At my wit's end with positive parenting 3 year old

[Escapetothecounty]

Hi all

I'm looking for either reassurance or alternatives to our current strategies for handling my 3yo. She is a very emotional and highly strung child which is the total opposite to me (I'm very level headed and calm...but I'm also an adult) so I really struggle with her behaviour and how to manage it.

Some of the time she's a total delight, really happy and funny and sweet. Other days she just seems to wake up in a stinking mood and will melt down at any tiny thing. She still has explosive tantrums (screaming, crying, throwing herself on the floor), though they have reduced to maybe a few times a week rather than multiple per day when she was 2. I feel like she should be growing out of these now (4 in December).

I've always tried hard to follow the positive parenting mantras - I never shout at her and always keep calm when she's losing it as I really feel that adding chaos to the situation doesn't help. But. It's just so difficult sometimes. She can be so rude - we went for a play date yesterday and she decided she didn't want to play with her friend and just kept shouting 'no I DON'T want to play with you' until the other little girl started crying which I found totally mortifying as it was the first time I'd met her parents. I tried to speak to her on her level, ask her to speak kindly and not shout, say it's ok if you want to play on something different but not ok to shout at people etc etc. But sometimes I feel like I'm coming across as too soft but struggle to implement appropriate 'punishments'.

What techniques would you suggest that we could try when she's playing up? She's extremely controlling at the moment, if someone doesn't respond to her immediately (e.g. if I'm talking to someone else at the time or doing something else) she'll get really angry/upset.

Honestly I'm just having one of those days where she's getting under my skin and could do with a bit of help/support/reassurance.

How to Talk so Little Kids Will Listen. Brilliant book, and we've had so much success using the ideas in there with DD who is 2.5. A particular miracle worker at the moment is: 'Would you like to do X first or Y?' Defuses all manner of brewing storms!

She also responds well to or just stating facts like 'You seem angry/frustrated so I'm going to take you over here until you feel better/I'm going to take you over here because I can't let you hit X.'

Sometimes just naming an emotion or narrating what's happening stops things in its tracks and you don't even need to solve anything. She was crying about something trivial (classic toddler) and I just said 'You're upset because you wanted a snack but it's bedtime' and she just said 'Y-y-yes' and then stopped crying. Who knows why it works, but it seems to!

But anyway that's a great book, it's really made a difference to how calm I feel and prepared to deal with stuff (I bought it after a horrendous soft play tantrum where we both ended up in tears in the car!). I like some of the Janet Lansbury stuff too.

Also I think it's easy to want to 'performance punish' when you're around other people, to show that you are a responsive parent, even if it does very little to actually solve anything and is more about placating other people than suiting your child's needs (and I totally understand that as I would feel like I had to do the whole 'No, you have to behave or we will go home!' thing if there were parents of a crying child watching me! Even though it wouldn't really work for DD). So you did well to stick to what you usually do and be consistent.

It's a good point a few people have made about using too many words/too much explaination. She is extremely verbal and has been for a long time so we're probably guilty of forgetting it's a 3 year old we're talking to sometimes.

Kids need boundaries. Timeouts and explaining why they're on a timeout teaches them appropriate behaviour. Allowing them to control a household with their tantrums and meltdowns never ends well.

Why do you insist on being positive when her attitude is completely unacceptable?

When mine was at that stage and had the really bad meltdowns she would be told firmly to stay in the lounge until she had calmed. I would check on her every minute or so and ask if she was ready to behave. If the answer was no then leave her to it again.

This would work almost every time.

She isn't being rude - she's 3

Three year olds are not idiots. They know full well when they are being rude. That is assuming the adult is parenting them properly.

I'm not insisting on being positive @welshiefluff - my original post was asking for alternative strategies to consider as I was feeling at that moment like our approach to date might not be working. So I was just explaining how we usually do things and wanted to hear people's suggestions on different things we could take on board to see if we wanted to try anything else.

The problem with positive parenting is that it assumes children are inherently lovely and want to please, when actually a lot of them are kinda psychopathic.

Positive reinforcement is brilliant and should be the main strategy, but without a bit of negative reinforcement too, they have to work so hard to make sense of what is actually expected of them as a member of society and not just as an individual.
Knowinng that you cant discipline a toddler out of a tantrum or a child out of a meltdown and staying calm is definitely best, but you do have to tell them off sometimes so they know when somethings bad behaviour. You dont need to be over the top about it, you can still be respectful and loving while being the boss.

Does she go to nursery? How is she with playing with other children usually.
Does she meltdown when you dont respond immediately to her?

The problem is that the word 'behave' could mean any one of a number of things things that you want them to do at that particular moment. Does it mean stop throwing your dinner? Stop shouting? Stop drawing on the wall? What is 'behaving'? It's a massive spectrum of behaviours, which often isn't helpful in the moment.

I think you need to be specific about what behaviour you do want to see. So instead of 'When you are ready to behave' maybe 'Let me know when you are ready to play with X' or 'I can't let you shout at X so let me know when you are ready to play/have fun.'

And if you want further 'consequences': 'You shouted at X and it made her feel sad. What do you think you could do to make her feel better?'

@Branleuse she's at nursery 4 days a week and has been since she was 12 months. We haven't had any complaints about her behaviour there with other children (and I've heard them speaking to other parents about it so I trust they'd tell me if there was an issue!) though they do say she can be stubborn/knows her own mind.

She does meltdown sometimes when we don't respond immediately, then other times she'll wait nicely for a gap in conversation to ask or be totally fine with me telling her to wait until I've finished doing whatever I'm doing. It's the unpredictability that gets to me as well - why does doing (what I think is) the same thing get totally different responses for no obvious reason?! I know some times she'll be tired/hungry/stressed or whatever but I am certainly looking forward to the time when she can regulate her emotions a bit more easily. Please someone tell me there is a brief reprieve before the teenage hormones kick in haha.

Some thoughts:
The move might have upset her a lot, as you say.
She sounds like she might often have sensory overload.
A mantra I had was "I love you is spelt N-O."
The Incredible Years was a book I wished I had for years 3 to 6. I got it when DD was 7, it was very helpful.
Zagazoo is also very reassuring and you can read it to her too.
Hth. My spirited 3yo is a super teenager now.

I make my 3yo sit on my lap or next to me when they're misbehaving during playdates. If they're overwhelmed, it calms them down. If they're just playing up and being devilish, they soon get bored at being withdrawn from playing.

My 3yo is more than capable of being unkind to their friends. They have discovered that "No, I don't want to play with you" is quite a good power play for making themselves feel important and gaining power over their friends. I don't punish them if they refuse to play and leave their friend out (unless there is screaming or unpleasant behaviour) but I do go and play with the friend myself and usually my DC gets fed up with their friend getting all the attention and comes back to join in.

@ElspethFlashman

She was horribly rude to her friend and she got zero consequences for it??

You see, the sad thing is that there probably will be consequences for the child. Just not ones that she’ll learn from and not ones that the OP is controlling. If I’d been the other parent on the play date, for example, I’d be rolling my eyes - and I sure as hell wouldn’t arrange another play date with the OP’s child. And if kids don’t learn to understand social cues as to when their behaviour is upsetting/unacceptable to others, it doesn’t help them as older kids. “It’s okay to want to play something different” isn’t a very strong message here. “Play nicely with x, or we are going home” is probably better - and you need to follow through. Pretty natural consequence that unpleasant behaviour means you don’t stay with your friend.

@WimpoleHat. Yes, opportunities for playdates will eventually dry up if the playdate is not a positive experience for the other child.

@Goldbar yes that's my concern - nobody wants to think of their child struggling to make friends and certainly not if it's because of the way we've been teaching her to/letting her act.

I've listened to these books on audible and found them helpful:

The book you wish your parents read
How to talk so little kids will listen
The whole brain child
No drama discipline
The yes brain child
The Montessori toddler
No bad kids

And I like Janet Lansburys podcasts on Spotify and her website/blog too. I also like Big Little Feelings on Instagram.

Don't feel pressured to change your parenting approach if that's not what you want to do. Your dd won't end up with no friends, an awful child etc doing what you're doing. When playing with other kids we follow the rule that they can't hurt/insult/upset others but they don't have to play if they dont want to. My child doesn't arrange playdates, I do, so I'm not going to force them to play, it doesn't achieve anything. in this case I think I'd have said something along the lines of "I cant let you shout at X, so I'll move you away until you are ready to play/are calm"

@Welshiefluff

She isn't being rude - she's 3

Three year olds are not idiots. They know full well when they are being rude. That is assuming the adult is parenting them properly.

Oh my goodness what a judgemental, shaming post. Three year olds are also different- some are more impulsive, some more placid, no matter our parenting.

@Ionlydomassiveones

“No, you pick her up and remove her from the situation. Put her down under a tree or on another bench, just away. No negotiation, no trying to reason with her as shes 3 she cannot reason. You tell her you are unhappy with her behaviour so she can sit there until she is ready to apologise and be better behaved. Then you ignore her until she does it. If she gets up, you put her back. No interaction.”

This. Good behaviour gets mummy’s full attention. Bad behaviour gets zero attention. They’re not stupid - they quickly learn which behaviour pays off and that kicking off results in boredom and being ignored. It works.

I often read this on here but it wouldn't have worked with one of mine, as she would have just run off (and fought me very physically if I tried to 'just put her back'). You obviously can't ignore them if that makes them unsafe (being near a road etc).

Its hard OP, I get it and sympathise! In my experience it is a phase that will pass in time x

My eldest would melt down in playdates. She wouldn't be screaming at the other child but she would kick and tantrum and say she didn't want to be there. So all these techniques are lovely but wouldn't work at all because it turns out she's autistic and totally overwhelmed.

My youngest is NT and 4. She's also been a bit of a goblin, and we tend towards more 'gentle' parenting in that I don't want to punish them for expressing their emotions when they're still tiny. At 3 they struggle to structure play themselves- nursery will have a lot of structure and adult intervention, not just 'go and play with x', which is a bit of an odd scenario. So try and structure playdates- a game of football, colouring, building a sandcastle etc. That will help them both feel less at sea. Can you practice what to do if she is not happy before you go? I gave mine a code word to say before things escalated. The idea of putting her in your lap is a good one, have a story book ready.

It's going to be another couple of years before they merrily play together without any adult intervention.

Oh and the two options work well for a controlling child- do you want to do x or y? Or turning things into a game, or defusing the situation with a tickle. If you get entrenched you won't get anywhere. And pick your battles- let her walk in front etc if she wants to. Seriously I wouldn't worry about 'having friends'. 3yos don't really have friends. They have kids they will happily play alongside or near but that comes later, even post reception.

You can't negotiate with a toddler. You need to remove them from a situation and let them calm down themselves in their own time.

In your example above, I would have picked her up or taken her away to a bench to sit on her own in silence until she calmed down. THEN talk to her.

IME, the best thing is to anticipate tantrums. Any deviation from usual routine is bound to upset them, so moving house etc is bound to cause issues. But doing things that are different, seeing people outside of the usual environment etc is overwhelming for kids that age. Give your child plenty of notice that something is happening. Tiredness and hunger are usually the main triggers for tantrums too.

Something I am picking up on is your daughter said she didn't want to play with the kid and you've mentioned about making friends etc. She is three. She does to nursery. That's plenty socialising for that age group. She doesn't need 'friends' at this age.

Read divas and dictators. Some useful strategies in there, the person who wrote the book is a head teacher at a special needs school for children with challenging behaviour, it’s not solely aimed for additional needs children.

I bought for my son although not helpful for us but he has autism and is a whole new kettle of fish so not surprising.

Would be handy for neurotypical kids though.

@plantastic

Oh and the two options work well for a controlling child- do you want to do x or y? Or turning things into a game, or defusing the situation with a tickle. If you get entrenched you won't get anywhere. And pick your battles- let her walk in front etc if she wants to. Seriously I wouldn't worry about 'having friends'. 3yos don't really have friends. They have kids they will happily play alongside or near but that comes later, even post reception.

I'm curious here- not sure how tickling diffuses anything ?

Distraction maybe but not tickling! It's almost a torture in disguise for some kids including my kids.
Makes them involuntary laugh and appear like they enjoy it but they hate hate it. Report back that their father does it a lot. Makes me really cross as child is rendered helpless during the tickle and can't make it stop.

Makes me shudder but I know it'd probably my own experience at play here too.