DD3 has a new friend with possible SEN DH doesn't approve

[ToPlayOrNotToPlay]

NC for this as it feels a bit sensitive.

DD is 3, there's a play activity she goes to once a week that she's been going to for about a month now. At this group she's made a new friend who's the same age as her. He's a lovely boy and they get on really well together and are very affectionate with each other. However they both get really overexcited together as well and cause a bit of chaos.

They're probably going to end up at the same primary school together. On the whole DD is pretty well behaved, usual 3 yr old dramas but always get positive feedback from nursery that she's always on the go but is good and follows instructions. When DD is with her new friend she doesn't listen at all, he is suspected of having autism and/or adhd and will literally run around shouting and jumping and stomping which she joins in with. I am happy with her being friends with him, I think they clearly get on and it's good to know that not everyone is the same and people have different strengths and that it's good to have friends who you get on with,but I need to figure out how to explain to her that some of his behaviours it's not OK to do. She thinks well he's not getting in trouble so I can do it too, joins in and it escalates to them both being chaotic. There's a part of the group where they need to sit reasonably quietly for a story and they're really disruptive together.

DH thinks we need to distance her as he worrys her behaviour will change and she's obviously too young to understand that when he does it he's not being naughty but when she does she is. He thinks her being friends with him at school is a bad idea in the long run which I completely disagree with as they clearly like each others company, but I do see his point about her being easily led and his worry that she'll be perceived as 'naughty'

What do you think, is DH right? And how do explain to her that she's not allowed to run around shouting during quiet time but that he still does without making him sound 'different' to her.

@Mummyoflittledragon his mum does, I think my DD is pretty high energy as well but she does listen most of the time.

I think my title was a little harsh on DH he just struggles when he feels like people think he's being a shit parent. I think oh well if people are looking anyone who gets upset about 3 yes olds running around have a problem not me, however he just sees the other kids sat nice and quiet while these 2 charge around. Some of the parents do give judgey looks, I just think oh well if you don't get that he isn't at a sitting still stage and she's charging around with him then you're the ridiculous one, not me. However he just feels uncomfortable. He's fine with her charging around on the whole just not when everyone else is sat still and listening. It's like a community toddler group rather than a specific play place if that makes any difference.

I just figured that if I knew how to get her to still listen then he could do the same and would find it easier and then it wouldn't be an issue.

Your DH is going to have to get to grips with this belief that other parents are judging him. Because they are. All parents judge other parents, MN wouldn't exist if they didn't. He needs to grow a thicker skin because it's not fair to ask his dd to conform to strangers' expectations.

Imagine if he were Greta Thunberg's dad (as an example to help frame how unhelpful this anxiety is). Would he be proud of her or would he be locking her in the house in case Janet next door thought she was too opinionated?

Thanks @NoSquirrels she tells him to sit, be quiet, do what such a person is doing, I have no issue with her, I'm hoping if the kids are friends we'll become friends but to me all she's said is he gets over excited, I overheard her telling the group leader he's being assessed for autism and adhd, I don't feel I can mention it as it wasn't said to me it was a conversation I overheard. When I've mentioned how lovely it is they are so fond of each other but they are so excitable together she just says yes he does tend to get overexcited, nothing else, so that makes me feel like it's not sometimes I could just have an open discussion about. If she spoke about it I'd just ask what she thought would make quiet time easier, would she like us to sit separate for that part.

Also taking on what others have said, she's 3, it's fine for her to be a bit wild, it doesn't mean she'll have issues at school, I think we're maybe overrthinkhing it.

There were some parents like your DH at my DS’s school. Luckily they were in the minority and most were extremely inclusive and accepting of his autism and related behaviours.

In that case, as you don’t know anything official about a potential diagnosis and by his mum’s admission he can be over excitable, just focus on your own child. Just parent as you would if you didn’t think you were somehow being discriminatory. You don’t pass judgement on him by asking your DD to sit down and pay attention.

She's 3, not 13, I really don't think 'friends' are such a big influence on behaviour, the important thing is that she has good behaviour modelled at home - having a friend who is a bit different won't hurt, and will ultimately help both children, and friend's mum who, as others have pointed out, is probably already worried that her child won't make friends, and that she might not make parent friends because of possible SEN.

How do you usually parent her when she wants to do X and you want/need her to do Y? Do that.

As a mother of a nearly 3 year old son with ASD and suspected ADHD, this absolutely breaks my heart.

I cry myself to sleep every night knowing that my son will face this kind of isolation and attitude for the rest of his life.

Thank goodness your ‘D’H was lucky enough to have a neurotypical child otherwise I dread to think what that poor child would have faced from its own father.

You have this as a parent even if the other kid doesn’t have SN. Last night at fireworks some kids were going out of bounds, my 3 yo wanted to but you just explain that that’s your rules and they’re not allowed. Obviously harder once they’re at school and you’re not. But that’s far in the future when you’re 3. School is a year away.

To add, I would definitely let them keep playing together and being friends. It’s obviously beneficial for both of them. But you just enforce your rules on your kid as you would usually.

My DS now a teen is a very intelligent boy and since reception he has made lots of close friendships with DC with all sorts of SEN over the years.

They're human beings and if they get on and like each other then so be it.

Your post literally could be describing my DS. In fact the only reason I know it’s not about my son is because I no longer have the courage to take him out to groups etc and that’s because of this exact reason.

One of my dd's best friends is a boy with autism...they bring out the very best in each other. He is the loveliest little lad!
You can't pick who they like and nor should you try to micromanage them like that. What if he doesn't like the next child she befriending, or the one after that?! Where does it stop? If my mum had tried to do that, it would have pushed me closer to another child!

I think I'll carry on as I am and you're right DH needs to grow a thicker skin. The interactions have been what I would usually do, so along the lines of 'it's quiet time now' 'you need to come and sit down' 'sit down now please' ' you need to listen to mummy' 'it's time to listen to the story' and lots of praise on the occassions she is. And lots of chats after about the bits she did well and what she might do to do the quiet bit better next time.

DH just gets flustered and would rather remove her, he knows this is his issue not hers, thankfully we do have open and honest discussions and he does think I'm probably right they should stay friends but he very much worries she'll be seen as 'naughty' and he'll be seen as having a wild child and no control.

I think I got a bit worried because sometimes when I'm telling her to sit/shush/listen she'll say 'no, 'clive's' running round I want to as well' I say things like ' well you're not 'clive' and mummy is telling you it's time to listen and you want to enjoy the nice story so come and sit and listen' I think I just got in my own head wondering if this sounded like I was passing judgement on clive, or maybe making DD think Clive was being naughty, I think I'm probably just overthinking the whole thing

I'm really sorry this thread has upset so many, I do want them to stay friends I was just struggling with managing DD's behaviour and then DH feeling like he just doesn't want to take her to the group where she sees him as he finds it stressful and was hoping for some advice, thanks to those who've given it, @NoSquirrels you're responses really made me realise I'm we're just seriously overthinking the whole thing.

I sent my DC to a school which had a ASD unit within the school for when the kids had enough of the class room. All involved learnt compassion and understanding. I really hope the parents felt supported too.

Quite apart from your DH's attitude being really not OK, I think you'll find you can't control who your child makes friends with. If she and this little boy gravitate naturally towards each other now, they will probably continue to do so at primary school, and you won't be able to do much about it!

I had a very similar situation with my DD and her best friend who has probable ADHD. We went to a music group together and they'd have a whale of a time running around and joining in with the instruments etc and sometimes there'd be a bit where they'd need to be sitting down for row row your boat for example. I went with telling DD that these are our rules and you can run around but at this time you need to sit down as that's what we're doing now. Generally this helped her friend calm down and sit down - not all the time but maybe fifty percent more than he would have otherwise too. So she was modeling the behaviour we wanted but without me telling her that was what was happening. A good chunk of the time her friend would listen more to DD saying it was time to sit down than anybody else!

Oh your poor husband struggles with the idea people judge him? Oh bless him, that must be so hard to live with!! Is he getting support? Poor man, what a terrible affliction to live with, I don't know how he manages to cope!

Tell your husband cop on to himself and show a bit of compassion and care for a kid who seems to have a lovely friendship with your DD and the kids parents who are probably so happy to know he has a friend.

Thank god your DD doesn't share his close minded views.

I mean at the very least tell him have some balls and say he doesn't want his kid playing with the "weird" kid. Don't dress it up in behaviour issues.

@Arren12
Your dh is a twat sorry you married him must be awful to find out he's so discriminating.

Mumsnet is so judgemental whilst being outraged at people for being judgemental. He's not a twat. He's concerned about his daughter's behaviour for the future because allowances will not be made for her as they will for a child with SEN. His approach may be misguided but it comes from a concern rather than hate or prejudice.
Ops daughter will learn to distinguish between correct and wrong behaviours but she's only 3 so has a bit of work to do yet. I'm sure her father will soon realise that she is capable of judging appropriate behaviours for different company and settings which will make him relax more about the friendship. Some people just are more nervous and over-react about things than others and it sounds like op's husband is one of those.

OP - I say this as a parent of an autistic child - there is nothing wrong with explaining to your DD that X finds sitting still and listening harder than she does. There is also nothing wrong with you helping her understand what your expectations of her behaviour is - that's just basic parenting. Every parent at some point has to deal with the fact other children will be allowed to do things yours is not. None of that is passing judgement on X.

Your DHs attitude is just not on though.

Well… if your daughter was a little older and you could explain special needs to her & how while her friend cannot help his behaviour she can, it would be fine. But she’s too little at the moment and her friend’s behaviour sounds to be rubbing off on her. It’s tough because my initial instinct is to be inclusive, but essentially you’re not responsible for this boy’s feelings, only for your daughter’s. It’s a judgement call for you really.

[quote ToPlayOrNotToPlay]@Mummyoflittledragon his mum does, I think my DD is pretty high energy as well but she does listen most of the time.

I think my title was a little harsh on DH he just struggles when he feels like people think he's being a shit parent. I think oh well if people are looking anyone who gets upset about 3 yes olds running around have a problem not me, however he just sees the other kids sat nice and quiet while these 2 charge around. Some of the parents do give judgey looks, I just think oh well if you don't get that he isn't at a sitting still stage and she's charging around with him then you're the ridiculous one, not me. However he just feels uncomfortable. He's fine with her charging around on the whole just not when everyone else is sat still and listening. It's like a community toddler group rather than a specific play place if that makes any difference.

I just figured that if I knew how to get her to still listen then he could do the same and would find it easier and then it wouldn't be an issue.[/quote]
You have the issue correct OP.

You have to get your DD to not copy the boy, but follow the lead of everyone else in the class. It's not about keeping them apart. Just say that Clive finds it more difficult but she's not clive, as you have already done keep repeating it. Don't take the easy way out

Also DP was autistic and had no friends at school :'( he was a very sad little boy and as an adult reading his diagnostic report about social isolation was heartbreaking

*by report i mean the one where CAMHS assessed him and the impacts of his autism

My DS got his official ADHD diagnosis last week and posts like this upset me :( he's a sweet kid with a good heart and I would hate to think people adults would tell their children to avoid him.