Too young to discipline?

[BeMyFriend90]

My near 3 year old throws stuff. He doesn't like anything. He shouts and demands attention. He grabs at my phone and tries to hit me when I say no.

Everytime I read advice online it says at this age its all down to frustration and I just need to love and support

My everytime I go to MN it's full of mums saying "god how awful are other people's kids" and then stories about how awful 3 year olds are and the comments are just horrendous..."ferral kids" "awful parenting" "weak mums" blah blah.

When my toddler has a tantrum I try to support him because I think I'm doing the right thing. But should I be telling him off properly?

Pls don't say trust your instincts. I don't seem to have any on this stuff. He's going to school next year and I just want to do whatever I need to do to help him. Right now he can't sit still, throws his food, and cries if his banana breaks in two so yeah...we have got some way to go

Does he have to go to school next year he is so young?! My son will be 3 in may but won’t go to school till 2024? It’s tough, when you say you are good at not giving in to wanting snacks/phone does this mean sometimes he asks and you say yes? I’d try and be in control of when/where he gets snacks and when (if ever!) allowed phone. I know with my boys if you give an inch they take a mile and you hear about it constantly whereas if they don’t ever get something they give up asking! Good luck!

‘How to Talk so Little Kids’ will listen is good, lots of strategies .

He did kick off about stuff before the younger DC was born. But it's probably got worse. And the baby is 10 months and is so clingy too so it's hard keeping them both happy.

To be honest my older DC has been furious since birth. He used to cry all night and all day. And it's only since having the 2nd baby that I realise how intensely angry he was/is as the 2nd DC is just much calmer

But really trying not to fall into trap of seeing one child as easy and another one as difficult as that isn't good for them is it

I think you have to be careful about the “say sorry and it’s ok” thing at that age as they often don’t really understand what it means. What you describe sounds like he can hit you then say the magic word then get a cuddle. I didn’t get any sense from your post that he understands what sorry means or what he’s supposed to be communicated in saying it- ie he doesn’t get the significance of saying sorry. I don’t know whether that’s accurate?

Don’t beat yourself up too much OP, he’s still so young, most two year olds are fucking feral.

My DD is 2.5 and has lots of tantrums still, they have big emotions at that age and need some time to learn how to deal with them. My NCT friends all report the same issues.

Janet Lansbury is a really great one to follow for advice on understanding toddler behaviour and ways to manage it without ‘disciplining’.

@birdglasspen Now I'm confused! So my DC turns 3 in June. Which means he turns 4 in June 2023. So he then starts school in Sep 23 doesn't he? I thought he started school the September after he turns 4? That's what it says on government website. Have I misunderstood?

@HappeeInParis Yes I think you're right. He has started saying "hitting no more" instead afterwards which I think indicates better understanding but the word "sorry" is just said to make mummy cuddle him I think

@AchillesHeelys thank you. My post has been triggerd by me reading posts on here about "awful kids running riot" and I've probably had a bit of an emotional reaction to it as so many posters slagging off parents but we are trying our bloody best. Some kids are more extreme than others!

[quote BeMyFriend90]@birdglasspen Now I'm confused! So my DC turns 3 in June. Which means he turns 4 in June 2023. So he then starts school in Sep 23 doesn't he? I thought he started school the September after he turns 4? That's what it says on government website. Have I misunderstood?[/quote]
Same as my DD, June 2019 born. They start school September next year yes. It’s strange to think that given they’re still only two!

[quote BeMyFriend90]@HappeeInParis Yes I think you're right. He has started saying "hitting no more" instead afterwards which I think indicates better understanding but the word "sorry" is just said to make mummy cuddle him I think[/quote]
This sounds good- linking the cuddles with understanding the behaviour that’s not ok.

School- you’re right, the norm is to send them from September after they turn 4. However you’re not legally obliged to do so until they’re actually five so you can delay if you wish.

At that age we had a time out chair- that's what they did in the nursery- he's 3 years old so 3 minutes off.

But you have to also reward a good behaviour- we had a sticker chart, if you earn for ie 4-5 stickers you can choose something from the reward box ( you can fill it up with some cheap little toys etc). The rules are yours.

The main and most important thing is to be persistent- it won't change in few days, but when the child understand that you really mean in and stand behind what the consequences gonna be it's gonna change.
It worked for my dd, she used to have tremendous tantrums at that age.

[quote BeMyFriend90]@AchillesHeelys thank you. My post has been triggerd by me reading posts on here about "awful kids running riot" and I've probably had a bit of an emotional reaction to it as so many posters slagging off parents but we are trying our bloody best. Some kids are more extreme than others![/quote]
I sometimes feel like that reading mumsnet threads, I think some posters forget how difficult toddlers can actually be.
I have lots of friends with children who are slightly older and I’ve seen how much they change even between 2-4 years old, so that gives me hope!

Who is treating the speech delay? Talk to the speech therapist
Ask h v if there are local parenting classes
If He trashing bookshelf pick him and move him away

Basically in doing this, you are teaching him the pathway to you getting down to his level and cuddling is the problematic behaviour,

"If he hits me I tell him "no" very firmly. He will then say "me too sad" and lie on the floor and start to cry and ill give him lots of cuddles"

Try to do short bursts of the same things, exactly the same but only when he does the right thing or is being calm. He will learn he doesn't need drama to get the intimacy and cuddles. Trying to comment only on positives for a while in a calm way really works wonders.

Sometimes feel like that reading mumsnet threads, I think some posters forget how difficult toddlers can actually be.

Also some people are twats.

For all that you're doubting yourself, you're doing a lot of things right IMO. You're telling him "no" firmly when he hits you - and he is beginning to say "no more hitting", which means he is learning. You're making him help tidy up when he's thrown things around in his anger, and he's saying "no more throwing", which means he is learning. That's fantastic. It will take time, and he will behave abominably while he learns - that's natural, and it's his age, and you will get through it with patience and persistence.

Offering him calm, non-escalatory support when he tantrums, with lots of cuddles and reassurance, is the right thing to do. By the time he's in a tantrum he's beyond reason, so being a loving presence is the best you can give him. I'd suggest including a bit of a "restorative chat" along with the cuddles once he's calmed - similar to social stories with an autistic child, talking through what happened and why, and how it could have happened differently, can be really useful.

But it's a matter of attrition - the fact that it isn't having dramatic results overnight doesn't mean it's not working. It is working - he's learning, and he's understanding.

Children don't feel remorse until much older so if you see him looking sheepish it's because he knows he's in trouble rather than feeling bad about what he did. He's clearly learned the word sorry as a social thing that gets hugs from you but that word has as much meaning to him as trigonometry. It's just a word.

It's ok for him to have a tantrum. He's at a crucial age where he is learning what it feels like to be the whole range of emotions like jealous, angry, disappointed etc but also how he calms down when he feels those strong emotions. So in his world, an imperfect crisp is infuriating but by this time next year he will hopefully be at the stage where he complains that the crisp is imperfect or asks to swap with yours rather than be livid.

Remind him how to deal with the problems in his life. If he wants your attention he should say "mummy" rather than hit you or if he doesn't like the colour of his cup then he can say "no" instead of throwing it at you. It doesn't get better but it's important to try and nail this before he's off at school with his peers who will be currently going through the same.

Yeah. I worry I'm not being consistent. So for example he's obsessed with a certain programme on telly and when I'm trying to sort out the baby ill stick it on for him. But then he asks for it when eating his dinner and ill say no and the dinner ends up on the floor. It's surely OK to say no to things sometimes but still allow it on occasion. But it stresses him out so much I wonder if we need to say no to telly, tablet, snacks all the time. He doesn't have any of that at nursery. Its hard when the baby needs me all the time. I know its hard for everyone. Thank you so much for advice .

(And yes some people are just twats @HappeeInParis Ha ha!)

So my DH really struggled at school. He was v behind, anxious, angry little boy and my MiL always compares my DS to my DH saying how similar they are. DH is difficult now, lacks confidence, very quick to take offence. My MiL says she let him get away with murder and says she never told him no. I'm finding it hard not to see my DS in that context and that's just awful isn't it..mlookung at my 2 year old and seeing my DHs problems. I'm projecting and he's only 2 for gods sake. I just don't want him to struggle and when I see him playing by himself at nursery at pick up or being ignored by the other kids and parents at football my heart breaks for him

I know my DH sounds difficult BTW. And he is. But that's another thread. Hahaha.

Having boundaries is good for kids. Lee the rules consistent and he will learn that you mean what you say and you're not going to cave in or bend the rules.

@thebellsesmereldathebells I like the sound of restorative chat. I'm going to look that up.

My friend said I should say "you have made mumm sad" when he hits me as he definitely gets the concept of being sad but haven't done that yet as seems a bit off

I would redirect instead of cuddling on the floor. "It's not nice that you're sad, shall we play with the blocks?"

Well, for one thing you DS isn’t a clone of your DH and for another, you’re not your MIL. It’s not clear to me from your oats that your DS is anything other than a completely normal little boy. Honestly, they are all like this sometimes. It sounds like you’re doing great.

On the other hand, maybe your DS has personality traits inherited from your DH. That’s fine as well. But I’d really encourage you not to follow your MIL’s example. Never saying no doesn’t make children happy. They learn self-regulation from the regulation you give them.

Yes thank you @HappeeInParis. My MiL tells me my DH used to bang his head on the floor to get his own way until he was 7. And she admits to always giving in to "stop him hurting himself". My DS started to bang his head when he turned 2 but has stopped now as I always used to leave him to it and never give in but just give him kisses when he calmed down and explain he mustn't hurt himself on purpose

You're right. My DS is his own person. Not copy of DH

Well, I don’t want to criticise your mil as we’re all doing our best but my personal view is that boundaries are a necessary part of mental health. Little kids have absolutely raging emotions. A kind parent who is able to say no is like a box that helps the child contain how they feel, until they realise that their emotions are actually just emotions, not the end of the world. Please don’t feel bad for taking a different line to your MIL.