Am I teaching my son too early?

[MamaJBW]

My DS is 5 years old and started school last august. We've been asking consent from him as to who helps him wash his hair, dries him etc as he's getting older and I am his mum he might not be comfortable with it anymore but 9 times out of 10 he usually wants me. We've had the discussion about how his private area isn't for anyone to be touching (unless at the doctors for it), knows the proper name and also knows not to be touching any one else's too. Always taught manners also and he's good at using them. Now it's coming to the fact where I want him to have the choice over his own body such as haircuts, shower or bath, what's clothes etc. He is asked for cuddles and has every right to refuse and isn't made to feel bad. I just want him to know he's able to make choices that are safe like those mentioned before but what is niggling is how my DH reacted whilst I was asking our DS about having his haircut. He said he needs to have it cut right back but DS asked for scissor trim only and I think that's up to him now to decide as he is older. Also explained that if he does leave it to grow it will get longer and might need to put it up in a bobble to keep him from being too hot at times and he decided he didn't want that so has asked for a trim. My DH scoffed and said you should just tell them how to cut it..... it's annoyed me as I'm building all these foundations so he can learn consent and independence at a safe pace and my DH thinks I shouldn't as he is still too young. Sorry for the long read I'm just frustrated and worried I'm overloading his 5yo brain now.... thank you xxxxx

Obviously some of the things you’re teaching him are vital but I do feel that you’re trying to encourage independence by thinking for him. Your method contradicts what you are actually trying to encourage and achieve. You’re encouraging him to be independent but by thinking for him. This is contradictory.

As you asked, my advise would be to allow him to forge his own independence in his own time. I think this is important for development into a healthy adult. Kids need to learn to think for themselves. Plus, whilst you are his friend, you are also his parent. Relax a little and enjoy your little boy.

Haircuts: literally make no difference to their wellbeing so let the child decide

Totally agree. However, school will hold a different view and therefore better to prepare him for the unfortunate fact that his choices won't always be taken into account. Personally I hate that a haircut can be dictated by the school, but we all know they do.

We started to reduce the tantrums and it works so I'm sticking with it.

It's essential to allow a child choices over small things, absolutely, and I'll be the first one to say my DC have been allowed a lot of leeway regarding decision making. I've always been an advocate of letting them control the little things in their lives (which jumper which shoes etc) as the big things aren't always optional.

But there has to be caveats, and balance, otherwise you risk raising a child who will throw major tantrums further down the line when they realise their choices won't always be taken into account. My DNeice for one. She's 14 now and completely rules the roost over my DSis and bil because she was allowed too much free reign when she was smaller 'because it stopped the tantrums'. They might've had a tantrum free toddler, but they're paying the price big time with their teen. And teens are much harder to reason with than toddlers.

OP from your update it seems you're not actually going too ott after all, and obviously how you parent your child is entirely your choice! However, I would caution some balance, and hopefully you'll avoid meltdowns when your DS comes up against situations where he has no personal choice over what happens.

I would stop asking him what he wants and what he thinks of this and that. If a five year old has a strong preference they will tell you (repeatedly)

5 is still a tot. I thought he was 12 when you said older! I agree with your dh. I agree it's his choice with kisses and cuddles yes and of the importancebof teaching him his private parts etc. I have a ds similar age and just say we are going to the barbers today and he loves going. I feel giving them too much choice is confusing and they are far to young for that burden. They need guided and parented and told sometimes too!
Do you have any other dc op? I ask this because it seems you're over thinking alot and I was like this with my first alittle bit until the second one came along!

Giving too many choices tok early ratches up anxiety in children. You need to massively reduce the choices you provide to protect his mental health, so no open ended questions. Only give him a max of 2 to 3 clearly defined choices - so don’t ask who he wants to help him bathe, ask do you want mummy or daddy to give you a bath? Show him 2-3 haircuts and ask him which one he wants. Not Washing hair / bathing at all should never be an option at all.

Children that age need the security of boundaries, of parents making the majority of decisions related to their health and safety.

For most of these things I wait for the child to express a preference rather than offer choice all the time.
One of my DC in particular has never coped well with making decisions, if I'd have asked him to choose every little thing at 5 he'd still be trying to make his mind up about whether he wanted a Lego or Batman themed pyjamas 13 year later! So I'd just say "time for a bath/pyjamas/haircut" and if he said "can I have a shower/different pyjamas/grow my hair" then I would allow or explain why it wasn't possible as necessary.

I don't think you should be asking consent to do things he still needs done for him like washing his hair etc. If you're going to do that you need to teach him to do it himself. Kids at that age often just come up with the first thing they think of too. Don't fancy a hair cut but not really sure why or can't be bothered so I'll say no or a quick trim will mean I can get back to my iPad quicker

Your heart is in the right place, as are your intentions. However, he is far too young for you to be encouraging him to make his own decisions. He is 5yo. This sounds like something a parent should be doing with their DC around 9/10yo.

You may regret encouraging independence so young. You will blink and he will be 16 and you'll give anything to go back to him being 5.

Enjoy him while he's still young, OP.

Best of luck

I think it sounds like you are taking it a bit far. That said, I don't see an issue with him choosing a less severe hair cut. Ds2 has really quite long hair. He's almost 5 and really doesn't want it cut. It doesn't affect anyone other than him (when he's mistaken for a girl, which doesn't bother him in the slightest)

Your son needs you to parent him this includes personal hygiene and haircut decisions you have to show boundaries for him to learn them dumping ever personal decision on a 5 year old is unfair and can be unsettling for them.

My 4 year old ‘chooses’ things. I give her a choice. This outfit or this outfit? This hat or that hat? This lunch or this lunch? Mummy or Daddy reading you a bedtime story?

It helps her feel like she has a choice but it’s within my boundaries. I have a friend who just lets her kid go out the house without a coat on when it’s cold or drizzling because ‘it’s her choice’.. bullshit. You are creating a monster. My kids always wear appropriate clothing outdoors or we don’t go out.

DDs have no choice who does bathtime, I work until 7pm so it’s Daddy. I’m sure DD1 will vocalise when she no longer feels comfortable with this but we are a very open household with bodies, the kids see is naked a the time. But we’ll respect our daughters when the time comes & make sure they feel comfortable.

I quite often grab my kids for hugs, we are a very huggy family. My mum still pulls me in for hugs aged 32 😂 If my eldest is upset, I’ll ask if she wants one, I’d never force it but day to day, I’ll go give them big hugs cos I feel like it. Again, I’d always respect DD’s wishes if she pushed me off or said no but she never has to date.

As for hair, DD can can choose within reason. Her hair is a bit bonkers & school require that it is tied up. So it needs to be on the longer side. I’d struggle to get bob length hair into any kinda style that would stay put. DD currently has a fringe that I love but if she wants it gone then we’ll grow it out!

Just find a middle ground. I won’t be burdening my 4/5 year old with lots of things to choose & worry about. Choice within boundaries is fine. But enjoy your child, he’s 5, stop worrying about if it’s ok to hug him 🤯

If my child wanted to go out in the rain without a coat I'd let them. Very easy and quick lesson learned. I wouldn't let them go out without shoes as they might hurt themselves, but a bit of water won't do them any harm, and then they'll know to take a coat next time.

Wow you are a bit intense! If he needs a haircut cut his hair, hes 5 so no cant choose. Can choose between two tops or food etc but no personal care at 5 is too much. Be a parent abs take the stress off him a bit. I'm with dh.

You are the adult; he is the child. He needs your guidance. And he needs to learn that we do not have choice in everything that happens in our lives.

He will be a right pain as he grows up if you go on like this; and he will struggle to accept that life ain't perfect, or centred round him.

Horrors mischance, all those horrible self centred young people choosing their own hairstyles and clothes. Mine are probably spoiled for life. I mean, 10 yr old sometimes asks me to do a plait for her, perhaps I should hold her down and apply clippers to save her from herself.

@thirdfiddle

Horrors mischance, all those horrible self centred young people choosing their own hairstyles and clothes. Mine are probably spoiled for life. I mean, 10 yr old sometimes asks me to do a plait for her, perhaps I should hold her down and apply clippers to save her from herself.

OP’s child is 5, not 10. At my nursery the girls with long hair at 4 have no idea how to care for it themselves and constantly too scared to be active in case their parents tell them off for ruining their style / coming home with messy hair; or breaking the stupid flipflops and sandals their parents force them into. So by the time they start school at 5 they have stopped moving except for the bare minimum it takes to walk (slowly) anywhere. It’s gotten to the point where many local schools and nurseries are considering applying a maximum hair length code (with exemptions for religious reasons only).

We have a 3 year old in the nursery class where I work who comes in wearing inappropriate clothing and footwear pretty much every day - because mum says “she has the right to decide for herself”.
Well that child struggles to join in with a lot of our activities as a result. Sometimes she has literally had to miss out.
Pity mum doesn’t seem to understand that 3 year olds aren’t capable of weighing up all the information, pros and cons, and making the right decision!

And that's where the boundaries come in. They choose from appropriate for setting options.

Surely nobody is going to claim that a short scissors cut is inappropriate for any setting? DD chose short hair around 4 as she didn't like brushing long, it was practical but I wouldn't have forced it on her. I did insist on practical for nursery i.e. ponytail if it was long enough to tangle otherwise. I didn't notice her long haired classmates slowing down any mind you, that's very sad.

Btw for moving fast, I think it's more often the shoes that are a problem. Shoe shops are so determined to sell the girls non grippy dainty footwear. That was one of our boundaries, practical all weather footwear.

A child of 5 needs a balance between making choices and being guided by the adults around them. It may seem "right on" to give them free choice in everything, but in the end you are not helping them. They are learning that their view is the right view, and their choices matter more than anyone else's. When they reach the stage in life where they cannot have their choices, they will find it hard to deal with.

Small children need guidance and boundaries, within which there is scope to make choices.

Children aren't meant to or be expected to understand consent etc until much later on, certainly not until they're over 10 and even older for most kids. Making him be aware of the fact that his privates are privates and no one else should be looking at them or touching them is fine as it's about him knowing right / wrong - it's wrong for people to touch his privates (except Dr under certain circumstances etc) when he's a child even with his consent! Trying to get him to have any level of autonomy or give consent at this age is way too much as he doesn't understand and all the opposing views. Look up Gillick competence. You're talking about much older ages here. What you're teaching him is that he can make decisions for himself without understanding the consequences.

I agree with most. You have your heart in the right place but you are just making life difficult for yourself, for other adults he will be interacting with, and therefore, ultimately your ds.
At 5, you (+ your dh) need to be the parents. IT is overwhelming for 5 yr olds to have too much autonomy over their lives - they need guidance and leadership from adults. I would also say they need to learn that none of us can always "do what we want", but there are rules to follow at all different levels, from laws down to policies or rules of particular clubs or groups, to 'societal expectations'.

I'm all for giving little ones choices where possible....... 'do you want the green hat or the brown one today? / 'baked beans of spag hoops?' / bath or shower? are all good, but an adult decides when a 5 yr old needs a haircut - I agree with your dh.

@thirdfiddle

Horrors mischance, all those horrible self centred young people choosing their own hairstyles and clothes. Mine are probably spoiled for life. I mean, 10 yr old sometimes asks me to do a plait for her, perhaps I should hold her down and apply clippers to save her from herself.

What? How is that in any way the same

Children thrive with balance and boundaries and guidance from adults, particularly small children. It's too much to put big decisions on small shoulders.

Quite aside from the parenting aspect. For a child I also think that too much too young means there's little to aspire to, if that's the right word. With mine, as they've hit different ages and different milestones in understanding they've 'unlocked' new levels of choice and independence. It's something to work towards (I'm struggling with finding the right words today - writers block), something that they can make a choice about at 8 (for example), that wouldn't have been appropriate to let them have a choice over at 5.

Essentially, levelling up!