Telling 19-year-old son to leave home

[rupes17]

This is an old problem involving a difficult boy who has in the past been a shocking, intolerable problem in so many ways. I'm his father and we recently, after a spate of lies, told him to go, but I couldn't do it without a last ditch attempt to tell him to do a behavioural 180 degree turn, with 20 conditions, or he's out - a long shot, I know, but I had to try this to exercise some integrity and compassion. My wife agreed, although for years she has taken the most trouble from him in terms of abuse (although her bad temper has sometimes kicked things off). He marginally improved but had a small slip when questioning a curfew, partly a misunderstanding, but did fall in line. My wife was upset and yesterday it kicked off when the misunderstanding blew up into a full-scale shouting match and she is now insisting he leave and that I should make him, or she will leave - with our girls. She's upset also for my not fully backing her...but I understand the slightness of the curfew slip and cannot simply say that she is right in this case, despite his past sins. It is important to say that she is fundamentally a
good woman and good mother and I love her, so this is very difficult to navigate. I need a reasonable female view because I don't want to do this without seeing if he can do what I need him to do with regard to the conditions we have set. If he fails, then that is the last chance used up and he goes. I am happy with any criticism or advice.

I replied to your previous thread as I am in a similar position to your wife. After much abuse and numerous threats directed at my daughter and I and frequent violent outbursts, I currently have no contact with my 20 year old son. My husband had less exposure to the violence and abuse so feels able to maintain contact with him. We were lucky as he had uni accommodation to go to (which I pay for) but we had to involve the police to get him to leave the house. It’s an awful situation but my daughter and I now feel safe in our own home which is such a relief. I see no happy ending for our family but I just take each day as it comes. I would love to have my son back in my life but the person he currently is bears no resemblance to the son I raised.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

(because he kept on staying out without warning, missing meals, - wasting food etc., lying about his whereabouts constantly and coming home at 2.

He’s 19🤷🏼‍♀️. Don’t make him meals. He’s old enough to vote, get married, do anything. 2 is quite early for 19.

When l was 19 it was all night parties. He’s an adult. Treat him as one.

I partied a lot at 19 too and it was fine because I had moved out of home.

OP you say your 19 year old DS has somewhere else to go. In your shoes I would let him go.

When my DS was 19. He was a college student. He relied on us to to house him and provide his meals, clothes and hobbies which we agreed to , wholeheartedly. It’s what we parents do for their kids right?

Then he began pushing boundaries - coming home later and later, with no warning, banging the front door at 3am because he forgot his key, continuing phone conversations throughout the night, keeping everyone else awake… Eventually we told him to leave (because we knew he had somewhere safe to go).

When DD reached 19 she acted in a similar way… she stayed out later and later. Me and DH stayed awake to make sure she arrived home safely. The ensuing shouting matches were inevitable I guess?

We couldn’t afford to pay for alternative accomodation for her - as much as we wanted to. DD failed to realise how much of an impact her behaviour affected other family members. We all needed to be up early in the morning for work.

I can’t tell you how relieved we all were when DD, at age 24, secured a full time job and moved out.

Raising children is the easy part. Having to deal with adult children is the toughest part of parenting. Wishing you all the best 🍀

@RedMarauder it's a good option and certainly one we've considered, so I'll see what today brings.

@BBCK thanks, we empathise with eachother and I think we will be echoing your situation in the long term.

@Bitofachinwag precisely.

@TattySlippers thanks for that - we have been strict with him but it seems that he understands nothing else - even complete freedom, which he abused. He's been away overnight and the house has sort of levitated to a happier environment without his brooding and slightly malevolent presence. It is significant in that it means we're better off apart, unfortunately.

@Branleuse

Im not sure why everyone is surprised about curfews. I wouldnt want my kid rolling in at 2am whenever they felt like it. This is one reason kids should move out if they want to party a lot.

I agree with this. My stepson makes an absolute din when he gets home, and also doesn't lock up/set the alarm properly, so if he wants to be living here, he needs to be in by the time we go to bed (luckily for him this is never before midnight) otherwise we'd be woken up by him anyway, which isn't fair if we're working the next day.

They might be adults, but they still need to be respectful of the other people in the house, and if they can't do that, they can't stay out as late as they might like. My house, my rules.

Your family pain is palpable...such a difficult situation. Your son sounds very needy but ongoing behaviour like this is destructive for all of you.
My daughter is 19 and at uni - have experienced short bouts of similar behaviour, usually due to lack of sleep, friendship worries, hunger or hormones. All pretty easy to overcome but exhausting when you are in the middle of it. You all sound at the end of your tether.
I wonder if he is really struggling to feel secure in his life. Low self confidence affects everything and it can be difficult for some to express this and use bravado instead. This is what I would try. Would it be possible for both you and your wife to.....
Ask him to come to talk to you - “Mum and I have been thinking about you and want to have a chat. I’m going out but will be back for ....o’clock so will see you downstairs then. Thanks”
Make hot drinks and biscuits - offer both your wife and son some comfort. This is also a good distraction activity and can help to break the ice if necessary.
Even though it is really hard to find positive things to say - try not to be confrontational. Dig really deep and have another biscuit!
Tell him that he is part of the family and that you love him...even if you don’t feel it.
Ask him to suggest one thing that may help the situation that you are in. Be prepared to listen to his response. Nod and listen - don’t jump in and defend yourselves.
Be prepared for the chat to be shortish and not go on too long. Nothing may be resolved but it is a start.
If at all possible, before he retreats back to his room, when he is already standing up, try to give him a hug. You may be surprised at his reaction.

@kerkyra thanks for the good wishes

@LindaEllen thank you- that's pretty much how we see it.

@123fushia it's all great advice in itself. We have tried the softly, softly, careful, affectionate and collaborative approach - he always gets bored very quickly, frustrated and just wants to drop the discussion, however we approach it. We had him assessed for mental health issues, if they could be identified, but the assessor found him to be fine...he's a charmer when it suits his purposes!

Your previous thread had a lot of good advice on it . You need to follow through and let him / make him leave. He can rent a room in a house share and get some UC to cover the rent if he cannot pay from earnings. You can help with a deposit if necessary. He needs to sort out his own math GCSE now. I think I said before that doing this might actually be the best thing for him albeit painful for you

@rupes17

He does have a midnight curfew weeknights, but this particular one was 10:30 due to extraordinary circumstances. It flared up from there. My wife's embedded enmity towards him is borne of long frustration, hurt and thwarted love, so I sympathise with that as well as see the more dispassionate view.

I am going to suggest, reading this and your defence of your wife (which is very much part of the script in situations where there is abuse, that you have a wife problem first and foremost, and your son has learned her lessons well.

Hi OP, sounds like you are all in a difficult place right now...I think you are doing the right thing with your son. He's an adult now and needs his own space. Hopefully in a few years you will look back on this period as just a blip in your relationship. I would try to keep lines of communication open, is there any chance the two of you could go out for a drink or meal? He sounds as if he feels pushed out of the family. Which is quite understandable because of his behaviour. Hope things improve for you all.

OP I think from your posts it sounds like you and your wife have been supportive parents and tried lots of different strategies. I think it is time for the son to move out. Many people move out at 18 / 19 for university or into a house share so I don't think you are kicking him out young. I think he needs to stand on his own 2 feet and get a job and not be taking the piss out of his family. Good Luck it sounds really difficult. Hopefully with good communication and support still from yo in this next stage of his life this will help him grow up into a better person.

Yes I would also second trying to have a discussion with your son just you and him and check there isn't anything else going on with him.

20 conditions??

I mean FFS

Do you live with 20 conditions imposed on you, or your wife with the temper?

Thought not.

We had a similar experience with our daughter (who years in is a fabulous young woman) so I understand where you and your wife are coming from.

That said, 19 is no age to be under curfew, he’s a man not a child. So in this instance, I’d say your wife is being unreasonable. I understand why, straws/camels backs, but unreasonable nonetheless.

20 conditions and a midnight curfew at 19 😮

You may find his behaviour improves if you treat him like an adult. Most 19 year olds would lash out due to struggling to with how to handle being under such tight control effectively. If you haven't been loosening the apron strings and giving him more automony gradually over the last few years you need to take some ownership of where you are now.

@MrsSkylerWhite and @MrsSkylerWhite the curfew may be unreasonable but so is the OP's son's violent behaviour which has left the OP's wife and daughters feeling unsafe in their own home.

@ssd yes I would, if things had got this bad. I live by the conditions I expect him to do in my house.

@RedMarauder you're right but I do know the strength of my wife's reaction is harsh...but I have to stick by her and my girls in view of the general sins of my son.

@Seemssounfair understand your points - we have given him plenty of freedom and help and love but to no avail, which is why it's come to this.

@WhatMattersMost yes no doubt there are elements of his behaviour which stem from both her and I (there were small issues for me from my parents) but there's a point at which he should have grown up for himself, but hasn't, and it becomes impossible to deal with.