DD3 has a new friend with possible SEN DH doesn't approve

[ToPlayOrNotToPlay]

NC for this as it feels a bit sensitive.

DD is 3, there's a play activity she goes to once a week that she's been going to for about a month now. At this group she's made a new friend who's the same age as her. He's a lovely boy and they get on really well together and are very affectionate with each other. However they both get really overexcited together as well and cause a bit of chaos.

They're probably going to end up at the same primary school together. On the whole DD is pretty well behaved, usual 3 yr old dramas but always get positive feedback from nursery that she's always on the go but is good and follows instructions. When DD is with her new friend she doesn't listen at all, he is suspected of having autism and/or adhd and will literally run around shouting and jumping and stomping which she joins in with. I am happy with her being friends with him, I think they clearly get on and it's good to know that not everyone is the same and people have different strengths and that it's good to have friends who you get on with,but I need to figure out how to explain to her that some of his behaviours it's not OK to do. She thinks well he's not getting in trouble so I can do it too, joins in and it escalates to them both being chaotic. There's a part of the group where they need to sit reasonably quietly for a story and they're really disruptive together.

DH thinks we need to distance her as he worrys her behaviour will change and she's obviously too young to understand that when he does it he's not being naughty but when she does she is. He thinks her being friends with him at school is a bad idea in the long run which I completely disagree with as they clearly like each others company, but I do see his point about her being easily led and his worry that she'll be perceived as 'naughty'

What do you think, is DH right? And how do explain to her that she's not allowed to run around shouting during quiet time but that he still does without making him sound 'different' to her.

she's obviously too young to understand that when he does it he's not being naughty but when she does she is.

Or perhaps she has SEN too? Girls can have ADHD, ASD, etc too you know. They are often forced to mask though by being told they are “naughty”.

**“Dh just gets quite anxious himself and on the weeks he's taken her he finds it difficult as he feels like everyone is looking and judging him for not 'controlling' her”

@ToPlayOrNotToPlay And how does your husband think us SEN parents feel every minute of every day? We didn’t choose this. He’s just another person feeding the problem.

Children imitate, behaviour is learnt through what they see. I'd be concerned too.

And how does your husband think us SEN parents feel every minute of every day? We didn’t choose this. He’s just another person feeding the problem.

But you feel that your responsibility is to get the best possible future for your child. Every parent feels like that. Isn't the op's husband entitled to worry about his daughters future if she learns bad behaviour?

@madisonbridges rubbish. Its nothing to do with behavior issues for goodness sake the children are 3 doing normal 3 year old behavior. Op dh just dosnt want his dd to play with the special needs child. Sorry yes I do judge people who isolate and ostracize people with struggles and differences and everyone else should too. I'm not interested in op dh judging this boy I still think he's being a twat. Op can dress it up as she likes but its very obvious to anyone with sen children whats going in here.

@Amazingblossoms

Ah, so this is why I have no 'parent friends' and my child is socially ostracised?

Thanks for confirming my suspicions

I know, it's so depressing isn't it.

This is what happened to my little boy a lot at preschool and in reception. Actually I think the truth of it wasn’t that my child got away with things and so other children joined in, it was actually that other children were just being mischievous/pushing boundaries as kids do.

A good teacher or playgroup leader should be able to encourage all children to sit nicely when able. So if your child is able to sit nicely then they should be encouraged to do so and not join in with the other boy. Many three year olds push boundaries and it can be dealt with. You can escort her back to the place she’s supposed to be and say no we are doing xyz now, you are joining in with this. Rather than letting her join in with him then ‘distancing’ her from him as if he’s some bad influence.

So I suppose what I’m saying is you need to separate your daughter’s misbehaviour from this boy’s difficulties. She knows what the right thing to do is so don’t say she’s just doing it because he is and ending their friendship will solve it.

Instead, work on teaching your daughter to do the right thing or what she’s supposed to be doing regardless of what others are doing.

@Arren12. The op has said that the 3yo boy behaves 'badly' and that her normally well behaved daughter is joining in and changing her behaviour. The op doesn't want her daughter to do that. You have no cause to say that her husband doesn't want her to play with any SEN child. Simply neither parent want her to behave like the young boy. For you to state that he is prejudiced against all SEN people is totally unreasonable and actually shows more prejudice than you accuse the husband of.

[quote madisonbridges]@Arren12. The op has said that the 3yo boy behaves 'badly' and that her normally well behaved daughter is joining in and changing her behaviour. The op doesn't want her daughter to do that. You have no cause to say that her husband doesn't want her to play with any SEN child. Simply neither parent want her to behave like the young boy. For you to state that he is prejudiced against all SEN people is totally unreasonable and actually shows more prejudice than you accuse the husband of.[/quote]
So why mention Sen at all? It's clearly a factor.

We're not stupid

The DH is getting unfairly criticised here. He’s just a parent who wants his daughters behaviour to be the best it can be. His initial reaction to this problem might be less than perfect, but none of us are perfect parents that get every issue right first time and it doesn’t sound like he’s completely lacking in compassion for the other family.

My son is Autistic and fits your description of the boy. I too find this thread heartbreaking.
What I would say though is that my son is different. Since she was little my daughter has understood this. I don't see identifying difference as negative ( I also don't see him being autistic as negative) and would encourage any parents to talk openly about how we are all different and that's a good thing. Get your daughter to focus on following the lead of everyone else in the class. And get your DH to stop limiting his daughters friends because he's worried about what other people think. That's sad for her.

It’s never too early to learn fair is not the same as everyone has to do the same. Mostly children have no problem understanding this, they’re parents tend to be harder. She knows babies are allowed to shit in their nappies and drink milk instead of eating at table. She knows Daddy can drive the car and she can’t. She knows boys pee standing up and girls sit. Just tell her she has to sit and xxxx’s mum will tell him what he has to do.

@TheYearOfSmallThings

To be honest if she's a bit of a live wire and playing with any particular child always ends in chaos and ignoring adults, I would keep them apart. I have done in fact - no SEN but a very active and unruly child, who my DS was starting to emulate.

I also think this boy's parents are doing him no favours by letting him run wild. None of the SEN kids I know are just let loose - their parents work extremely hard to prevent this.

I agree with this.

It is a difficult situation but if your daughter is copying this disruptive behaviour, I can't see it ending well for her. You will have to make it clear that what the other child does is not acceptable behaviour in a school environment. It doesn't matter that he has SN - children just cannot be disruptive like that in school. It is not fair on anyone.

@amazingblossoms I mentioned the SEN because I know he's not being 'naughty' and wanted to make that clear, but when my DD joins in she is being because I know she behaves in other settings. The SEN was mentioned because it's difficult to know how to explain to a 3yr old and I was looking for advice.

DH does have compassion, it's just he tends to think in terms of - problem is when DD plays with Clive, DD stops listening and starts misbehaving, solution is therefore stop DD mixing with Clive.

I don't think it's that simple as they are friends and she'll have other friends in the future who may not behave in the way we want her too, so was reaching out for tips which I've received, and the realisation that I'm overthinking it and just need to deal with DD as i have been and would in any other scenario and hope it sinks in over time and she learns to still be able to behave and not just copy others.

@Amazingblossoms
So why mention Sen at all? It's clearly a factor.
We're not stupid.

I haven't read your posts so I'm guessing that you have an SEN child and you're matching your reactions to theirs. Nobody is implying you're stupid. What I'm stating outright is that Arren is prejudiced in their statement that the ops husband is against ALL SEN children. He has seen a problem that when his daughter plays with this little boy, her behaviour changes for the worse. He doesn't want that so he has suggested the stance that if she doesn't play with this particular little boy, her behaviour will remain as it is. It's a simplistic response but nowhere is there any hint that if the little boy was an SEN child without behavioural issues (difficult to separate out from being a 3yo, I know) that he would be unhappy about their friendship.
The op has stated clearly why she mentioned SEN. So again I don't think you're stupid but I do think that you are projecting an intent onto the ops husband which you have absolutely no idea is true or not.

[quote madisonbridges]@Amazingblossoms
So why mention Sen at all? It's clearly a factor.
We're not stupid.

I haven't read your posts so I'm guessing that you have an SEN child and you're matching your reactions to theirs. Nobody is implying you're stupid. What I'm stating outright is that Arren is prejudiced in their statement that the ops husband is against ALL SEN children. He has seen a problem that when his daughter plays with this little boy, her behaviour changes for the worse. He doesn't want that so he has suggested the stance that if she doesn't play with this particular little boy, her behaviour will remain as it is. It's a simplistic response but nowhere is there any hint that if the little boy was an SEN child without behavioural issues (difficult to separate out from being a 3yo, I know) that he would be unhappy about their friendship.
The op has stated clearly why she mentioned SEN. So again I don't think you're stupid but I do think that you are projecting an intent onto the ops husband which you have absolutely no idea is true or not.[/quote]
If you're going to go off at me at least have the decency of reading my posts first

@Amazingblossoms. Where have I 'gone off' at you? Where have I said anything nasty? I addressed a comment to Arren12 and you responded to it using the pronoun 'we' which means that you speak for both of you and had aligned your thoughts to those of Arren. Therefore I replied as if Arren had replied. Was I wrong to assume you had an SEN child and you felt the ops husband was bring discriminatory? I didn't see any direct post from you on this page. Why should I have to scan back through pages of posts when it was you who replied to my post to someone else?

3yo is plenty old enough to sort still and listen for 5 minutes to a story it sing songs. I work in Early Years and expect this from 3. If your DD is spoiling it for others, I can see why Dh it's getting annoyed. He shouldn't adjust his expectations of her because of her friend, that's doing her a disservice. She does need to learn to not be distracted and I would suggest he talks to her beforehand and reminds her that if she is messing around when she should be listening then just take her out of the room or go home. There is no need to separate her (although I would probably sit her on my lap on the floor) but if the other child's parents want to deal with it differently then so be it.

My DS has autism, was very obvious from an early age. I hated going to toddler groups as other parents were very judgmental and I felt ostracised because my child wouldn't join in. There was one parent who was kind to me, she made me feel welcome and my child was not some sort of oddity. Be that person.

When DS started reception, he would roar like a dinosaur to say hello as he couldn't speak. Everyone would pull their child away and tell them not to play with him. There was an incident where a child was attacking other children, but nobody was told who the child. It was automatically assumed it was my DS. It most certainly was not. Although he has autism, he has never struck a child, not everyone with a SN also has challenging behaviour or physically attacks those around them.

My other DC have grown up knowing from a young age that their brother does things differently to them. I've always said (to his siblings and their friends) that his brain works differently and he doesn't understand rules like they do. This has been from pre reception age.

Your DD will come across many children with SN during her time at school. She is at a great age for her to learn acceptance of a SN rather than for it to be something she should stay away from.

Finally, not all your DDs behaviour will be just because she is playing with a child with DN. Perhaps some of his behaviour is because he is copying her?

Ha I am wondering how many of the mums on here thinking that the DH is an awful person for not being “inclusive” enough practice what they preach?! Autism/adhd clearly aren’t contagious but behavioural traits are a mixture of nature AND nurture so I think it’s perfectly natural he’s concerned about this.

@Amazingblossoms me too. As my middle DS has got older and the difference has become more obvious we find ourselves left off the list when it comes to invitations. I literally can't imagine the dilemmas some people face about which party to go to as (other than seeing family) we are always home alone, again, for the major social events. It's been very obvious on social media over Halloween and bonfire night. A few years ago my oldest DS had a little party, no one came despite saying they would. It nearly destroyed him self esteem wise and he really struggles socially. All I will say is if you do decide to ban this friendship do it now so no one gets their hopes built up.

@SweetBabyCheeses99

Ha I am wondering how many of the mums on here thinking that the DH is an awful person for not being “inclusive” enough practice what they preach?! Autism/adhd clearly aren’t contagious but behavioural traits are a mixture of nature AND nurture so I think it’s perfectly natural he’s concerned about this.

Are you really suggesting very young children with delayed development are unable to sit quietly and concentrate because their parents aren't raising them right? I hope I'm misunderstanding what you're implying here.

@SweetBabyCheeses99

Ha I am wondering how many of the mums on here thinking that the DH is an awful person for not being “inclusive” enough practice what they preach?! Autism/adhd clearly aren’t contagious but behavioural traits are a mixture of nature AND nurture so I think it’s perfectly natural he’s concerned about this.

Autism/adhd clearly aren’t contagious but behavioural traits are a mixture of nature AND nurture so I think it’s perfectly natural he’s concerned about this.

Wow. I don't even know where to start with this so I'll leave it to people who will be able to articulate how offensive it is.

Please don't stop their friendship.

Go over and explain its time to sit down now and move her. If she says Harry isn't, tell her we'll maybe Harry will follow but now you need to do it, or similar.

Your DH is ignorant at best. Thankfully, he's not the one at group