DD (17) is very unhappy and she does not accept any offer of help

[TheNewKaren]

My DD has been increasingly unhappy for quite some time. She is telling me, nothing makes her happy, she does not like to do any activities, on holiday she does not want to leave the hotel room, she prefers to sit at home all the time. I totally get it that it may be easier for her to speak to somebody else, but she does not want to do this either. I set up counselling for her, but she has to attend the sessions and she is not doing this. I am probably talking too much, and I’m probably not saying the right things. I don’t know what to do. Our lives revolve around this and this is consuming all her live, her engergy all our engergy and all our lives. How can I persuade her to get the help she needs?

Would she engage (initially anyway) if the counseling was via Zoom or something? Think young people are utilizing this more than other demographics and for some it’s getting them engaged with help where they previously wouldn’t.
Though she expresses that no activities make her feel happier, having a daily routine and scheduling some activities- some physical exercise , something purposeful would be somewhere to start. No one really gets better sitting in a room by themselves.

I hope she accepts some help and improves. Sending hugs xxx

Explain to her that you don't have to like something to make it worth doing, especially when you are depressed. It is vital to go through the motions of things you know are good for you, such as getting daily fresh air and exercise, basic self care and some very low effort socialising (meeting a friend for a quick coffee or going to the cinema with family).
Encourage her to do them anyway, even though she has no desire to and even though she may not feel better during or after them, for now. They will have a cumulative effect. Especially the exercise.

She could have a look at Kooth (kooth.com). It’s a website providing online support for young people’s mental health. My teenage niece found it useful.

I’ve had a similar experience with my recently turned 18 DS. There was a point in his childhood where he started to get fairly withdrawn and was interested in nothing. Wouldn’t work at school or college. Just about scraped a pass at college.
It came to a head over the last few weeks when he’d had a bit too much to drink while out with college friends. I was called to collect him and on the way back we had a bit of a chat which culminated in lots of tears from him about not knowing what he was doing, didn’t know what he liked , didn’t have many friends, etc etc. Things improved a bit but he still had no get up and go, and would spend all day in his room/ watching tv/ Xbox etc. I think a lot of it stems from low self esteem and being too afraid of failing to give things a go.
Another big breakdown after a row with his Dad about ‘putting him under too much pressure’ and ‘having too high Expectations’ and all of us ended up in tears. It was awful to see him so upset and felt like we’d failed him.
I think the shock of it woke him up a bit and he’s made a big effort to be more positive and cheerful. I’d explained that even if he was very fed up and didn’t like anything , it was very much his choice on how he handled that - he could stay where he was or make an effort to be more positive and give things a go.
Pushing him to get a part time job (min wage, but it’s a start and low pressure) seems to have really helped and it really feels like we’ve turned a corner. Early days yet though

I was almost at the point of arranging counselling for him , but he wouldn’t have wanted to go .

I don’t know if any of this was relevant but I wanted to let you know that you and your DD are not alone - it’s a fairly common thing for teens to have a longish spell of listlessness - made worse by all the exam results and uni places FB posts! I firmly believe that they generally get there in the end but finding the balance to support them is tough

@TheNewKaren

My DD has been increasingly unhappy for quite some time. She is telling me, nothing makes her happy, she does not like to do any activities, on holiday she does not want to leave the hotel room, she prefers to sit at home all the time. I totally get it that it may be easier for her to speak to somebody else, but she does not want to do this either. I set up counselling for her, but she has to attend the sessions and she is not doing this. I am probably talking too much, and I’m probably not saying the right things. I don’t know what to do. Our lives revolve around this and this is consuming all her live, her engergy all our engergy and all our lives. How can I persuade her to get the help she needs?

Does your daughter have friends OP? Does she feel socially awkward because of her appearance? I remember being a teenager all too well

Thank you all.
She has friends, she attends a good school and has been getting good grades. Every one and then she meets up with her friends, but then withdraws completely. When I make a huge effort she is going out with us (if not, either her brother or I stay at home with her) and is smiling. But it’s getting worse and COVID has of course contributed to her preference to stay at home. But every little thing is becoming a huge obstacle. She won’t sit outside in the garden (there is complete privacy on our terrace, nobody can see her), she will tell me off for even saying her name in public. She will find reasons for immediately going indoors, going home, not speaking. She is making an issue out of everything and finding reasons for being unwell every minute of the day and making me run around after her, fetching her things, making her breakfast, running her errands and finding things she might want to eat / or not. It does not sound nice the way I describe it, but it’s more than that, but I don’t know why she behaves like this. She is totally apathetic and does not see to care about anything or anybody. I know that this is not true. I am desperate to get help.

Kooth is a good idea, I have tried to encourage zoom counselling. She has tried chat, but did not respond to any of the questions and ended the chat.

I don't know what to say because I am not qualified in any way apart from I have been a mother of a teenage girl.

I have to ask though..why are you making so much fuss around her? It seems to me like you are magnifying everything by questioning her behaviour, and as for running around after someone fully capable of looking after herself, you are enabling her and allowing her to bully you.

I would say to step back and let her do her own thing. If she not want to be with you, then so be it. Stop beating yourself up so much, and stop allowing her to beat you up mentally.

Anordinarymum You don’t understand the issue. If I didn’t keep her going, she would not even get out of bed anymore. She doesn’t care if she eats or anything else.

Your old school attitude is not appropriate.
‘If she doesn’t want to be with you’? Who even said that? Please don’t apply your own experience to mine. This is not AIBU.

And her appearance is perfectly fine. She is very pretty. Appearance has nothing to do with this. Again, not appropriate and your experience, possibly very long ago, is not one shoe fits all.

Actually, OP, I think you are being too quickly dismissive of @Anordinarymum's suggestions. I speak as someone who has suffered severe depression. It turns you into a very selfish person, especially at that age, and sometimes you need your 'helper' to cut through the fog and say: This is hurting me too! I'm wrung out. I can't do this any more.

I do know there's a very fine line, and it's not fair to say to a depressed person 'pull your socks up' or 'snap out of it' because we would if we could, if that's all it took. But equally, in my long experience, I have come to recognise it as a battle. You have to fight the beast, really hard, or it does take over. And the only way to do that is in tiny incremental steps.

It will help her to be given a name for the way she is feeling. To be told: this isn't you. It's depression. It's an illness and we have to fight it with every weapon available. Ask her how she'd prefer to be feeling, thinking, behaving, what she'd prefer to be doing with her life, if she could wave a wand. Tell her it's possible that all of what she wants can happen. This will pass, but together with you she has to make it pass. she has to create her self a Get Well programme.

And that programme does include an hour of sunlight every day. An hour's exercise in or outside. Small, manageable chunks of socialising each week. Some mental health training, either with a counsellor or Self Help if she prefers to start privately. And two other things, both of which can be crucial to healing.

One is giving to the community in some way - helping out in some charity, planting community gardens or litter picking or helping at an animal shelter - some way in which her contribution helps someone not in any way linked to her.

And the other is doing things that might be fun with zero expectation of them instantly curing her. Just doing them for the sake of it, because she might discover something that sparks her interest. Don't push too hard on that one. She can try very easy things first like watching a box set or listening to music from a different genre or era. But bit by bit she might try a new sport or hobby or get a PT job or care for animals while friends are on holiday etc. Just to show her she is valuable in the world. She matters. And the world is full of things to explore and do that will give her meaning and joy in time.

It's important she feels under zero pressure to feel happy at any point during this healing period. She's allowed to feel sad and angry - valid emotions. But ask her to honour her obligations to herself to give it a try - starting with very gentle, easy things. You could help her make lists of easy things, mid range things and things she'd like to do but doesn't feel up to yet so she sees her progress.

leavesthataregreen I agree with you on all counts. Thank you for your insight. This is the part that I don’t get - I am not in her head.

I went through the softly softly approach with ds for a long time. I wanted to keep things calm, not create extra stress but ultimately this did not work. We walked on eggshells all the time and it was exhausting. It was only when ds broke down and fell apart that he was able to talk about what was really going on and I was able to say that I could not cope for much longer. I would support him in any way to get better, made an appointment with GP and took him there but and it was a big but, he needed now to do his part and do all he could to start getting better. I would love him and care for him but he needed to help himself. I cannot tell you where you will go or how it will work out but I do know it is so hard to navigate. Too harsh you feel guilty too soft and you worry you are enabling. Just keep offering love, options for help and get some support yourself. My ds has antidepressants and it has made a huge difference, he is not cured but he is more able to deal with his feelings and I feel more able to talk to him without worry.

@TheNewKaren

Anordinarymum You don’t understand the issue. If I didn’t keep her going, she would not even get out of bed anymore. She doesn’t care if she eats or anything else.

Your old school attitude is not appropriate.
‘If she doesn’t want to be with you’? Who even said that? Please don’t apply your own experience to mine. This is not AIBU.

I am so awfully sorry if I caused offence. I did not mean to. Like I said I am not qualified and no -I did not have problems like this with my daughter. I had others though.. don't all parents of teenagers get put through the mill at one time or another?

I was trying to understand.
What I would say now, is perhaps you could implement some boundaries in tiny ways so she realises she has to engage if she wants something instead of making demands?
You said she didn't want to leave the hotel or join in activities.
I misread that as her not wanting to be with you/her family.
I have thought about you all day today and then when I read your response I suddenly realised the pain you must be in.

If this were me, I would talk to my doctor.

Hope you manage to get the help she needs. x x

Blood test to check for anaemia folate or vit d deficiency. Deficiencies (which are common in teen girls) can contribute to apathy hopelessness and lethargy. Lack of sunlight often builds a vit D deficiency over time. This is what happened to my 17 year old son. My daughter I have been supplementing as a result..

@Anordinarymum is right. Unfortunately, you are part of the problem (which you do seem to have acknowledged).

Make a GP appointment for her. She needs blood tests to check for any physical factor that may be contributing, plus she may be a candidate for antidepressants.

How much is she eating? Has she lost weight?

Vitamin D deficiency is unfortunately a good point. I encourage her to spend time outdoors, but she is not interested. We have a GP appointment coming up end I will mention this to the GP.

She was happier today and had a good day. She came to the shops, even laughed about things and is planning some DIY for the weekend. But I’m not kidding myself, it’s a rollercoaster and the situation is very fragile. Counselling starting in two weeks, unfortunately private.

This is a great explanation of how depression can affect people

There is also one for people living with someone who is depressed No one can diagnose clinical depression over the internet so it’s great that she is seeing the GP. If it is depression then she may well have no motivation and in that situation I think you are managing in the right way. Clinical depression is very different to being low and fed up. I think that she shouldn’t be put under too much pressure. Exercise is good - even a small amount. Distraction too - watching TV is better than ruminating in her room. Try to go at her pace.. Hopefully she will open up to the counsellor and things move forward for you all. It’s awful worrying about children

Thanks all. We went to the GP and the referral got declined. I’m on my own again. I have organised private counselling that is covered by my insurance to an extent and we are on the waiting list for a free online service. The private counselling is starting next week.
The trouble is that I never know what is real and what are threats and if she is blackmailing me. I am always on the edge. She just made a massive scene for no reason (to the outside world), after her brother had cooked dinner and I stopped work and came out of my office. She suddenly stormed upstairs and locked herself into her room. From long and painful experience I know that there is no point in trying to persuade her to come out or speak with her. I just briefly went upstairs and told her to come down and have her dinner when she is happy to come downstairs. I just could not spend another evening outside her room trying to figure out how to communicate with her. And yet I never know if she means it, and she is really very desperate and I’m not helping.

@TheNewKaren her being pretty doesn’t discount low self esteem linked to appearance. I was very pretty as a teen, enough to do several modeling jobs, and I was still teased at school for my appearance and ended up depressed and with an eating disorder. Adolescence is a weird time and not always logical. Hope you find a way to help her soon

I get that @ThatScottishLass
My point is that she is happy with her appearance to my knowledge - this is about the only thing that she is not complaining about.
PMS makes it much much worse every month. And her addiction to marginally violent computer games. These leave her aggressive, nervous and shouty. She won’t stop playing them and there is nothing I can do. No explaining, persuading, reasoning will motivate her to not go on her games as much as she can. She eats really fast to go back to her game, she knocks everything over to get back to her game, nothing I can do about it. Come the weekend and I am still somewhat thinking, I can get a break, I don’t have to work long hours, may be enjoy a few moments of peace and quiet - I have not accounted for DD. She will do what she can to be disruptive, give me jobs to do for her all day long and if I put up resistance, she is getting angry with me, and starts crying and shutting herself away in her room, telling me how unhappy she is and there is no point in anything. Then I will do what I can to get back into her good graces. I am looking for a new job. Every time I have an interview I am up with her the night before and I have to cancel and step away from the opportunity. At the same time she is telling me we don’t have enough money and how she misses going on holiday. But if we do go on holiday, she hates every moment of it. So I’m not doing it anymore. I spent enough holidays not even being allowed to walk down to the beach and had to sit on the blanket with her all day. I have not been able to go swimming in years. I was literally sitting on the beach and not able to go to the waterfront. I have a number of counsellors, doctors and I have no clue if any of them understand the issue and how to help her.

And please don’t suggest I should just go swimming and leave her by herself. She will then simply get up and walk away and make me search for her everywhere to ensure I won’t ever do this again.

Last week, she needed massages, so I took her to the chiropractor, she could not stand her curtains anymore, I bought her new ones, she will only eat specific food items that I have to find no matter what and will not eat / wear / tolerate anything that is not exactly how she likes it. She will then be thoroughly unhappy until I find exactly what she wants.

I started reading this thread and relating to it thinking it seems quite common for teens to be feeling this way as I thought my daughter is feeling this way because she has Autism but maybe it's a teen thing. Then I read your recent posts and I have to ask if you've considered your DD may be on the spectrum? I know it's a cliche that everyone always says this on mumsnet but some of the things you've written suggest she could be.