What would gentle sleep training typically involve?

[Aliceandthemarchhare]

I am concerned about my four month old and would appreciate some advice.

He typically sleeps from about 9 pm to 5 am and wakes up once to be fed (usually) so that’s fine.

During the day though his naps are so short that when I total it up he usually only sleeps about two hours, sometimes less. I try not to worry about it but he does get so overtired by evening it’s not much fun.

Is there a gentle way to get him to sleep a bit longer?

Reflux is awful but the GP has pretty much said there are only two options and neither have worked. Bloody depressing.

What about CMPA?

I'm trying to think back with our little one. He deffo had reflux and I think it was bad until 6m and then his tummy valve became stronger. We noticed every time he had a growth spurt he would get reflux again and I assume it was because the Tummy valve needed to grow again to catch up!
But alongside reflux he also had lots of trapped wind which wasn't very obvious but I do remember him not burping very much.
We used infacol which worked a treat but I know that can make reflux worse. We had to hold our boy upright for months to sleep. He couldn't sleep laying down at all. It was hell.

Cows milk allergy? Don’t think so. I think he is just unhappy and unsettled. Won’t be put down,m. Failure to bond.

Oh OP, it sounds like you’re really struggling. I remember it, it’s dreadful. Time will help though (small consolation at the moment I know)

I just wanted to say that you’re obviously a lovely mum and you’re doing everything you can. The people who have babies who sleep better aren’t better mums, they just have different babies. I really strongly believe so much about sleep is to do with the baby, not the mum. It’s not your fault he won’t sleep. The best you can do is try to tweak things to make it easier for him. I know it’s so hard.

It’s ok not to enjoy this stage (I certainly didn’t!) but in a few months time it’ll be better. I especially found once DD could sit up things improved hugely (helped with the reflux as well)

This video might reassure you about the total amount of sleep he’s getting

DD never had more than 1.5 hours sleep during the day at that age and she’s absolutely fine, you’re not damaging him.

Do you have anyone who can offer you a bit of a break? Or can you try to get out of the house/ meet up with people? I found having stuff to break up the day made it drag much less.

Aw no it won't be failure to bond. Id put all my money down on the reflux and unfortunately as I said in my experience it only got better when his tummy valve was stronger. Can you go back to GP? When you did him try and burp and burp and then even if he burps, wait a few mins and try again.
I also put the cot up at a small angle using a folded sheet under his mattress just to keep his head raised up more.

@Aliceandthemarchhare

Cows milk allergy? Don’t think so. I think he is just unhappy and unsettled. Won’t be put down,m. Failure to bond.

That doesn’t sound like failure to bond to me, it sounds like he’s bonded to you really strongly hence wanting to be with you all the time

I think I said it earlier but now you’ve mentioned the reflux I’m going to say it again, try him in the chair bit of the pushchair and ditch the carry cot. If he’s got reflux he’ll be much happier upright

I’ve been absolutely awful to him today through sheer frustration. I screamed when he threw up for a third time. Horrible.

This is why I think you need some support. You need a break, hell who wouldn't? Do not be afraid to ask for help
Do you have anyone to help you?

Yes I do thanks samantha but it doesn’t make a difference. With his reflux he’s sometimes sick hours later. I’m at the end of my rope with it. It isn’t his fault but no one will help so I suppose we are stuck with it.

I don’t have anyone

I would speak to your health visitor. They should be able to help you work out a plan you can try and at least it's somebody to go back to if the plan doesn't work and say OK, this isn't working, what next?

And I'd start off with "My baby is very unhappy, inconsolable, crabby, crying, clearly uncomfortable all day. I think he's overtired, but I can't get him to sleep more during the day. I have tried X, Y, Z."

I think the reason you're getting unhelpful responses is that the very first post in this thread doesn't express that the problem is that the baby is overtired and clearly unhappy with it. It just sounds like you think he "should" be sleeping more when it can be absolutely fine for some babies to sleep in this pattern.

Starting off with "My baby is unhappy all the time" also gives you more avenues to explore than just sleep. Although I would agree that the total sleep in 24 hours probably doesn't sound enough and is likely the solution, it might not be that. For example some people have suggested CMPA - maybe not that specifically, but this kind of thing might be causing both the grumpiness and the inability to fall/stay asleep?

Basically, you have an unhappy baby problem, not necessarily a sleep problem, although sleep might be one solution.

Things will be better when everything opens up and you can go to book bug sessions and stuff if you are in UK.
If you feel yourself getting stressed and going to shout my HV said it's fine to leave them in the cot or a bouncer for ten mins. Go and have a drink of water, have a wee, eat some chocolate then go back to baby.

I know it is sooo hard but look, you are posting on here for advice and this means you care.
Do you live in a town or village? Do you see any neighbours that you could even just invite for a coffee and they can bounce baby on their knee?

Even call your HV and ask them to come round, I'm sure they would.

I probably will sound really sullen but I just can’t. If I told the HV about this morning the baby would probably be taken off me. I think I probably just have to accept this is how it is at the moment. Hopefully it will get better. When I brought this up before I was just told to put him down in a dark room.

And I know horehound ... when I first had him and his naps were dreadful I just vowed to stop worrying. So I would drive somewhere nice for a walk and that meant he’d nap. It also got us out of the house. But he’s stopped reliably napping in the car now.

I do get out in the pram and the sling at least twice a day but the problem is he doesn’t always sleep and plus because of where we live you can’t really walk for any distance. So I do have to drive even if only for a couple of minutes and so transferring him from pram to car seat wakes him up!

Ok practical things to try are:
-Changing out carry cot for the pram seat and taking walks with baby more upright.
-Putting something under the mattress to raise baby's head up higher than tummy.
-Extra burping

I would think about trapped wind as well.. do bicycle legs and Tummy rubs in clockwise direction of doing on tummy and anticlockwise if doing on back.

Get yourself back to the Dr for a referral for reflux. You aren't just dealing with a baby who doesn't nap here.

I know this would be expensive bit could you get a travel system so he is in the car seat then that clips onto the frame of the pram? Then when you've done your walk you just pick up the seat and clip it back into the car.

That's great you're getting out and about though!

They’ve already told me there’s nothing more they can do.

Plus I don’t think it is reflux or not just reflux. Some days he’s okay but still won’t nap well.

I’m sorry if I’m just repeating what others have already posted but I did the following:

-tin foil taped over nursery windows with black cloth tape to make it completely pitch black
-white noise
-sleeping bag
-responsive settling - place baby in cot and pat/shush, if they escalate you can pick up until calm then place down and start again. I had the most success in patting the mattress very firmly near her bum (mimics heart beat from when they were inside you apparently).

• strict 2 hour wake window. Start the responsive settling after 1hr 45 mins awake to begin with because it will take time to work. I know baby seems like he won’t sleep until 2.5-3 hours but this is because he is chronically overtired. If you persist with this you can get baby settling in their cot in three days. If not settled/settling after 45 mins of this technique feed to sleep and hold for duration of the nap. Try again next time.

I truly understand how utterly horrendous this stage is

Poor you 😔 the 4 month sleep regression was horrendous for us. They are exhausted but just won't sleep, will they?

I see you've tried many methods to get him to sleep - have you ever tried bouncing on an exercise ball? That is my go-to to get my little one down. You can also try 'habit stacking' where you associate one thing with going to sleep - either singing the same song, patting them bum, stroking their head etc. It does take a while but they will eventually catch on and that can help.

That is a long wake window for a 4 month old. I wonder if you could take him into a dark room and do some quiet play with him once you hit 2 hours and see if it helps wind him down enough for you to try getting him down for a nap sooner. Even quiet time is better than nothing - at least you're reducing the stimulation so hopefully he relaxes a bit?

And embrace contact naps. Mine will only sleep on me. It was SO frustrating at first, it made me so resentful and angry. But now I see it as my relaxing time - I get a glass of water and set up Netflix on my iPad. Maybe a few biscuits. It's my time to recharge too, even if it's only a 30-40 minute nap.

If you're feeling angry, by all means, put him down for a bit. He will feed off your emotions so keeping hold of him when you're feeling like that won't do any good. But crying it out (long-term) is super damaging, especially for a baby so young.

Someone also recommended co-sleeping after his 5am wake up. I wonder if you brought him into your bed at around 4-4:30am he would maybe sleep through that 5am wake up if he's in contact with you. It could be worth a try.

I hope it gets better. He could pass this regression in a few weeks and it'll all change though. It won't last forever, just keep telling yourself that!

@Aliceandthemarchhare

I’ve been absolutely awful to him today through sheer frustration. I screamed when he threw up for a third time. Horrible.

This is tiredness OP. It doesn't make you a bad mother. Looking after a young baby is exhausting, especially if you're not getting a break yourself. You asked for advice about gentle sleep training - emphasise the training to yourself. Sometimes people try something once and it doesn't work so they give up. The HV suggested putting him down for naps in a dark room - how often did you try that? (Am asking kindly!) Do ask the HV to come back, I know they get a bad press on MN but both of mine were a great help when talking about issues.

There is always more they can refer to the hospital for treatment. They just won't unless badgered.

Have you thought about early weaning to help with reflux? Some don't like to but it has worked for a relative.

Have you got any baby classes starting locally?

That comment about badgering the drs is a reflection on the drs, not you OP.