Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Parenting

For free parenting resources please check out the Early Years Alliance's Family Corner.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

I think my ex is smacking/hitting our two year old

74 replies

Redpoppies92 · 31/12/2021 04:38

So, a few months ago my ex drove our son and I to a paediatric appointment (I don’t drive) and on the way home our son had a major tantrum because he didn’t want to leave the attractive toys in the office behind. My efforts to calm our son weren’t working, and my ex lost his cool. He started shouting at our son, which of course upset him even more, then started saying he was going to smack him and proceeded to count down the seconds. I went into a shock and quickly started holding my sons hand which seemed to stop the tantrum (didn’t work before, which makes me think he has been smacked before). Another time he gave us a lift somewhere and our son had a tantrum, the same thing happened and I could see my ex’s hands go behind the car seat and he was touching my sons legs. I got to anxious and I told him to just drop us off at the train station that was just there. When I confronted him, he denied denied denied that he’s ever hit him. He spends every weekend with our son and I have him during the week, so I’m not there to see what’s going on, but his 12 year old daughter (from another marriage) is also there on weekends.

One time he helped us with shopping (I now do shopping online to avoid needing use of his car/being in this predicament), my son tried to grab one of the little croissants out of the shopping bag and my ex picked up him by his wrist. I was in complete shock and I told him no more sleepovers, to have less time together etc. My ex was making out that lifting him up was an accident, he felt bad for hurting him, that he loves his son and would never hurt him. I said to him it wasn’t ok to hit him (as I believe he had from the times I heard him threaten to) and reiterated no more sleepovers while his daughter was there (because I wanted her to know it wasn’t ok if he was doing this). He turned to his daughter and went ‘we haven’t been hitting him, have we?’ To which she responded no but I don’t know if she is being coerced. He’s a very manipulative, controlling person.

Fast forward to last week, my son had a tantrum because I told him we had to walk down the hill and not use his scooter because it wasn’t safe (it was a steep hill leading into a road). I had shopping bags and I kept trying to get my son off the ground because he was having a major tantrum about not being able to go down the hill on his scooter. We were there for half an hour and I felt like crying because I couldn’t get him up to go home. I phoned my ex to ask if he could have a chat with him and that maybe it would help (grandma in a different time zone so wasn’t possible). My ex said ‘you need to smack him’, I just didn’t respond to the command and let my ex speak to him over the phone. I could hear his 12 year old daughter in the background so I know she heard him say this. I sent him a message that night saying I hope he hasn’t been smacking him and he responded to say he hasn’t - why is he telling me to then?

Then the other day, my son was looking out the window and started saying ‘daddy hit Arthur there’ (where my ex usually parks his car). It was completely out of the blue. I asked him where did daddy hit you and he kept pointing to his tummy. And then also said ‘butt’ and pointed to his bum. He was telling me to ‘take doctors’ as whenever he’s had an accident and been hurt, I’ve taken him in to be checked over. I then tried to get my phone, to get evidence of him saying it, as I thought it would be necessary if I need to file concerns for his safety. I don’t know if it sounds like I was talking him into it in the recording, I just needed a repeat of what he told me himself. He kept saying ‘susy helped’ him in the car and that he smacked the car. He was basically saying he was smacked for hitting my ex’s car and that his half sister was comforting him. I spoke to my own mum about it and she told me to hold off for now and play by ear before doing anything about it.

I had more of a think today and I said to my ex that I don’t feel comfortable handing him over this weekend if I don’t feel my son is safe. My ex kept reiterating that he’s never hit him, that he’s a good man, that there are witnesses there every weekend to see he isn’t being hit or smacked. When I mentioned all the times he said he would smack him I was called evil and a liar, so he is attempting to gaslight me. He started saying that his daughter was a witness that nothings ever happened but then I thought to myself she was there on speakerphone when he told me to smack him.

What should I do here? Am I overreacting or is this necessary to keep my son away? Should I contact DSS? He kept saying that if I wouldn’t let him take our son tomorrow then he would contact police and DSS himself.. we don’t have a court order or anything in writing about custody. I know that corporal punishment is technically legal but I do not feel comfortable sending my son there.

I should also mention, that he has a recording of me slapping him during our time together (at the end) and he always holds it over my head with custody, DSS etc. He was abusive to me but he chose which recordings stay or go. I am obviously concerned about how the recording is being used to manipulate me but I don’t feel like I can let it get in the way of protecting my son. Thoughts please.

OP posts:
Yummypumpkin · 31/12/2021 04:55

He is hitting your son, that seems clear.

Which country are you in? The law in Scotland is stronger on this than England, Wales and Northern Ireland.

Redpoppies92 · 31/12/2021 05:12

I’m in Australia

OP posts:
Kanaloa · 31/12/2021 05:19

Well obviously he’s smacking him. He’s told you/threatened multiple times in front of you so not sure why you’re acting like it’s just a random hunch you have.

It also sounds like you’re far too entangled with him anyway, ringing him to ‘have a chat’ with your son. It’s not a healthy dynamic and it sounds like you’re too dependent on him and unable to stand up to him.

I would refuse to let my son go back to stay and be hit there.

Kanaloa · 31/12/2021 05:22

You also sound just like you think you’re helpless in it all, with you seeing him threaten to smack the child/saying you should smack the child then sending weak messages later saying ‘I hope you didn’t smack him.’ What’s the point of that when you KNOW he did smack him?

Redpoppies92 · 31/12/2021 05:25

@Kanaloa I got legal advice after the threats in the car, and from what I was told I have no evidence, and that a judge might actually favour him if I come out with claims without evidence and that a judge would essentially punish me if I’m withholding my son from visitation...

My ex said it was an empty threat to which I said this wasn’t ok. I was speaking to my mother about this and she agreed to hold off until I had full evidence. He kept saying he had witnesses there every weekend to see everything that was going on - so what do I have to substantiate this. I wasn’t posting to say ‘do you think my ex has been hitting’ it was more like, for these reasons I do believe he has, and how should I proceed and am I even going to receive help if corporal punishment is legal

OP posts:
Sparklfairy · 31/12/2021 05:27

I've just looked and it looks like the law is roughly the same as the UK -its legal as long as its "reasonable". A lovely flaky law mostly open to interpretation about "reasonable" Angry

I wouldn't send your son back there. Can you keep a diary listing every incident you can, including the ones here, in as much detail as you can? As you don't have a formal arrangement he'd presumably have to take you to court to try and force access. He can't just threaten and force you now.

You need to protect your son. It all sounds awful for him.

Yummypumpkin · 31/12/2021 05:38

Without being rude if you'd had legal advice from a solicitor in the country where you live, I'm not sure what you want from this thread.

You need to keep talking to your son and you could seek a second legal.opinion making clear you don't wish to stop contact but want supervised contact on the grounds of physical abuse.

Your son will be spoken to. Your existing talk of witnesses is a red herring. You cannot witness someone not doing something.

Yummypumpkin · 31/12/2021 05:39

That should say ex's talk not existing talk.

Redpoppies92 · 31/12/2021 05:42

@Yummypumpkin

I’m simply trying to gain the perspective of other mothers - who can gain an understanding with my situation and see what they would do in my shoes. I don’t have evidence. Just my own claims of what I’ve heard. I’m in a rock and a hard place because obviously I don’t feel easy about my son going but if I make bold claims to family court and withhold visitation, then there is the risk that he gets the 80% custody which obviously isn’t ideal given my ex’s behaviour.

OP posts:
Yummypumpkin · 31/12/2021 05:42

You also need to type up a coherent timeliness with dates and details.

The clearer you can be in your account, focusing on facts, and your desired outcome, the easier for your solicitor to advise.

Redpoppies92 · 31/12/2021 05:45

@Yummypumpkin @Kanaloa

I’m not exactly sure why you’re both being so condescending. Comments like the ones you’ve made are perhaps why a lot of women don’t reach out to seek help. It’s very witch-hunty. I’m obviously invested in the best interests of my child or I wouldn’t be explaining this dilemma and seeking advice on it.

OP posts:
Redpoppies92 · 31/12/2021 05:48

@Yummypumpkin @Kanaloa

I’m also unsure if this smacking falls in the guideline of reasonable corporal punishment. Which I don’t agree with but if it’s legal then I essentially have no grounds to report him anywhere. I can’t get access to my lawyer over the Christmas break but I’m thinking I should make a DSS report or a police report with my concerns regardless of the legality of his behaviour

OP posts:
Yummypumpkin · 31/12/2021 05:49

Do not get snippy with me.

Yummypumpkin · 31/12/2021 05:50

[quote Redpoppies92]**@Yummypumpkin* @Kanaloa*

I’m also unsure if this smacking falls in the guideline of reasonable corporal punishment. Which I don’t agree with but if it’s legal then I essentially have no grounds to report him anywhere. I can’t get access to my lawyer over the Christmas break but I’m thinking I should make a DSS report or a police report with my concerns regardless of the legality of his behaviour[/quote]
And don't tag me expecting more of my time and patience when you've been rude.

Redpoppies92 · 31/12/2021 05:51

@Kanaloa

When I also messaged him ‘I hope you aren’t smacking him’ it was a test to see whether he would admit to it because this would provide me with text evidence.

OP posts:
Redpoppies92 · 31/12/2021 05:57

@Yummypumpkin

I’m not being snippy or rude, I’m simply calling it out. Surely this is a more encouraging place to seek advice if people are being courteous and not jumping to the worst assumption of OP in the first comment. I’m sorry if my comment offended you.

OP posts:
Kanaloa · 31/12/2021 06:00

Okay well I’m sorry you found me condescending. I find it a bit frustrating when people act wishy washy about kids being hit.

I wouldn’t bother ‘testing’ him and holding ds’s hands/being dropped off unexpectedly/texting weak statements because it’s literally pointless. You already know he hits the child, he and the child have both told you. He’s unlikely to provide you with written confirmation.

And you’re tacitly accepting it by relying on him for lifts and ringing him for parenting advice and support.

Redpoppies92 · 31/12/2021 06:00

@Sparklfairy

Do you think the information I have is enough to go on? I was weighing up, short term- long term outcomes and worried about my ex getting majority custody if my claims are do not have evidence. I can pull up the dates for the paediatric appointment, the scooter incident and more recently when my son told me. I have a video of my son talking about it shortly afterwards but it may look as though I’m coaching him into saying something which again could backfire.

OP posts:
TwoAndCooPlease · 31/12/2021 06:01

Your poor son. Trust your instincts, he is being hit. And he needs his mum to protect him so yanbu to keep him away

I really thought I wouldn't make it to the end of your post. I felt utterly sick reading this

^ for these reasons I do believe he has, and how should I proceed and am I even going to receive help if corporal punishment is legal^

I'm sorry, all I know is that you cannot send him there any more. Please

Kanaloa · 31/12/2021 06:02

Also don’t know why after phoning him to sort the child’s tantrum you ‘didn’t respond to the command’ to hit your child then passed the phone to the child. That’s what I mean about being wishy washy.

wildseas · 31/12/2021 06:14

I’m not a lawyer but there are some things which you can do that will lend credibility to what you’re saying.

  • go to the doctor and explain what your son has said and ask for him to be checked over. Ask them for advice.
  • if your son is in nursery/child care tell them about what he said to you and your suspicions. Ask them to listen out for anything similar.
  • stop any extra contact with him. Don’t ring him / use his car / jointly go anywhere on your time. If he’s accepted no overnights then don’t send overnight. Any time he cancels don’t offer extra time.
  • follow the suggestion above to prepare a really clear dated timeline of what has happened and save it as a pdf so that it is time and date stamped.

You could certainly ask the police and/or dss for advice, and your lawyer will be able to help in more detail. In your position i would be aiming for contact to be supervised rather than for it to be stopped.

Sparklfairy · 31/12/2021 06:17

[quote Redpoppies92]@Sparklfairy

Do you think the information I have is enough to go on? I was weighing up, short term- long term outcomes and worried about my ex getting majority custody if my claims are do not have evidence. I can pull up the dates for the paediatric appointment, the scooter incident and more recently when my son told me. I have a video of my son talking about it shortly afterwards but it may look as though I’m coaching him into saying something which again could backfire.[/quote]
I'm not sure. I don't have children so am not familiar with the process now. I did however go through this myself as a child, and I know your case is infinitely stronger if you record everything meticulously and factually, than if ex took you to court and the judge asks you why you're withholding custody, and you just say oh he hits my son, with absolutely nothing to back it up.

My outdated experience nearly 30 years ago was I was spoken to my social services. I was slightly older than your son but had younger siblings and all our accounts were taken seriously. But you need to understand that the legal advice you've had is probably based on that you have no "evidence". A detailed timeline of events still counts as evidence. Your son's words count as evidence. It sounds like your ex is arrogant and malicious enough to push this hard, so you need to do this totally by the book.

mathanxiety · 31/12/2021 06:25

I don't think you have anything concrete to go on right now. If your ex chooses to take you to court over visitation then the judge will suspect alienation, and you will be on a sticky wicket. Is the current visitation arrangement court ordered or casual?

Maybe find a play therapist and tell him/her you suspect your ex has been slapping your DS during weekend visitation, and that he has spoken sadly to you about it. Tell the therapist that you have witnessed the treatment you describe in the supermarket (lifting by the wrist). See if the therapist can get any indications from your DS about what goes on at weekends. Be clear that this is a situation of conflict between you and your ex.

You need to get your big girl panties on and hoik them high at this point - no more calling ex for parenting advice. Look up books or parenting shows on how to deal with tantrums - there are many creative suggestions.

Try to anticipate problems, deal with them in a practical way yourself, and don't end up relying on your ex any more for shopping or trips to pediatrician or anywhere else. If your route from the supermarket is down a hill and intersects with a busy road, don't treat shopping as a fun outing with a scooter for DS. Do you have a stroller? Even if he ran off down the hill he would be in danger of being hit by traffic.

Above all, try to identify times when DS is fed, watered, and rested when you can take him out somewhere without a tantrum and without you feeling helpless.

If you had a bad experience with your ex, please, please find therapy for yourself. You may well be suffering from a high level of stress thanks to having to co-parent with a nightmare of a man, or you may even have PTSD from your experiences with him. You can be a much better parent and a much stronger advocate for your child if you deal with any issues you have first.

Flowers
mathanxiety · 31/12/2021 06:38

It sounds like your ex is arrogant and malicious enough to push this hard, so you need to do this totally by the book.

Agree 100% with this.

Please hold off on any plans you may have until you can talk to your lawyer. In particular, please do not withhold visitation and please do not call child protection services. Your ex could easily claim you are interfering with his access to the child without any reason, using child protective services to harass him, etc. He could easily turn it around on you and have them knocking on your door. The claim of alienation is the thing you need to be most careful about. Don't expose yourself to that accusation.

You really are stuck between a rock and a very hard place here, but you need to be patient.

Have you ever spoken with the mother of the half sister about his parenting style?

It seems to me that you might gain insight into what's going on if the two of you compared notes.

She may well have compromising material held over her too, in order to make her co-operate with her child's visitation, so it may well be that she isn't willing to be drawn into anything going on between you and the ex. Reassure her than you are just trying to see if your observations are anything like hers, so you can establish a clearer picture of him as a parent over time.

mathanxiety · 31/12/2021 06:40

Excellent advice from wildseas