Too young to discipline?

[BeMyFriend90]

My near 3 year old throws stuff. He doesn't like anything. He shouts and demands attention. He grabs at my phone and tries to hit me when I say no.

Everytime I read advice online it says at this age its all down to frustration and I just need to love and support

My everytime I go to MN it's full of mums saying "god how awful are other people's kids" and then stories about how awful 3 year olds are and the comments are just horrendous..."ferral kids" "awful parenting" "weak mums" blah blah.

When my toddler has a tantrum I try to support him because I think I'm doing the right thing. But should I be telling him off properly?

Pls don't say trust your instincts. I don't seem to have any on this stuff. He's going to school next year and I just want to do whatever I need to do to help him. Right now he can't sit still, throws his food, and cries if his banana breaks in two so yeah...we have got some way to go

What are you doing if he hits or hurts others?

Does he go to nursery or pre school? If so how does he behave there?

If he hits you say ‘no’ and just walk away.
If he’s having a tantrum in public take him outside or away from the situation. He’ll soon realise it doesn’t get him what he wants.

If he hits me I tell him "no" very firmly. He will then say "me too sad" and lie on the floor and start to cry and ill give him lots of cuddles

He goes to nursery and he is much better there (he doesn't throw anything) but he is very quiet at nursery and just plays by himself a lot of the time.

When he comes home from nursery he's very vert affectionate with me, insisting on lots of cuddles and hangs off me, but then he soon starts demanding stuff and kicking off.

Remember that the word 'discipline' has the same root as the word 'disciple' - it's about following and learning. It's not all about punishment or sanction.

You absolutely must teach your DC how to behave - life will be so much harder for them if they do not start to learn a modicum of self-control,and good manners.

Positive reinforcement can be a very effective way- praise and reinforce good behaviour. Only sanction the real no-nos (eg things that are potentially dangerous). For more general pesty behaviour, then remove or divert the DC whilst describing what you don't want and telling them what you want instead. So if your DC is rioting in the library, you cut short the visit, and explain that need to use quiet voice and no running on the next visit

This all no sounds very chaotic.

People say to ignore tantrums so I try to do that but sometimes I'm literally sitting there as he pulls every bloody book off the shelf. To stop him I have to stop him physically which just escalates things but I can't just watch him can I?

I do always insist he tidies up after a tantrum and he often says "sorry no more throwing" and he looks genuinely sad/sorry but then he gets upset later and he just can't seem to stop himself

If he hits me I tell him "no" very firmly. He will then say "me too sad" and lie on the floor and start to cry and ill give him lots of cuddles

So he gets away with bad behaviour because he cries?

@Pru19 Yeah - it is chaotic. Thats why I'm trying to get help. Any advice?

"but then he soon starts demanding stuff and kicking off"

Never, ever give something in return for kicking off. Tell him that he needs to calm down and ask nicely. Keep saying that until he improves, even only fractionally. Then praise him for calming down and distract on tomsomething else. But he doesn't get the thing he kicked off about, because if a tantrum ever pays off you get more tantrums

@Hellocatshome so when he cries on the floor shall I just walk away and leave him there? I only give him cuddles after he says sorry. But I'd obviously not working so you think I cuddle him too quickly after the bad behaviour?

Sorry you're having a hard time OP, but hitting is just non-negotiable in my house. I think my now-4yo tried to hit me once and it was straight on the naughty step with a stern telling off. She's never tried again. My 3yo has never tried.

When he shouts and demands attention what do you say? When mine start shouting I calmly remind them we don't yell/that I can't understand them when they're shouting and to calm down and try again.

At three no, I would not allow that. I would walk away and ignore but put somewhere quiet, I suppose a naughty step type scenario without saying that.

Would not be trashing bookcase.

So I would move her, say we don't do that and leave. Then go back when calm or after a few minutes.

But I've done that from maybe two so in fairness she doesn't tend to do that now.

Baby 14 months still at ignore stage and take anything off her if she throws it. Firm no and walk away.

To stop him I have to stop him physically which just escalates things but I can't just watch him can I?

Pick him up, put on knee and hold him still until he starts to calm down. It's not an affectionate cuddle, aim is to contain whilst he learns how to calm down. Praise him for calming down as soon as there is even a slight improvement. Once fully in control, tidy up together

@AuntieStella Yeah. I'm pretty good at not giving into the tantrums. He demands snacks or my phone. I say no. Then he will try to push something over/hit me then he storms out the room. I leave him to it but he comes back into the room 2 mind later in flood of tears and saying sorry...and that's when I give him cuddles...but I wonder if I shouldn't do that.

@Hellocatshome so when he cries on the floor shall I just walk away and leave him there? I only give him cuddles after he says sorry. But I'd obviously not working so you think I cuddle him too quickly after the bad behaviour?

Well you left out the saying sorry bit in your original description of the scenario. Is he just turned 3 or 3 nearly 4 because I think that makes quite a big difference.

Ok so in my opinion it needs to be a bit of both (support him and also hold boundaries/discipline). For example if he kicks you because you’ve said “no” to him having your phone, I would move away and say “I know that makes you feel frustrated but I won’t let you hurt me.” If he keeps coming at you and won’t let you escape, hold him in a kind of bear hug from behind and keep telling him “it’s ok to be angry but it’s not ok to hurt people. I’m doing this to keep mummy safe” .

Sometimes distraction can work if employed quickly enough. Sometimes doing something silly and unexpected can bring them out of a funk.

If he’s trying to deal with anger try and model ways to “get it out”. With my dd we tried drawing the anger (turned out to be the most furious Scribble and I have to admit was therapeutic), dancing out the anger, even punching a cushion. They have these enormous feelings and don’t know what to do with them. We have to teach them.

I’m a fan of natural consequences and logical consequences. Eg if you rip your book, that book is torn now and difficult to read. Or if you throw the remote control I’ll have to put it away in a safe place.

I understand wanting to support your child, that is lovely. But you are right, at school there will definitely be set behaviour rules they’ll be expected to follow and if they have never experienced consequences to their actions before that’s going to be a big shock.

Thank you @AuntieStella for such useful advice. And for others too.

I should say he's 2, he's 3 in 3 months. And he's got a speech delay, his pronunciation is awful and he gets v upset when I don't understand him.

He is also v loving. And hilarious. And he is so loving to his little baby brother (giving him his food and toys). He seems v babyish himself still. Lies a 2 - 3 hour nap. Wants cuddles all the time. Very clingy. Wants to be carried. Follows me round the house

God I love him but its hard

@AuntieStella

Remember that the word 'discipline' has the same root as the word 'disciple' - it's about following and learning. It's not all about punishment or sanction.

You absolutely must teach your DC how to behave - life will be so much harder for them if they do not start to learn a modicum of self-control,and good manners.

Positive reinforcement can be a very effective way- praise and reinforce good behaviour. Only sanction the real no-nos (eg things that are potentially dangerous). For more general pesty behaviour, then remove or divert the DC whilst describing what you don't want and telling them what you want instead. So if your DC is rioting in the library, you cut short the visit, and explain that need to use quiet voice and no running on the next visit

Yes, exactly this. Your nearly 3 year old is not too young to be shown how you'd like him to behave.

And yes if he cries on the floor after a telling off, I would leave him there for no longer than a minute or two, or til he has calmed down, then explain as simply as possible what has happened, why it was wrong and tell him what I'd like to see next time. Rinse and repeat.

I'd also argue at this age they don't always know the meaning of "sorry" but they do know when it might get them some form of reward, therefore the "wrong" behaviour is reinforced, they learn nothing and the apology means nothing too. If he says sorry and its too quick, I'd still have the quick chat, simply praise him for apologising and leave it there before moving on to something new.

@Hellocatshome He's nearly 3. I take him to football on Saturday and he is the naughtiest there by a mile and they're all the same age. As soon as there is an exercise to do he just runs in the opposite direction to the other kids! He literally doesn't give a crap about other kids or following what they're doing. It's like he's in his own world and he only wants to be with me.

What are you telling him when you cuddle him? Are you praising the action you want - getting back in control?

It sounds like he's going from one form of out of control (acting up) to another (floods of tears), and isn't doing what you want him to (getting back any form of control of his action). Reward progress towards the behaviour you want, not a different form of being out of control

My dd is 3. She is disciplined and has been from as soon as she could understand.

She’s told no, but I always explain why it’s a no. I don’t give in when she cries because she’s not getting her own way and threatened the loss of privileges of her behaviour isn’t good enough for example ‘If you don’t behave, we will go home right now’ and I will see it through. I don’t panda to her and I am firm. Tantrums are ignored.

I have a younger child and I’m trying to follow the same methods. He’s different character though.

It’s hard op, they don’t arrive with a manual.

@De88 Yea you're right. Sometimes I say "say sorry Bobby" (not real name) and he says "sorry Bobby". I don't think he's being sarcastic he just genuinely doesn't understand what he's saying.

How old is your baby?
Has this behaviour started since your new baby came along?
Does he get 1-2-1 time with you?

Whilst ofc all kids tantrum etc, a new baby can also kick things off to get your attention.

[quote BeMyFriend90]@Hellocatshome He's nearly 3. I take him to football on Saturday and he is the naughtiest there by a mile and they're all the same age. As soon as there is an exercise to do he just runs in the opposite direction to the other kids! He literally doesn't give a crap about other kids or following what they're doing. It's like he's in his own world and he only wants to be with me.[/quote]
Talk to the coach, and pause the group football until he is more capable of participating. He's not learning any footballing skills nor how to be part of a team.

Tell him you'll try again in the autumn and you want him to join in nicely then