Husband shouting, furious with DD

[Lfinger]

Dd3 yrs refuses to let dh, her dad, put her to bed. As soon as she realises that he'll be doing her story she starts kicking off, running around the house to find me (while I'm trying to put her baby sister to bed). Then if dh manages to get her in her bedroom, she kicks and scratches him as though her life depends on it. I've told him to just walk out of the room and check on her every few mins until she calms down but he ends up shouting (properly shouting, screaming in her face, very scary) at which point I have to go in because I was shouted at like that when I was little and know how traumatic it can be. It happened on Thursday and its happened again tonight. I had to go into her room and he was shouting in her face and trying to get her Pyjamas on. It was horrid and I feel very upset about it. dd kept telling me that daddy scared her, that was very scary. I'm so gutted that she's so young and had that experience.

I insisted he leave the room and finish putting the baby to bed but he walked off. Left me with 3 year old and 18 month old to do bedtime when they both are used to having one of us lie with them to fall asleep. Been a grim evening.

Partly just needed to get it all out of my head but also want to hear what others have to say about it. Am I too sensitive because of childhood experience or is this unreasonable behaviour from an adult man to a small, very tired child.

I agree that you need to completely reset bedtimes. It shouldn't be about you casually deciding you want time with the younger child after creating a bedtime routine that means your 3-yr-old is dependent on you.
If your DH has an anger problem that has to be addressed but you also need a new bedtime routine that doesn't change on a whim depending on which parent is with which child, and whether or not your 3-yr-old is kicking and screaming.

Everyone needs more stability. That doesn't come from letting everyone reach fever pitch and then you swoop in to try to 'rescue' the situation.

@Zoinksalot

Nah your daughters behaviour is unacceptable and I'm not surprised your husband lost his temper, no one likes being physically attacked (whether a child or not it fucking hurts and shouldn't be tolerated)

What the hell is wrong with you?

She's a three year old FFS.

He scream in the face of a a 3 year old. If you love your children, leave.

Omg all these people saying an 18mo and a 3 year old should be able to "self settle" to sleep. And time out? And Jo Frost? Do yourself a favor and don't listen to these people.

It's perfectly age appropriate for children of both those ages to need a parent to help them sleep and this is not the issue at hand here at all.

Plus the ones expecting that a child can control her impulses to scratch/ hit etc are also wrong. Understand the cause of that behaviour, treat the cause and not the symptom.

Shouting clearly doesn't help the matter but your 3 year old needs to know she doesn't rule the roost at bed times and she can't always have her own way which it seems you have facilitated.....

You say you are "strict" but what punishment does she get for screaming, kicking and hitting her father???

I see that you believe that you defend your children but where is the evidence for that?

Your husband is comfortable shouting into your child’s face so that she is terrified. You haven’t defended her at all. It’s happened before and will happen again.

Husband needs to get a grip. I'm sick of men who can't control their raging tempers. If it's a one off and he recognises it's not cool to do that then that's not so bad. It is probably the reason she's screaming and doesn't want him putting her to bed. Many of us were raised this way so don't realise the impact. Hopefully there's a way you can encourage him to change his ways, sounds like you will have to be the one to.

Op ,you say your dd is very bright for 3 ,and her df baby talks to her .
Have tried talking to her ,alone ,when he is not in the house to find out why she is so scared of him.
I had 3 under 3 ,I had to do bedtimes alone.
I had all 3 sleep in one room ,made bedtimes so much easier,as I read to them all at the same time .
I also had a father I was terrified of ...as soon as I could I left home ,I’ve not seen him since I was 17.
You do know ,this is abuse ,don’t you op .
He is the adult ,he has to behave like an adult all the time ,even when his children behave badly ...her bad behaviour is no excuse for his abusive behaviour
I would be expecting her to be telling who ever her childcare provider is.
Daddy scares me ,will be all she will have to say .......

@pipsqueakbollock

Of everything in your post, beside all the horrid yelling, misbehaving and shouting (by everyone it seems), the most stand out point to me is "lie with them until they go to sleep"

Has your eldest DD had you lie with her until she goes to sleep since she was born? And she's 3????

No wonder she's screaming the fuck the house down at your DH.

Sorry OP. You made this situation.

Your DH is possibly flummoxed by the bad bedtime behaviour and your house has reached critical point of who is in charge here.
No, he shouldn't shout or intimidate but seems your DD is misbehaving and somewhat out of control of her emotions at bedtime. As is her father. I would expect because BOTH of them are tired and emotional and don't really like the status quo of the routine.

Reset Bedtime. Entirely. Nanny Jo Frost scenario.

Lie with them until they go to sleep?
The best thing you can teach your child is to self sooth and settle at bed. Absolutely research an entirely new bedtime routine. With DH and do it together. No undermining each other. Team work all the way and never disagree openly in front of the DC. You do that quietly and in a grown up manner when DC aren't in ear shot.

YOU made the situation? Fucking hell. How did she make her husband yell in a three year olds face? WTF is wrong with you?

Rethink bedtimes, no excuse for him to shout that's disgraceful, but it's also ridiculous to keep doing the same thing if she 'kicks and scratches him as though her life depends on it'.

Must they go to bed at the same time ?

[quote Dddccc]@00100001 the child was kicking off before the parent shouted this was not acceptable behaviour and should have been dealt with via a time out not parent shouting her behaviour is probably because she knows if she kicks off for her dad her mam will drop everything and take over[/quote]
Ok.

So you're in a room with a person you don't like. You try everything to get rid of him. Because he had previously shouted in your face, so your scared that he's going to do the same thing. Nothing you do is making him go, so you lash out in frustration and anger
And then he proceeds to scream and shout at you to get you to comply.

You're hysterical at this point, trying to escape. But no-one is helping you.

You know there's someone right there who can help.

But they don't.

Why are you dismissing the child's feelings?

Why aren't you understanding there's a reason for this behaviour?

The OP has already mentioned that he is wanting all the loves a d cuddles and nice times, but doesn't want to put the hard work in to earn that.

Why are you punishing the chil, when as an adult you should be working out how to prevent the behaviour in the first place.

Time outs should only be used in older children as a way to call the fuck down so you can then deal with the problem. (If they should be used at all)

Yes, unfortunately,the child has worked out that Mum will come and see her if she acts this way
But it's. It as if the 3yo suddenly acts like this out of the blue, it builds up to this and the father isn't handling it.

You're putting all the responsibility on a THREE YEAR OLD to manage their feelings when Dad should be helping her.

It's the Dad that needed to go on timeout, when he felt himself losing control. He needed to go out of the room for a moment. Calm down. And then return to help the 3yo.

Not the other way around...

@HerMammy

Your DHs behaviour is unacceptable but your DD3 kicking him in the face, screaming, scratching is also extreme. There really is no need for lying with both kids until they fall asleep, it’s better all round if they learn to be content and settle at bedtime.

Nobody asked about whether the kids want company when going to sleep

They're asking for help about a grown man shouting I'm the face of a 3 yo

The first thing to do is get your dh to talk about his behaviour. He does need to acknowledge that as an adult he behaved aggressively to a 3 year old. No matter what the provocation, and let's face it, a 3 year old having a major tantrum is very demanding, he must in future control his temper. Or walk away. He should apologise to her.

Now he needs to build a better relationship with her. She wants you to put her to bed because you spend positive time with her. She trusts you and feels safe with you. You are her comfort.

He needs to find an activity they can do together that he can enjoy. Build Lego, play football, a board game. It doesn't have to be what you like to do. Once she begins to feel secure with him and enjoy playing, you can restart the bedtime routine.

Your daughter is scared of your husband, because he abuses her. So really your options are to either leave him, or send your children to live with someone who can keep them safe. And make sure he has the snip so he doesn't put anyone else in this awful situation.

I'd never ever stay with a man who repeatedly screamed in a 3 year olds face. No excuses at all. I'd be gone

I would remove him from the situation for a while (or permanently, if he can’t learn to control his anger around the children). Is there a reason bedtimes have to be done separately? Cuddles, stories, pyjamas and teeth could be done in the same room at the same time, then they just need to go in their separate beds for the very last part. It’s a good opportunity to work on removing the lying with them to go to sleep crutch.

@00100001
and nobody asked you to police my comment, everyone’s behaviour is questionable in the situation.

Your DH needs to acknowledge his trauma and find ways to control his temper. When he’s calm talk this through and demand he gets anger management.

I am a shouter too but DS still wants me and often pushes my much calmer DH away, so his shouting must be awful for her to be running away from him. You can’t let that continue

[quote HerMammy]@00100001
and nobody asked you to police my comment, everyone’s behaviour is questionable in the situation.[/quote]
Why are people insisting on putting responsibility on the 3 year old? The 3yo will have given warning and danger signs... much like a dog will.

For example:
If you go up to a dog and try and give it medicine, the way you always have, by holding his jaws and putting the tablet in his mouth - and it's not happy this time. It tries to get away from you, you ignore this and you carry on with the exact same behaviour. Then it growls lowly at you as a warning... you carry on restraining and forcing, it barks and snarls at you... you carry on... it eventually gets backed into a corner and bites you. You then get aggressive at the dog, shouting at it and then blaming the dog for biting you in the first place. Saying "the dog should never have bitten me!!! what awful behaviour, let's put him alone somewhere and blame him"

I'd HOPE, that at the first warning, maybe the second. You would stop, take a step back, and re-assess. Wonder why the dog is acting like this, take a breath, give the dog some space to calm down, and then try again a different way. You might even realise the dog is scared of you, because this is the 3rd time this has happened, and maybe, for the while someone else should give the dog his medication. And when the dog is happily taking his tablets from them and the trauma is removed.. you can work on giving the dog the medication yourself.

So why is it acceptable to treat a 3yo worse than a dog? Why wouldn't you notice the 'danger' signs. Realise that as an adult you can regain control and calm. Take a step back, try again and get the job done without meltdowns, anger, screaming etc.

The 3yo is not to blame. Yes, her behaviour is not great but she is reacting to the situation. She should not be expected to "manage" her father, a grown-up man. HE needs to create a calm peaceful environment for HER where she feels secure if he wants her to go to sleep.

Shouty, scary daddy doesn't work for bedtime. As I've had to explain to my DH, fun daddy doesn't work either. Instead, she needs boring, gentle daddy.

@00100001. I agree.

I'd do bedtime together for a while.
First with Mum doing it all and Dad in the room.
Then Dad taking over bits with Mum in & out of the room.
Then Dad doing more.

In order to facilitate this I'd move the bedtimes so they can be done separately.

I'm so sad to see that the "rod for your own back" brigade seem to be out in force. The little girl is only three, why shouldn't she have loving cuddles with a parent until she falls asleep. It's such a special time of day to share, especially if parents are out at work all day.

OP, I would work on reframing bedtime. Everyone gets ready together and then into the youngest's room for first story and snuggles. I would have DH sit with the youngest to start and you with the eldest, when youngest is asleep I would relocate to the eldest's room and have a second story and all sit together until she's asleep. Then gradually I would up DH's involvement - so he could sit with eldest during first story but you take over for her story and bedtime and then eventually he would be doing the majority of the eldest's bedtime. Once you are happy it's going well you could start ducking out after the first bedtime to get a bit more time for yourself and hopefully you will have a better routine in place for if one parent has to do a solo bedtime.

It's not acceptable for your DH to shout at your DD, so I would not let him do bedtime alone until you can be confident that it won't happen again. If you can't be confident that this is an isolated incident I would consider leaving for the sake of your DD. You are her only advocate and for her to feel like she has to lash out physically must mean she is really scared.

It's not unreasonable that you want to have time with your youngest but if you want to carry on sitting with them until they fall asleep you need to put some work in now to create a more sustainable routine. If you no longer want to sit with them that's fine too and there have been some good suggestions (periodically going back in/pottering around upstairs) but don't feel like this is your fault your DD is scared, that's all on your DH I'm afraid.