so nice to know we are not alone in this!

[onebatmother]

flightattendant, that's v helpful I htink re disarming self, and tickling etc.

Because I feel so guilty (not hitting, but hurting iwth words) I become self-conscious with my affection. I am watching myself and can't relax into just 'being'.

And I do recognize that need for tears as some kind of climax, then we can move on.. awful, awful.

I am going to try much more tickling and face-pulling: as a diffusing mechanism at the time, as a Sorry, and as way of not letting things spiral into vicious circle of anger-guilt-selfconscious paralysis.

I think this thread is very positive.