Getting a 4yo out of the house

[CustomerRelations]

DD is 5 in Nov. She's bright, fun, amusing, good to be around and generally well behaved. I don't think she's spoiled and we set the right boundaries etc at home.

The problem is, she sometimes suddenly decides we're not going out to something and there's no budging her. Eg we'll arrange to meet friends, she'll agree to it then 5 minutes before we leave she announces she doesn't want to. Most of the time I can't bribe, coax or threaten my way out of it and she's too big to carry. I end up just cancelling plans (for DS as well) rather than having a big confrontation because she never backs down.

Any ideas? It feels wrong to let her call the shots but I also don't want to end up having a battle I can't win!

I’m sorry but I have a 4 year old and no way would she rule the roost like this! If we’re going out she doesn’t have a choice, she doesn’t have to ‘agree’ to it. She goes.

You soon won’t have anyone to meet for play dates as well if you keep cancelling last minute on the whim of a 4 year old.

What are you going to do if she decides she doesn’t want to go out to school?

I have a 4 year old who can be like this and it's a massive pain. I cancel plans if I can see that she's genuinely distressed. Otherwise I bribe and cajole. I think it's a touch of social anxiety.

I wouldn't be giving her the option to agree to it tbh. You decide and she has to go. I'd give her consequences at that age, and make sure you carry through with them.

Is it an attention thing?

Well thanks @TheGriffle, that's constructive!

@flowerpootle

I have a 4 year old who can be like this and it's a massive pain. I cancel plans if I can see that she's genuinely distressed. Otherwise I bribe and cajole. I think it's a touch of social anxiety.

I agree.

I know other 4yos are not like it. She will simply refuse to put her shoes on or leave the house. Forcing them on her results in them being taken off. Forcing her out results in a lot of screaming, throwing herself to the floor etc. I have a 2yo to deal with as well.
I think it started in lockdown when I didn't care that much if we did the same old walk around the block and didn't have the energy to put up much of a battle.
What kind of consequences do you apply?

Agree that she doesn’t get the choice. She goes. You can give her some choice about the matter by saying “ Blue coat or red?”, “ Wellies or trainers?”, etc.

I would pack yourself and ds up and tell her your leaving and she can either come with or stay there on her own. My kids would race to follow. I'm not sure how you got to the point of giving her the option to refuse to go out. Pick her up and put her in a pushchair/ carseat.

I think it would help to understand more about why it happens before considering consequences. Have you spoken to her about it? If she’s getting genuinely anxious it’s (in my view) a different situation than if she’s being stroppy.

That's really tough. Is she saying why she doesn't want to go? Do you think it's because she wants to stay and watch tv/play with her toys or is she anxious about being in that particular situation and it's only when it's getting closer to the time that she realises the implication of going.
If she is generally well behaved and isn't so rigid in other areas I wonder could you work on preparing her to leave the house earlier and see how she gets on.
Get her a little backpack and let her pack it a little while before you leave, she can fill it with whatever things she feels is important - be prepared for the most random of items. But this is to give her a sense of being in control of something. Ask her to be in charge of something you need to do before leaving, could be anything from checking if the windows are closed to giving you your keys and purse. Try add choices, e.g we are meeting aunt X in the playground , when you get there would you like to play on the swings first or the slide? She is at the age where she is beginning to realise she can extert control over situations so I'd try give her that sense of control but in little ways that you are comfortable with. None of this may work but it's worth a shot.

@Finfintytint that wouldn't get anywhere, I know it works with toddlers but she's beyond that, she'll just say she's not going

@YoComoManzanas she doesn't go in the pushchair, she's nearly 5. I could not physically force her into the car any more. Most of the time she kicks off when we're going somewhere on foot. She would let me and DS leave the house without her then I'd have to back down and it would be worse.

Thanks, I think I'm turning into one of those defensive OPs who is set on arguing that there's no solution!

She's much more like a primary school child than a toddler. I'm pretty sure it's more stroppiness than anxiety, she just likes staying in and playing with toys but I think she should get more fresh air and exercise.

What kind of consequences do you have for a child this age? I think we might end up with some kind of reward chart. I confiscate toys or give her a time out as an immediate consequence when she fights with her brother or misbehaves, it's hard to think of an immediate consequence for not leaving the house. Maybe we'll have to work longer term and say she can't have the next exciting thing she's looking forward to.

I think part of the issue is the "agreeing to go" but which makes her feel like she has power. Fine if we're talking you three going for a walk,but YOU have made a commitment on her and the toddlers behalf, its up to you to keep it.

What are the consequences when she refuses? What do you do at home instead?

The warning here is I'll count to 5 / shouting bye and we're leaving (ds is 6)
Consequences would be that we don't then spend the time doing something fun. Let me he 2 yo play. She can sit on the sofa quietly with no telly.

I use sweets. Judge away....

Is she feeling particularly anxious about starting school at the moment OP? Presumably she starts Reception this/next week? Just wondering if that might be contributing to her wanting to feel like she can control the situation!

I guess I could be more assertive with the language. I think it's fair enough that there are kids she's more or less keen on mixing with, that's part of making friends. I'll say 'would you like to see x friend this afternoon in the park' and she will say yes, then change her mind.

Consequence is usually a bit of a confrontation, then we play at home. She doesn't get to watch telly or anything instead but she's quite happy playing and I can't exactly get her to sit in silence all afternoon. I think I do need stronger consequences.

I don't think it's about starting school, she's done it through a fair bit of the last year or so. She would occasionally do it about going to nursery, it ended up that I or DH would take her on her own as it would not have been possible to talk her down with DS around. We never let her stay home but she was late for nursery a couple of times.

My eldest is like this and he's 8. The good (??) thing is he hates being left alone in the house, so if I did go without him, he would come running after me.

I just ignore the morning and complaining. Complaining is not going to change the situation is my mantra. I have been known to threaten to send my kids into school in just their underpants. I made one walk down the street with no shoes on once. I have done plenty of manhandling into vehicles and lots of shouting when I finally lose my shit trying to get us all out of the house in the morning.

But you must stand firm and never give into them. Once you give in, you are done for because they know the whinging gets what they want.

I have previously made her come out with no shoes on. And I've also left the house and gone to a social thing with DS, leaving her home with DH wfh to supervise. I think I'm coming across as a flippy-floppy mum on here, I'm not really! We have fairly cast iron bedtime routine, rules on TV and snacks etc.

I guess no matter how much she digs in, I'll have to dig in further!

@YoComoManzanas

I would pack yourself and ds up and tell her your leaving and she can either come with or stay there on her own. My kids would race to follow. I'm not sure how you got to the point of giving her the option to refuse to go out. Pick her up and put her in a pushchair/ carseat.

@YoComoManzanas

And what happens if she agrees to staying there by herself? What do you do then? Leave her there? Don’t make threats you can’t follow through with.

My DD3 refused to get her leggings and shoes on to leave the house. So I packed them in a bag and put her in the car kicking and screaming. I then made her walk in to nursery (3 meters) without the leggings and shoes on, it was raining and cold. Gave nursery her dry, clean clothes and said goodbye. That was the last time she refused to get dresses when leaving the house.

@CustomerRelations

I guess I could be more assertive with the language. I think it's fair enough that there are kids she's more or less keen on mixing with, that's part of making friends. I'll say 'would you like to see x friend this afternoon in the park' and she will say yes, then change her mind.

Consequence is usually a bit of a confrontation, then we play at home. She doesn't get to watch telly or anything instead but she's quite happy playing and I can't exactly get her to sit in silence all afternoon. I think I do need stronger consequences.

When she says yes, I'd then remind her of the last time she said yes but she refused to come and tell her that she needs to be very sure she wants to go because she can't change her mind later as that can't happen again. Give her the option to say no there and then before plans are confirmed. It's not very fair on her friend either. You say we play at home, I'd take you out of the playing altogether and get on with something else. If you have gotten to the stage of refusal after doing all the prep work/giving her plenty of notice etc,then I'd make staying at home a much more boring option.

Most of the places we go to, we walk. I have previously put her over my shoulder but she struggles and pinches, plus I can't really supervise my 2yo like that. Plus, she does not give in when we eventually get to the place. She'd get worked up and continue saying she wants to go home and trying to leave.

I think she might be more strong willed than other kids!

@UpshittsCreek I have my 2yo to think about as well, if it was just DD then I'd happily ignore her and do chores to make the point, but it's not very fair on him. TBH managing her strops is harder because he's around, I have to try to supervise him at the same time.

Could you give her the choice of going or staying and doing chores. So if she kicks off and refuses to go there is no playing, she has to dust, sweep, load the dishwasher/washing machine etc? My 5yo DS would always choose pretty much anything over chores.