I’ve totally lost my way with naps and sleep - please help

[orangebuttons]

My DS was a really good sleeper and self-settler until about the age of 10 months, but since then he’s been very difficult. At first I thought it was a phase but he’s now 14 months so it’s been going on for a while. I’ve no idea what to do or where I’m going wrong.

Some days he will go down fine, but other days (probably about 80% of them) he will cry and cry when put down for a nap or for bed at night. Sometimes the crying will go on for an hour or two with me going in and out to cuddle and comfort him, until he eventually goes to sleep.

We do have a routine but it’s not set in stone, as I never wake him when he’s asleep, I always let him wake up naturally - which obviously varies his nap and bed times. Our rough routine is something like this:

Wake: about 8.30am
Nap: 11am-12.30pm
Bed: 6pm if he doesn’t have a 30 minute afternoon nap in his pram; 7-7.30pm if he does. He generally then takes an hour or two to get to sleep at night.

Why is he so difficult to get to sleep these days and where am I going wrong? It’s really starting to affect me mentally and grind me down, as I dread the battle I know I’ll face every nap and bed time.

If anyone can give any advice I would be so grateful, as I’m really struggling.

This morning he woke at 8.30 and I took him up for a nap just after 11. It’s now nearly 11.50 and he’s still whinging and crying. I went in to comfort him and sat with him for ages, but as soon as I leave the room he starts again

Is he just not tired?

You mention waking 8.30am, that’s pretty late. Then bed by 6pm. So he’s only awake 9.5hrs max per day even is no nap. With a nap probably only 8hrs. It sounds like he is sleeping most the night.

In comparison I also have 14 month old. He was awake at 5.30 today (early I know!), semi rested in our bed until 6.30am but then was wide awake. He’s just going down for nap in a minute at 1pm, will nap 1-2hrs, and bedtime at 8pm.

So roughly has 6-7hrs gap in between waking and nap, then nap and bed. He naps once per day between 12-3pm usually for 1-2 hrs depending on how early he woke etc..

Possibly, but I’d say he gets about 12.5 hours of sleep at night plus 1.5-2 hours of naps, which I thought was the right amount at this age? I also thought their wake windows at this age were meant to be about 5 hours maximum - is that not right?

Also when I took him up for a nap earlier he did seem tired - he was quite cranky and rubbing his eyes.

It’s now 12 and he’s just fallen asleep!

Do you think moving his morning nap later and dropping the afternoon nap completely could help?

Yesterday he totally refused to nap at all so was up for 12 hours!!

What would be a typical/average daily routine of when he actually sleeps? For example you mention bedtime of 6pm or 7-7.30pm. When does he actually go to sleep usually?

Likewise his lunchtime nap. You mention 11-12.30, but that takes ages to settle. So is he having 1.5h actual sleep or much less?

I'm sure you have thought of this and it may be advised again in some manuals on baby routine, but will your DC sleep in the car or buggy. That is what I. I didn't get to nap at the same time ,but at least I got an hour or two of peace and headspace. Sometimes buggy with sleeping DC could be left in the hall with sleeping baby so some jobs could be done then too.
Just suggesting as sometimes just changing the habit is needed.

Plus at this age I did only 1 nap a day at lunch or in early afternoon.

Re bedtime, you won't want to hear this, but we introduced a bath/books/bed routine that needed a bit of controlled crying at the start, but soon became an entrenched routine for many years. Sometimes the reading books stage was very long...

Maybe try him on one nap but adjust morning wake time, if he’s waking at 8.30 and then your putting him down at 11.30 that’s only a 3 hour wake window so sounds like he’s just not tired.

At that age my eldest was awake 7am, nap 1-3.30ish and bed at 7pm.

DS2 12 months still on 2 naps a day, his routine is awake 7am, first nap 10-11, second nap 2-4 ish, bed at 7pm but I do wake him at 4pm as if he sleeps later he’s difficult to settle at bedtime

I would try cuddling him more, until he's asleep? Maybe separation anxiety has kicked in more at this age. Don't get too hung up on "self settling", it's a myth that's being peddled by self-styled sleep consultants....

raisedgood.com/self-soothing-biggest-con-new-parenthood/?fbclid=IwAR2-ZUTDePPn59iobm-d6Ztm4joaChPKfW6L5pkxa1MWuXitSzPqCVqQWe8

Just cuddle him more if he needs it for now, or do contact naps- he'll grow out of it again when he's ready x

(1-2 hours for bedtime was totally normal for us too at that age- it won't always be like this I promise!)

He will only do 30 mins in the car and buggy - never more. So that’s not a great option for us sadly!

What would be a typical/average daily routine of when he actually sleeps?

It’s so all over the place at the moment that I’ve sort of lost track! I’m going to record it for a couple of days and see.

So far today, he woke at 8.30am and went to sleep at midday.

Thanks @Mrsdoubtfireswig. Perhaps I’m still stuck on a 12 month old routine when I need to be moving to one nap a day?

Just cuddle him more if he needs it for now

I’ve been sitting next to his cot stroking his head and saying shhhh over and over, which seems to work but takes ages. It feels like a retrograde step though as he didn’t need that when he was younger!

Ah I know what you mean about retrograde steps, @orangebuttons ... But that's just what it's like! It's not a linear development- there's always different phases and new issues. You have to go with the flow!

Parent of a once terrible, now pretty good sleeping 13 nearly 14 month old. Alongside slowly moving from boob to self settling, one of the best things we did for his sleep was instigate a strict morning wake time and bedtime, 13h apart, ie 11h asleep at night (thanks to @FATEdestiny if I remember correctly!) He’s up every morning at 06:30 and in the cot every night by 19:30. Ours naps vary slightly depending on the day, but usually an hour at 09:30 and 1.25-1.5h at 13:45. If naps go wrong one day, he can catch up the next. But start and end of the day never changes.

As others have said, your day isn’t long enough - he’s not having enough wake time, which is probably why he’s taking hours to settle. If he’s starting the day at 08:30 and only able to make it to 11:30 for first nap, your bedtime probably needs to be more like 21:00 with a second nap in the late afternoon.

Do you think this would be a reasonable routine for a 14 month old (pinched from an old thread, hope that’s allowed!)

8am wake up
12pm nap for 1.5 hrs
7pm bedtime

He’s just woken up again after 45 minutes, so today’s routine is now:

8.30am: wake
12-12.45pm: nap

Based on that, what time would you aim to have him in his cot for bed tonight if he doesn’t nap again this afternoon - 6.30pm?

Ours has only recently moved to one nap. He still struggles like today when awake so early he was tired by 11.30am but managed to stretch him with lunch and short walk. If he naps morning now say 10-11am, he’s not tired again until 5pm which is too late.

He was ill last week with cold so did take 2 naps so it’s flexible.

We def need 5+ hrs gap here. He often does 6-7hr gap if he didn’t nap long at lunch or woke earlier than usual (like today)

But if yours woke at 8.30am today, then by 11am he was only awake 2.5hrs which isn’t very long at all at this age, then he naps again mid afternoon, then bed at 6pm? Does he sleep 6pm-8.30am? Ie 14.5hr overnight, plus then x2 day naps?

Could you look at 1 nap most days instead? Wake 8-8.30am, lunch, nap 1pm for however long he sleeps, then bedtime 6-8pm whenever suits you/him?

The "right" amount of sleep is so variable that the guides don't work for every child. DD was down to one nap before 1 and dropped naps by 1.5, she doesn't need that much sleep, she went from being a easy napper to taking hours and hours. She's 2.5 now and seems to need about 11.5 hours but is waking so stupidly early she's needing to nap if she went to bed late.

Huckleberry app works really well for DD and I find it super helpful to have a chart to compare days and trends. It's unfortunately paid now though to get the nap/bedtime predictions

At this age my 3 kids tended to need one nap rather than 2. I think bedtime is to early and nap time to early.

Average day for us at that age was

Wake up 7 am
Nap around 1pm to 2.30 pm
Bath around 7pm then bed at 7.30 after story etc.

In the mornings I always do activities even just garden play for a couple of hours. Ideally toddler type outdoor groups are better though.

Babies need more sleep than toddlers.

I think it depends on wha5 your day time activities are. If he is having a more chilled day he may not be tired. Your maybe best to try tire him out in the morning then give him lunch and let him sleep after lunch.

Mine dropped naps in the cot completely at 18 months. Although he would always fall asleep in the car if we were going somewhere.

At 14 months he was having a lunchtime nap at maybe 1pm for an hour or two. Then bed at 7- 7.30

Some need way less sleep than others.

I think it’s quite a late wake up. I would wake earlier and see if you can get a better quality lunchtime nap. At this age DD did 12 hours at night (odd wake up) and 2-3 hours at lunchtime (she’s a big sleeper). I think the afternoon sleep is probably messing with it all.

I think you need to adjust the morning wake up and naptime. My 29 month old has had the same sleep schedule for a good 6 months now, she does:
7am wake
12-2 nap
745/8pm bedtime.
Total 13 hours sleep a day.

If she has a couple of days of late wake ups, it sets everything to pot, it's just not worth it. So if you're after keeping the 8am wake up, I would say you need to aim for a 1pm sleep and 8.30/9pm bed, and that feels quite late

@KnobJockey that sounds ideal! Does a 14 month old and a 29 month old have the same routine then in terms of sleep? I’d assumed things would change again by the time he was 2+!

@orangebuttons - the NHS says and average 1-2 year old needs 11-14hrs per day. So I guess some need more or less than that, but on average. So 8pm-7am would be 11hrs, plus a 2 hrs ish nap. Some will sleep earlier/ wake earlier/ nap less.

Ds is still asleep for his nap today, it’s nearly 2.30pm now, so he will prob have 2hrs today. As he’s napped well and a little later, I won’t attempt bed before 8pm unless he seems particularly tired. If I try at 7pm he will just faff for an hour before going to sleep, so ends up going to sleep the same time anyway in the end, but I end up less stressed

You can always aim for something, try for a few days and see how it goes. If it doesn’t work for you, adjust. And babies change every 5 mins anyway, so I wouldn’t worry about fixing it forever