Help - what are reasonable domestic standards?

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Hello - thanks for taking the time to read.

I'm concerned about some of my partner's behaviours/skills/abilities around general domestic stuff & (a) can't work out if i'm being unreasonable now, (b) wondering where it might to later on.

Firsly i want to come clean that i am a father & my concerns are around our son's mother. However, i want to be very clear that my concerns around making an appropriate home environement for a child apply to both parents - it just happens to be this way around in my story. So i'm going to talk about my partner as she/her, but in no way am i suggesting that her, or any mother's responsibilities, should be different to any man's.

I would describe my partner as completely undomesticated. We got pregnant accidentally, having never lived together, & decided to give things a go. I was completely shocked when we moved in together - it was like living in a student house. Clothes everywhere, plates left out, utility bills straight in the bin, no idea how to operate a vacuum cleaner, beds never made, spills not addressed, etc, etc etc. She was 32 at that point. It caused a lot of issues for us.

Our boy is now 2.5. Generally things are better - they had to be - but i think still a long way short of what i think is right for a child's home environment - still lots of mess, plates, general disarray. Not only that, but her characteristics are now also visible in her parenting. His hands & face are never wiped clean, his hair is never cleaned, she'll throw any old clothes on him (all aesthitic i know). She cannot cook - litterally nothing - toast, microwave stuff, pack mac'n'cheese. She therefore does no shopping. I find bits of paper (medical, daycare, etc) left randomly around. Medicine left out. Used nappies on the floor.

Now i know that each of these are individually trivial when compared other parenting traits. Its certainly only fair that i say how good she is with him emotionally, much better than i could hope to be. Clearly she & i are very different - you can probably read between the lines to see that i am quite orgnaised, tidy, take care of myself, eat well, etc - but i cant work out if this situation is her not meeting my standards, or whether its just not good enough for a parent.

I also wonder how this will develop as he grows. How will this carelessness manifest? Will his homework be done? Will he be bullied at school for looking a mess? Will he miss out on things because of a lost letter? Are there other associated impacts that i havent even thought to worry about yet?

Obviously i have reponsibilities in each of these areas. The only way we have got to now is by me doing all of the cleaning, all of the shopping, all of the cooking, all of the paperwork, washing his hair, cleaning his face, putting the medicine away. But i cant be home all of the time - in fact i have to travel with work or work late quite frequently. Further, it is not impossible that our relationship will end & i would be around even less...

Are my concerns unreasonable? Am i just judging by my own standards? Should i just be thankful that she is so caring & emotinally attentive? Am i right to worry about where this could end? Does he deserve a better home...?

Sounds like you and your OH are quite mismatched, OP. Child's home should be sanitary, child should be fed and clean (and loved and stimulated - but we are talking about cleanliness here). Medicines left out where your son can reach them is dangerous. Loose paperwork can lead to missed appointments/missing important information.
I think it's unrealistic to have a show perfect home with a small child, embrace the mess, but it has to be hygienic.

Have you talked to your OH about it?

Well I'm very glad you're not my DH. How bloody condescending

And re cooking, well, speaking as someone who doesn't have natural predisposition or desire for cooking, I got weaning books with recipes (I have a 6 months old) and I cook, and it's edible.
I think you need to sit down with your OH and set out common housekeeping/baby feeding goals, come up with a list of things that needs to be done to achieve that, and divvy up the tasks.

Gosh, we women are really awful, aren't we? I'm amazed any man ever puts up with us.

I have a friend who lives like this- loads of emotional support and love but no cleanliness or organisation.
I do worry about bullying when the child is at school but beyond that I can't judge.

I would mostly be concerned from a safety point of view with meds etc out.

When you address your concerns what does she say??

I second PP. I presume you have talked to her and she says she will do/will change/knows and nothing changes.

Many women complain their partners are similar (but this sounds like a teenager to me honestly, or worse...). Dirty nappies on the floor? Medicine out? Bills to bin? That is not acceptable anywhere at any age, not when you are 4, 14 or 24.

You have a few options. 1) you can do all yourself. 2) you can hire a cleaner (but more like a nanny to your partner really...). 3) you can leave and hope for the best for your son to survive. I like 1&2 most, get help with cleaning first. Try to make a rule on what goes where and who does what (dishes, laundry, hovering etc). Like teaching your son, you will have to try and teach her. If you keep your lifestyle and teach your son to do the same (he will do as he sees however, they all do) then you may stand a chance.

Good luck.

@Harrysmummy246

Well I'm very glad you're not my DH. How bloody condescending

I disagree. It sounds like the OP is worried about his partner. It sounds like there are some mental health issues here. I wouldn't expect a healthy, mentally well adult with a toddler to live like this.

Why are you all being arsey?

This is completely unacceptable way to live and I wouldn’t be raising my child like that

You can’t expect a hugely tidy home really

But yes clean
Hoovered floors and used surfaces
Made beds
decent fresh food
clean clothes and bedding and personal hygiene

It’s a form of neglect.

I think if the relationship doesn’t work out you can’t really leave your son in that situation. It sounds like she would neglect him (physically, not emotionally).

I think this is neglect. Before you two were together or before your child was born even it was up to her.
But the things you have described are in my view neglect. They will be noticed when he starts nursery and you can expect official intervention.
You really need to spell it out clean and well fed are the minimum.

I don't think you are unreasonable in the slightest and your worries are all normal. Had a woman posted this about a man I bet you would get no arsey comments whatsoever. Basic hygiene and cleanliness are not only important for children's health but also their happiness. I don't have any advice as it seems like this has been going on for so long so I don't know that just a proper conversation could fix it but does she have good mental health? Is she struggling to do everyday tasks because of her own mind or is this just the way she was raised? Maybe she needs more psychological than physical help from you?

You sound like between you you are doing a good job of raising your baby but I completely understand you need more help and can't do the physical and logistical things alone.

Your partners behaviour does sound like it borders on neglectful and if the relationship where to breakdown, I wouldn't leave him with his mum as I think he would be I'm some danger. Is he in nursery? I'm surprised his appearance (if it is how you describe) has not peaked some concerns, it's the first thing that educational safeguarding tells you to look out for.

Talk to your OH and see if movement can be made. I feel for you, I couldn't live like that.

I agree with PP, if the relationship breaks down, you cannot leave your child in that situation.

What does she say about it when you discuss it with her?

It does sound like some form of Executive Function disorder I.e. something that she is for some reason almost unable to do. Or depression. Or maybe she is just lazy and doesn’t want to.

I would worry about the short term safety and hygiene aspects, particularly when you are away from home, but wouldn’t worry about longer term adverse influence, because you are there to model the right behaviour. Although I found your comment odd “Further, it is not impossible that our relationship will end & i would be around even less.”.

I would concentrate on establishing if she needs some help e.g. depression, and if not then tell her she needs to get her act together and contribute more.

I don't think your expectations are unreasonable, a hygienic and safe home is a minimum requirement and dirty nappies lying around or medications left out in the child's reach aren't acceptable. At the very least she should be picking up/tidying anything hazardous.

I don't understand how any adult 'can't' cook, not everyone will be making elaborate home cooked meals 3 times a day but it's not that hard to throw together something nutritious once a day (a simple protein, some steamed or boiled veg, rice/pasta type of thing isn't much effort).

In answer to your questions

Will his homework be done? Probably not
Will he be bullied at school for looking a mess? There's a good chance of that
Will he miss out on things because of a lost letter? Definitely, there is a lot to keep up with once they start school and you need to be organised
Are there other associated impacts that i havent even thought to worry about yet? Plenty, illness, injury, SS involvement if it's really that bad and his basic needs are not being met, breakdown of your relationship, your sons own life skills lacking because he thinks it's acceptable to live like this and no doubt many more.

General mess is one thing but used nappies left on the floor is gross, and medicines left within reach is dangerous.

Some of your complaints though, around for example putting him in “any old clothes”, are a bit unreasonable. I put my toddler in whatever, half her clothes are stained with paint from nursery and I don’t care. Since you’ve said that’s an aesthetic complaint, I’m assuming he’s not in clothes that are uncomfortably too small, or really dirty.

I’d be concerned about this. Some of it sounds potentially dangerous (the medicines being left out) and neglectful.

I agree with pp that it sound like some sort of Executive Function disorder might be possible. I know some people are disorganised but this sounds extreme.

With the cooking - can she seriously not manage to do something as simple as follow the instructions on a microwave ready meal?

Also when son is older he may be embarrassed and not want to invite friends over.

I used to really gag when I stayed at my best friends house as it was sooooo unclean I would beg my mum not to make me go: not her fault but still. They used to feed their dog on their bed. 🤮

I seriously question much you have exaggerated these stories about your partner. At 2.5 years old, if your child was not properly fed, bathed and / or cared for, then concerned family members or nursery members would have stepped in at this point.

You say you are not around much and / or travel a lot. If that's the case, then who feeds him every night? Who gives his baths? Who took him to his vaccinations? Has he ever missed an important date for a medical appointment or birthday party or school visit? If it's mum who has done most of these things, it sounds to me like it is more you that has some kind of obsessive / control issue that you need to think seriously about.

Yeah maybe there's nappies on the ground and he's not eating 5 star meals, but he sounds well loved by your partner and for that you should be incredibly grateful.

And PS - all our bills go in the bin as we have them paid automatically online. If so, this is absolutely no reflection of her abilities as a parent.

Can you hire a cleaner to come in twice a week? One that will stick a load of washing on, change beds and wash up. It won't help with medication being left about - which could be very concerning - ie is it a calpol bottle which a child couldn't open left on the coffee table or is it packets of paracetamol?

I think if you want to stay in this relationship and ensure your ds doesn't grow up like this you will have to take the lead in getting this sorted even if it feels unfair that you have to.

As it appears you are doing a more than fair share of the child care, housework, cooking etc., j2d then I can quite understand your frustration and worry. Sadly, it seems that you and your partner are not really suited and have very different expectations re child care and domestic issues generally.

Personally, I would find it very difficult to live with someone who leaves mess - especially things like dirty nappies - around all the time and who does not care about the cleanliness of the house or his/her child.

I know of a case where a child was bullied for going to school with smelly clothes and hair. Of course, bullying is wrong and should be addressed but unfortunately children pick up on these sorts of things.

I don't know whether you have talked to your partner about this but I think you need to. Perhaps it would help if you agree to some sort of delineation of chores. If you are willing to cook (basic) meals and be responsible for bathing and providing clean clothes for your son, then it would seem fair that your partner be more careful about general tidying up/cleaning. If your are in position to pay for a few hours of cleaning, perhaps that would also help.

I feel bad for your partner. The emotional love SHE provides is a form of hard and taxing labour.

It sounds like your are unfairly painting her as a neglectful mum. Like, does your kid smell and have dog pee on his bed like some stories here or are you just pissed that the house doesn't look pristine when you come home? It sounds like the former and you just have a bee in your bonnet. Chill out.

@GeoffMac2020

I seriously question much you have exaggerated these stories about your partner. At 2.5 years old, if your child was not properly fed, bathed and / or cared for, then concerned family members or nursery members would have stepped in at this point.

You say you are not around much and / or travel a lot. If that's the case, then who feeds him every night? Who gives his baths? Who took him to his vaccinations? Has he ever missed an important date for a medical appointment or birthday party or school visit? If it's mum who has done most of these things, it sounds to me like it is more you that has some kind of obsessive / control issue that you need to think seriously about.

Yeah maybe there's nappies on the ground and he's not eating 5 star meals, but he sounds well loved by your partner and for that you should be incredibly grateful.

And PS - all our bills go in the bin as we have them paid automatically online. If so, this is absolutely no reflection of her abilities as a parent.

Yes! I think this Users original message reads very very suspicious and exaggerated as well. It doesn't add up. He's not home but the kid is 2.5 and not a peep from anyone in the community or family members etc etc? The mum seems to be doing ALL the emotional work, plus childcare just not at the standard he accepts! God forbid she's a working mum too. But don't even get me started if she is...

@Tlollj

I think this is neglect. Before you two were together or before your child was born even it was up to her. But the things you have described are in my view neglect. They will be noticed when he starts nursery and you can expect official intervention. You really need to spell it out clean and well fed are the minimum.

Please do not suggest this as neglect. That's a a serious term that should not be used lightly. The kid is 2.5 and if he was improperly fed or bathed, then family (and presumably he is in nursery at that age) would have altered the right people. Its irresponsible to suggest this.