Do you hide things from the kids?

[Mummyongin]

Do you hide things, specifically to hold boundaries eg screens, remotes, snacks etc? If not, how do you hold the boundary if it’s being pushed?

I literally locked snacks away when my eldest was about 15. Sounds awful but she was really pushing boundaries then. Would eat all the packed lunch stuff, so I locked it away.

I have a 5.30 early riser. I now go to bed at 9.00pm. He knows to wait for 6am before he can get up. it's been going on for 13 years now. when he was small he got in with me, now he waits, but I still get myself up at 6.00

All devices are in my room, or he'd be up at 4.00am!!

Sorry OP, you may be in it for the long haul. I actually enjoy the early to rise early to bed rhythm now.

They only really have a bit of screen time for an hour or 2 on a weekend (they are 9 and 12) so never felt the need to hide screens. If they're really pushing boundaries or their behaviour isn't acceptable then I'll implement a screen ban but I don't need to hide them

Never hidden chocolate or anything from them, they always ask before they take anything anyway

Might change as they get older I guess!

I have a 6 year old who would absolutely do the same if allowed to so its not just your child. Actually my 9 year old also twice managed to catch onto to the parental locks on the TV. You won't like this but the only way to resolve it is strong boundaries. Yep I got up with ds2 every single time and didn't turn the TV on (and didn't allow him to) and no snacks until I served everyone breakfast.

After a while getting up was so boring he would stay in bed awake (we went through the being noisy stage trying to wake up his brother as they share a room as well.....he got consequences every single time).

Truthfully it became not worth it for him because I made going downstairs boring and being noisy and waking others too big of a consequence.

It took a good year of me getting up with him at silly o'clock to work but now they don't get up or are noisy before everyone is up.

Same thing with inappropriate overriding of controls , ds1 got consequences during his stage of figuring out the overrides because he didn't get TV for a week after the second time (because it was deliberate he hid to see me enter the code).

Getting up and parenting is the only thing that will work, but it's worth it because now I can stay in bed because they won't leave their rooms without asking before a certain time.

I don't lie to the dc about things being switched off I tell them I put the controls on and why. They hesitate to break my boundary but they would happily override it if they thought it was a mechanical thing. (Except for the show Clarence ...that one DP did tell them it had been removed from Netflix because we were losing our minds.....worked for a week then they saw it advertised....never again)

There's nothing wrong with her being an early riser, I have 1.

You need to get up and supervise her.

There would be no need for hiding anything then. No need for telling her fibs and someone will be with her to make sure she's safe and not eating all the snacks

No, I taught them manners and good behaviour.

Though obviously bleach etc was up high when they were tiny

Firstly, it’s bloody hard to read pages of comments directed at me saying I am basically a crap parent. I wanted to just defend myself but I have tried to read between the judgemental bits, accept what I need to change and take the advice. Also I’m not saying all comments were making judgements but it felt tough to read.

Background context is:
Boundaries were taken as given until age 4, very few consequences needed as she was well behaved. I just set firm clear expectations. We were lucky she was easy to parent. Cue big change in behaviour during 2020 lockdown, pushing all boundaries. When we have used consequences of removing things or time out the behaviour doesn’t improve (if anything it’s worse) for weeks and months. Everyone is very unhappy AND no improvement in behaviour (I should prob assume I’m doing it wrong but not sure what else to do). Safe to say I choose my battles. DH wants to hold bedtime (currently 7.30 sch days and 8pm weekends) he gets tired early eve and values a little bit of free time before bed. I’ve suggested moving bedtime later, but he’s not keen. DH is a very light sleeper and will always wake if there’s a noise, I’m the opposite. I’ve probably relied on him too much as I know he’ll get up if he hears anything and is concerned. The eating without asking is a recent thing (around 1 week) so I was hoping to address it without removing snacks completely, particularly as she is likely to see that as a challenge and like I said I’m concerned about using hiding things as a main parenting method.
UPDATE
I set my alarm last night for 5.30am. She woke just after 6. She tried to get jelly babies so DH and I both said we’re moving the treats. She kicked me and went for time out. She responds really badly to time out so we had shouting and running off, we consistently add a minute for these sorts of things so I think she ended up with 8 minutes. I hate using time out as this always happens, even when we’re very consistent with it for weeks/months she just ends up with 10+ minutes and it doesn’t seem to be a deterrent. Anyway that’s a different issue I guess.

If she going to sleep at 8 and waking at 5.30 she is getting 9.5 hours sleep, that’s not won’t sleep for most children this age. Children behaviour is often worse when they are over tired. She may need an earlier bed time. I’m assuming you have blackout blinds and long blackout curtains.

@Duracellbunnywannabe

If she going to sleep at 8 and waking at 5.30 she is getting 9.5 hours sleep, that’s not won’t sleep for most children this age. Children behaviour is often worse when they are over tired. She may need an earlier bed time. I’m assuming you have blackout blinds and long blackout curtains.

She’s always had less than the norm, her whole life. Yes we have blackout blinds (she’s still up early through winter so I don’t think it’s sunlight).

No rush to respond. But I think you're likely finding the comments difficult because everyone is responding with various approaches and many of these are contradictory. Of course we all think our own way is the right one that's why we do things that way of course. But consequences are not the only way to hold a boundary. Boundaries are important and consequences are one way to enforce them but not the only option. Restricting access (and hiding can be a part of that) is a perfectly legitimate strategy. As is giving her a chance to do something herself (impulse control etc) as long as you are not intending to punish her if she shows you she's not ready for that responsibility. The reactions to these suggestions are simply different approaches clashing.

If you have a consequences based approach, then it would be unfair to set up a child in a situation where they might not yet have the impulse control (or other skill) to succeed. Whereas if you're going for more of a collaborative approach, that kind of test run, discussed, and then simply adjusting the environment/situation in accordance with their current abilities, no blame or punishment, can work really well. Especially for something like chocolate treats where it's not a disaster if she has them occasionally, you just don't want her having them every day. It wouldn't be a good approach for a safety issue obviously.

I think if you can't change the wake up time by adjusting the bedtime and there's nowhere else for her to be, then you probably need to decide between three priorities which two are important - brother continues to get sleep, parents continue to get sleep, no TV. Personally I'd be totally on the TV at that hour and I don't think it's lazy or dangerous. But I'd probably try and sort the early wakings first even if that meant temporarily taking it in turns to get up or temporarily having little brother woken up early.

I'd be worried about her choking if sitting downstairs eating by herself. Anything could happen. Why not get her to come in with you and watch a little tv/iPad in bed for a bit?

Ds1 is 5, he wakes around 6 most mornings - is under strict instructions that he has to come and let us know before he goes downstairs - this way we don't need to set an alarm if he sleeps later - he goes down and is usually alone watching tv for around 20 mins while one of us wakes up properly and then goes to join him.

Nothing is hidden but he knows he's not allowed to help himself to food while alone (he almost choked on a plum a couple of months ago and that was while I was in the room with him)

We don't do time out, but we do discuss his behaviour and explain why he's not allowed certain things, the same way we don't eat chocolate for breakfast etc. He doesn't need discipline as such, and we can usually tell when he's overtired by a decline in his behaviours.

He goes to sleep, every night, by 8pm, is in bed by 7:30 and we have a 15 min chat/story, then he's left to go to sleep.

@Mummyongin

Firstly, it’s bloody hard to read pages of comments directed at me saying I am basically a crap parent. I wanted to just defend myself but I have tried to read between the judgemental bits, accept what I need to change and take the advice. Also I’m not saying all comments were making judgements but it felt tough to read.

Background context is:
Boundaries were taken as given until age 4, very few consequences needed as she was well behaved. I just set firm clear expectations. We were lucky she was easy to parent. Cue big change in behaviour during 2020 lockdown, pushing all boundaries. When we have used consequences of removing things or time out the behaviour doesn’t improve (if anything it’s worse) for weeks and months. Everyone is very unhappy AND no improvement in behaviour (I should prob assume I’m doing it wrong but not sure what else to do). Safe to say I choose my battles. DH wants to hold bedtime (currently 7.30 sch days and 8pm weekends) he gets tired early eve and values a little bit of free time before bed. I’ve suggested moving bedtime later, but he’s not keen. DH is a very light sleeper and will always wake if there’s a noise, I’m the opposite. I’ve probably relied on him too much as I know he’ll get up if he hears anything and is concerned. The eating without asking is a recent thing (around 1 week) so I was hoping to address it without removing snacks completely, particularly as she is likely to see that as a challenge and like I said I’m concerned about using hiding things as a main parenting method.
UPDATE
I set my alarm last night for 5.30am. She woke just after 6. She tried to get jelly babies so DH and I both said we’re moving the treats. She kicked me and went for time out. She responds really badly to time out so we had shouting and running off, we consistently add a minute for these sorts of things so I think she ended up with 8 minutes. I hate using time out as this always happens, even when we’re very consistent with it for weeks/months she just ends up with 10+ minutes and it doesn’t seem to be a deterrent. Anyway that’s a different issue I guess.

This is then a bigger issue than just waking early.

I think that in your shoes, I'd consider speaking to the GP and maybe requesting a referral. There maybe absolutely no underlying issues,equally there maybe or there may be support that could be suggested to support the family and her.

I think that having a "management" system for children is something constantly evolves and changes over time, age, issue etc.

Time out for my lo, was, in honesty, a similar experience, with repeats needed to have any significant positive response. And shortlived. So for me, I tend to not call it time out and only use it as time away so that I can regroup on those really hard days. And I have always used it very sparingly. However, my child has ASD and I've had a steep learning curve to be able to parent with the no doubt usual issues as well as a fair few extra.

I give 3 warnings when something is happening that shouldn't be, and I rarely ever now make it to the 3rd,but it has taken a long time and a need for consistency. If I do get to 3,then the consequences have to be appropriate to the poor behaviour. My lo is now 7,so removing rights to access a tablet etc has been more effective, but I think because this was never an unlimited option, has time limits for when and how long it can be used as well as what, so it means something tangible and isn't viewed as a right. But yours maybe too young.

Would she take treats throughout the day without asking or is it just the morning this last week?

What positive behaviour reinforcement do you use? Are they effective?

Lockdown was hard on lots of children, but I'd think in honesty that's possibly a red herring and that simply she was just at that age where children test boundaries and she found her voice and own feet. Now it's a case of trying to reinforce the boundaries and embed consistency from both you and her father. It's going to be a bumpy road.

Practically, you've done right by setting an alarm today and that may have to be the way forward for the foreseeable with you and oh taking turns. I'd also perhaps give it it a try with moving the bedtime earlier, see if it has any impact and again later. Ohs wish for child free time is irrelevant at this point.

What's the feedback from school like?

Sorry you've had comments from the martyr mother brigade.

At 5 my DC were up before me. They were safe in the living room with the TV on. I didn't keep chocolate or crisps in the house.

I left out a bowl of cereal and spoon, they could get the milk from the fridge on their own. I'd also leave out a glass and straw which they would fill themselves. They'd also help themselves to the fruit bowl.

They could also butter bread by that age so would sometimes have that.

Or I'd leave out a brioche bun, something like that.

Good luck.

You have my sympathies, I'm a night owl, and although I can get by for a few days on very little sleep (two of mine were poor sleepers til 4yrs old the other a 7-7 sleeper🤷) I need to catch up at weekend. I never really had strict bedtimes as always trying to get as much sleep as possible with the two who didn't seem to need as much as their brother. They could read or ashamed to say third went to sleep to videos in his room. There is no 'right' answer as all children are different. That's why they don't come with instruction books😂 but for now I think you need to keep treats out of reach, either don't buy them or keep in the car as if she knows they are hidden high up she may look and have an accident. I have to say I was always careful what I left out having had a very scary choking incident with a 2yr old at grandma's on a fruit pastille😱 or an alternative view would be to leave a treat snack out, some are healthy, mine liked twiglets and bread sticks. Do whatever works for you and your little girl 💐

Sorry you've had comments from the martyr mother brigade.

Martyr mother brigade

For suggesting a parent supervised their 5 year old - I would love to hear you explain why that is being a martyr?

‘Mother martyrs’ for suggesting it’s not ideal that a 5yr old is unsupervised, tinkering with electrics, and eating? 😄

If she really can't go back to sleep watching tv isn't the worst thing she could be doing. I would either put the treats away or lock the kitchen door. Ideally she should be supervised, could you and your dh take it in turns to get up with her?

I really don’t think that a 5 year old being downstairs while their parents are asleep is equivalent to leaving them home alone

If you have got a child that is likely to try and boil the kettle/unlock the front door/play with knives then clearly you don’t leave them unsupervised but I know plenty of 5 year olds who are perfectly capable of watching TV for an hour or so while their parents are upstairs. I did originally think that she was only doing this at the weekends though, is it every day? If so then it can’t be that much earlier than you would have to get up for the day normally, so it seems logical for you or her dad to get up with her. Then she won’t be able to watch TV unless you allow it, and you can organise breakfast for her.

@felulageller

Sorry you've had comments from the martyr mother brigade.

At 5 my DC were up before me. They were safe in the living room with the TV on. I didn't keep chocolate or crisps in the house.

I left out a bowl of cereal and spoon, they could get the milk from the fridge on their own. I'd also leave out a glass and straw which they would fill themselves. They'd also help themselves to the fruit bowl.

They could also butter bread by that age so would sometimes have that.

Or I'd leave out a brioche bun, something like that.

Good luck.

It's not about being a martyr. It's that you can't have it both ways . You can't give a 5yo that much freedom and independence and expect them to make all the right choices and take all the responsibility for it.

DD also woke up early for years, but I had no issues with her watching telly or the ipad and having a pack of crisps or whatever else I left in her reach until I properly got up.