Telling 19-year-old son to leave home

[rupes17]

This is an old problem involving a difficult boy who has in the past been a shocking, intolerable problem in so many ways. I'm his father and we recently, after a spate of lies, told him to go, but I couldn't do it without a last ditch attempt to tell him to do a behavioural 180 degree turn, with 20 conditions, or he's out - a long shot, I know, but I had to try this to exercise some integrity and compassion. My wife agreed, although for years she has taken the most trouble from him in terms of abuse (although her bad temper has sometimes kicked things off). He marginally improved but had a small slip when questioning a curfew, partly a misunderstanding, but did fall in line. My wife was upset and yesterday it kicked off when the misunderstanding blew up into a full-scale shouting match and she is now insisting he leave and that I should make him, or she will leave - with our girls. She's upset also for my not fully backing her...but I understand the slightness of the curfew slip and cannot simply say that she is right in this case, despite his past sins. It is important to say that she is fundamentally a
good woman and good mother and I love her, so this is very difficult to navigate. I need a reasonable female view because I don't want to do this without seeing if he can do what I need him to do with regard to the conditions we have set. If he fails, then that is the last chance used up and he goes. I am happy with any criticism or advice.

[quote rupes17]@ssd yes I would, if things had got this bad. I live by the conditions I expect him to do in my house.[/quote]
The difference is you have chosen those conditions, you haven't said to yourself you must be home by midnight, then when out not been able to stay later if you wanted to. Conditions is a controlling word that will get any adults back up.

There are ways to behave which everyone should be taught as a child and live by in preparation for adulthood, such as respect for each other, respect for shared areas of the home etc. So they know as an adult if they come home late - be quiet so not to disturb anyone and make sure the door is locked, setting a condition on an adult they must be home by midnight is inappropriate. If they are not quiet or dont lock the door then you talk to them, tell them the problem and the impact it is having and let them suggest an agreeable solution.

@Seemssounfair I see your point completely and respect the sound reason behind it. Really it's not the curfew itself, which, as you say, is tight, but the standard of behaviour that has led to its being imposed. The reasoning behind this is that if you don't respect other house guidelines and and expectations, and behave like a horrible child, then expect to be treated as one. Once the general standard of behaviour comes up, so the 'penalties' come down.

@rupes17 it sounds like you are stuck in a circle of him acting the prick, you and your wife reacting to it, increasing the punitive measures and him increasing to act the prick because of the punitive measures.

Does he and your wife have similar personalities? Are the equally likely to start shouting? And matters escalate?

I thought similar to @sillysmiles, sounds like you need to break the circle with a complete reset, bin all the conditions and penalties, sit down and work out how you live together while still respecting each others needs.

He is 19 years old he shouldn't be living under that same "conditions" as mature adults. He doesnt have the same responsibilities and should be encouraged to enjoy his youth, explore, and socially interact, but obviously in a way that respects the other people who live in the home.

As the mature adults you will probably need to give quite a bit as he navigates this freedom from control, have patience when he makes mistakes and discuss how you can work them out.

I feel for you. My brother was a difficult child and teenager / adult. He caused us all a lot of stress and arguments. My parents eventually kicked him out at 21yrs. I look back and I think they made mistakes on their part in how to deal with my brother and my brother too was obviously massively unreasonable. In all honesty, him leaving was the making of him in a way. He was bitter at first but grew up and took some responsibility for his ways and sorted his life out. He now enjoys a good relationship with my parents. I remember them crying the night they asked him to leave like they had failed somehow. It was an awful time. I have a little boy now and I can't imagine how difficult it would feel having to have those conversations. Heartbreaking for you all. I hope you work through it.

IME when kids are this unhappy and angry living with their parents then there's blame on both sides. But usually the parents don't like to see it this way and the blame stays on the children, or adult children.

RedMarauder

@MrsSkylerWhite and @MrsSkylerWhite the curfew may be unreasonable but so is the OP's son's violent behaviour which has left the OP's wife and daughters feeling unsafe in their own home.“

Yes I understand that. Been there, fine that, for several years. The whole family lived in a permanent state of fear, anticipating the next outburst.

At 19 though, curfew is inappropriate.

Done that

rupes17

@branleuse the curfew is part of house rules, even if they are, very occasionally, early. If he lives under our roof, then he obeys house rules, and if he's a better person generally, the rules will be relaxed for him.”

Does that apply to everyone. You and your wife?

If so, that’s just bizarre.

Just read that in this occasion the curfew was 10.30.

Sorry, that’s nuts. He’s a grown man. If you don’t like his behaviour, tell him to go. Otherwise, accept that he’s an adult.

I think the op and the mother need to look at themselves.

@ssd we have looked at ourselves and have done it over a number of years, giving and allowing greater freedom as he grew up, but the situation got so bad that we said, "if you're going to do this and disrespect the householders and the rules" (which WERE not tight) "then there are consequences" and as I said, this was to no avail.

@MrsSkylerWhite no it doesn't apply to us, but you make a good point, which wasn't lost on me from the start.

@rupes17 you've never commented on the reasoning behind the animosity between him and his mom.

@Anybridget7 thanks for the support and yes, we are trying to work through it...

He's 19, and has nowhere to go. Are the rules too strict? Cut him a bit of slack. Do you and your wife chat to him, other than to tell him off or enforce rules? Do you do things as a family, like go out for dinner or to the cinema, for example? He has a 10.30 curfew?! No wonder he's angry.

My 2 sons went through the phase of arguing and shouting, I think most young people do. They would have needed to be drug dealers, granny-bashers or kiddie-fiddlers before I ever thought of turfing them out of the home.

I think he should leave you sound like you favour your daughters and a 10.30 curfew for a 19 year old is ridiculous.

My 2 sons went through the phase of arguing and shouting, I think most young people do. They would have needed to be drug dealers, granny-bashers or kiddie-fiddlers before I ever thought of turfing them out of the home.

Doesn't sister-bashing make the list? This lad is ruling the roost by fear. Let him try that in a house share with other men.

OP, stick your hand in your pocket and pay his deposit. Maybe managed, decreasing contributions to his (hopefully, tiny boxroom) rent over the next 6 months. Perhaps he can live over the shop.

I would 100% say that you will fund the deposit and first 3 months of a house share (until jan), then perhaps 50% of the next three until easter perhaps.

Tell him you love him and he is welcome to come round for dinner a couple or indeed several nights a week but the natural order of things is that he moves out and then he can live his adult life as he sees best, which to be honest will prob be eating pot noodles and staying out all night.

Honestly, 100 years ago he’d probably have been working for five years by 19 and be married with a baby and one on the way. Children were sent out to be full time live in servants at 12. Christopher Marlowe had written all his great works and died by 29.

I’m not saying that your son should do all or indeed any of these things, or that we want to live like that in the 21st century, but if you have an angry, frustrated young man who is not particularly academically motivated and chafing under the parental roof, a seemingly feasible route is help him out into independence and let his brain start to work it out. You can always be there for support, love, advice, guidance, encouragement!

In the immortal words of mark Twain: ‘when I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But I when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in 7 years’.

Also I 100% lived this, I come from a background where you had to have a part time job in your teens no matter how affluent the families, we mostly went to uni in a different country thus enforced independence, and I waitressed my way around the world. I lived in house shares - good and bad, fun and miserable- from 18 to 27. Much of that was spent staying up to the wee hours playing music and drinking beer and having the craic - was brilliant, and awful and independence creating (wow! Making dinner for six people is hard! But I can actually do it!) all at the same time.

@sillysmiles I didn't - apologies. The animosity is borne of my son's defiant nature, which, as I've mentioned, is laced with deception and careless dismissal, devoid of empathy and receptiveness to generosity and love. Along with that, the violence in him in the past triggered my wife's anger, to the extent that his numerous transgressions now are less acceptable than the girls'. My attitude is the same, but my disposition is more balanced and I am a calmer person than she.

@Lynne1Cat he did deal drugs - last year - and I turfed him out. This is one of the reasons he is not on solid ground and will never be until he displays a respect for others and himself. We have asked him on family dinners etc. & to the pub (with me - Dad/son bonding, I hoped!) but he refuses, because "it's moist". Thanks for that advice, though - well given.

@Babyg1995 no we don't favour our daughters, but they respond to the good upbringing hey have had and still do - everyone loves them (what can we do in that respect!). We tell our son that we love him as much and that he could have everything and anything he wants (within reason, obviously) if he will toe the line. You are right that a curfew of 10:30 is silly but as I've said - this was exceptional.

@SpaceshiptoMars thanks - this will most likely be the method; I've alluded to it earlier.

@fluoropostit I absolutely love the educated way in which you have couched your responses and comments - lovely references to Marlowe and Twain. I had much that was similar to you when I was a young adult; abroad, learning, working and travelling, staying in dives and occasionally sleeping on buses! Really I'm still more of a Tom Sawyer than a Mark Twain! - and would rather my son was - enjoying his freedom away from home. Maybe this is his chance - who knows? But I was happy and, despite a pretty rubbish childhood, quite well-adjusted; something I have striven to pass on to my boy. He knows we love him and keep telling him, but I think that his going is the only way forward and hopefully, upward. He will be supported whenever he needs it.