Frustrated SAHD, frustrated working mum - anyone out there the same? any advice?

[drobbin]

Would welcome any advice.

We came back from overseas about 8 months ago and have been struggling to get back on our feet. We are both self-employed and DH has struggled on and off with his profession for years,s ome really busy patches but some dreadful ones.

With two toddlers and bills to pay, I am currently working 3 days and he does 1.5 days. This is causing huge problems. I have the potential to become full time but that would stop him working if any job leads came up (his job is one where work comes up in days not full weeks). He's also adamant about not putting the kids into childcare, I'd rather not but would if it meant ends meeting financially.

He loves our kids but hates being a SAHD. Our friends keep asking when he'll be working full-time and its shattering his confidence every time. His friends in particular seem to be awkward talking to him.

I feel resentful as the plan is always that this situation is temporary, so I can't build my business up and I'm still doing most of the childcare at the weekends plus all the housework and cooking.

I feel like I'm in both the traditional roles of mum and dad.

We can't really make any plans because he is always waiting to hear back from new potential jobs. We are eating into our small amount of savings which was supposed to be for our house deposit. Bizarrely he can still earn more in his profession working a couple of days than getting a low paid full time job which would mean we would have to pay childcare and wouldnt break even.

We are starting to resent eachother. I can see how miserable he is, how it goes against everything he was brought up with - to be the main income earner. I would love to have a bit more time off at the wekends but he'sgoing mad having had the kids most of the week. He's getting more and more down and losing the motivation to follow up work leads.

I don't know what to do anymore. I try being supportive, giving him breaks but end up resenting it when he's lying in every morning. He won't talk to me about money, we say we need to budget and then he goes and spends £50 on something we don't really need. I try not to go mad at him but I find it frustrating when I've worked hard to earn most of our money.

Sorry this is just turning into my own personal cyberspace rant. Just wondered if anyone else's partner was doing most of the childcare not by choice and experiencing these problems. We just seem to be drifitng on month after month.

Hi drobbin - I can't really offer any advice - I'm about to go back to work and DH will be the SAHD.

I just wanted to say I really feel for you both and hope you get some good advice here that can help.

It's a shame that DH's friends aren't more supportive - is there anywhere that he can meet other dads? Our local groups have a mix of mums and dads (although mostly mums and grannies!).

The only thing I thought of is do you have any family nearby that could help out at weekends to give you some time together without the kids?

Cheers I really appreciate your message and hope your DH will get on much better than mine! He's a great dad, but he would just be much happier working full-time.

No, we have no help which I think causes huge problems - with us both working and doing the kids we never get a break together during the day. Which is partly our choice from not putting them into childcare at all.

He's not a playgroup type and I can apprecite that.

I totally understand the playgroup thing - my DH doesn't mind playgroup but I'm sure that's due to lots of pretty mums and good cake! - perhaps I should be worried!

We've also got a local baby and toddler swimming group that a lot of dads go to. That might be a better place for him to meet other dads?

I don't know where you're based or how old yours are but one of the girls I know has twins and she gets Homestart to help so she can take them both swimming.

They might even be able to help at the weekend to give you a bit of time? Here's a link to their site www.home-start.org.uk/

My DH is a SAHD although now DD is in school he freelances 20 hours a week going up to 25 in the new year. He is not a playgroup type person and is very aware of being the token male in that sort of environment and really dosn't enjoy the company of a random gaggle of women. He would much rather be talking music with his mates... How old re your kids?? I think when they go to school it makes some aspects much easier, but also has hidden problems, such as holiday cover, inset days, sickies etc. I work full tim over 4 days and so I can chop & change my days which helps, but I know that being pretty much confined to home (he dosn't drive) does his head in most days. His life is the double daily walk to school & back and working from the living room from his laptop. He dosn't have a problem not being the breadwinner, but he does have a problem with boredom and lack of stimulation... I just feel permanently guilty and feel that I am neither doing right by my family or right by my job ( I think this is a common complaint from WOTH mums) but I have a much higher earning potential than him.

I don't think this helps you any, but I just wanted to let you know there are plenty of us out there! I think that looking at some form of childcare may help - it dosn't have to be full time, or even full days. You could do 2 mornings a week, or similar, which would give each of you time to sit back and collect your thoughts & remember who you are...?

Cheers all, I'll have a look at the homestart link. Bootsmonkey, you sound just like me with the guilt! It's hard to switch off...but reassuring to know it's not just me! In real life all the mums I know are full-time mums or they work part-time/full-time as does their partner and the kids get looked after in childcare...

Childcare really would help. We seem to just argue all the time at the moment and one of the biggest things is re childcare.

His traditional patterning is also that kids shouldn't have childcare at all (in his and his families opinion). I think one afternoon a week really wouldn't kill them, in fact they'd probably enjoy it..

The most frustrating thing is that life has been like this for so long. Things are always "about to change". Another job is always about to come up and to be fair it's waiting around for other people to make decisions rather than him not applying for anything...so if we start slotting childcare around our current working sitatuion it could all change next week or the week after...

I'm just starting to feel like he'll never get any more work and I hate the resentment I'm feeling about this, particulary as i know how rotten he feels about it and how he'd love to be working more. I look at people I know who married rich and whilst I don't want to be a WAG, I can't help wishing I had married someone with a stable and regular income, even if that wasn't much per month. And that makes me feel awful as I love him, he's my best friend and a great dad to my kids...i hate to feel like i've given up on him and his career...

Sorry, am tired and everything is feeling worse - is such a relief to just get it out of my head!

I think we are in a bit less extreme version of this sitn. I can earn a lot more money than DH. Financially he should stay home and I should work FT but neither of us would be comfortable with that. Our solution is I work 3 days he works 4 days and DD is with childminder 2 days. There is more to life than money and nothing wrong with liking a more traditional set up if that's what works for your family/
If your DH doesn't want to be SAHD then neither of you will be happy if he is forced into it but he's got to keep his end of the bargain think before spending, lower his standards about what work he will accept.
Really hope it gets better for you soon.

drobbin - he really is the one in the crux of the dilemma - he resents being a sahd, but won't put the children in childcare....

Could you experimentally interview some really good nannies and / or childminders - let him see hoow responsible, loving etc a nanny / childminder could be, and sort of tempt him with it? if you went f/t, could you afford a nanny for 3 days so that he would have 3 days when he could start and get his work portfolio built up again?

He really has to face up to the fact that his various standards / choices re spending / working / traditional beliefs just don't add up! But you can see that....how can you get him to see it? It does sound as if he would feel more confident in himself if he had the opportunity to earn more money.

I know what you mean about the regular income thing - DH's wasn't reliable so I had no choice in who should stay home and I'm sometimes envious of other mums who married "normal" earners - they have things like cars and non-Oxfam clothes!

If your DH's family are against childcare - where are they? Can they not at least turn up for the occasional weekend to help out?

A bit of childcare sounds like a good idea - as Bootsmonkey suggested - even just a couple of mornings. If they are toddlers then they might not be that far from nursery age. Could you persuade DH that it might be a good thing to get them used to a different environment?

Remember your tax credits too - it might help to give them a call and see how much help you could get with childcare?

Flexi time works well for some families - the parents can look after children on a kind of shift system.

If either of you has the sort of work that has flexi- potential, then that might be the way forward.

Cheers all, we've looked into tax credits but our accountant (we're both self-employed) wanted an idea of our final work situation for the rest of the financial year - until we accept that DH will or won't get anymore work, it's hard to predict that!

DH's family are very elderly - he was a mistake, although a very loved and appreciated one - they can do evening babysitting and call us the minute the girls get restless if we're only 5 mins drive away but no help during the day.

Had a long talk to him this morning, which was painful but at least we're communicating - explained my frustrations and he listened although I can see why he gets defensive - he never wanted to be in this position either. I've suggested times during the week where he can look into new work leads and I'll take sole charge of the kids, changing my work around if necessary.

He got a bit cross and said I was planning his week out - but I just can't stand drifting along like this any longer.

Drobbin: we are in a similar situation. I work 4 days a week and DH is self-employed. When I first went back to work he was doing all the childcare when I was away, I was doing the weekends and he was against the idea of using a childminder/nursery. Then we decvided to try a CM for a day or two a week to give him time to get some work done - it's worked out really well, though it has meant money is very tight. I'd talk to him about it, pointing out that if he doesn;t like taking your LO to groups a CM is a really good way of getting your LO to socialise with other kids. DS loves it, but he still spends most of the week with me or his dad. We'd be unhappy with f/t childcare but the p/t cm works out well. Dh still gets a bit frustrated with not having enough time (or money) but it is an improvement. He also enjoys looking after DS though, so wouldn't be happier working f/t.

I'd be v careful about 'taking charge' here - if your DH is sensitive about not earning much it isn;t going to help if YOU are taking control IYSWIM. Can you encourage him to come up with solutions (and nudge himtowards the solutions you think will work?)

Cheers EffiePerine, that's good advice and sad but nice to know someone else in same situation. Sounds like you've come to a good comprimise.

I've found a really nice nursery but we went to see it during half-term and there was a rowdy older kid there for the morning with his younger brother - DH has now written the wholeplace off because of this kid making so much noise, even though this kid would be at school the majority of the year and the staff were keeping an eye on things! Grrrr...

I work 3 days during the week and half a day at weekends so i take the LO's to toddlers and music class and anything else i can get my hands on during my 2 days with them during the week.

I'ts the lack of control I can't stand! He has lost so much confidence with business ventures that haven't worked that he's finding it hard to get the motivation to start up again. He works in quite a rare field of health care where there's not a lot of jobs. I can't help thinking what I would do, to make finding a job my main focus and be spending all available time trying to find one - coming up with plan B's if plan A's didn't seem to be happening.

So if I don't help and make time then he complains that he never has time to look for work. And if I do make time he complains that he's being told what to do.

Drobbin,

Would finances stretch to an au-pair? Much cheaper than a nanny or childcare (but comes with it's own set of 'rules' - see the au-pair board).

I almost had this, and can sympathise. I had to go back to work full time when dd was 6 months. DH became SAHD for the next 18 months before dd went to nursery at age 2. he then looked for work and is now, 6 months on, working (almost) full time.

I had exactly the same problems with DH and in the end had to do the 'cruel to be kind' thing. It was DH that wanted me to go back to work, and DH that was totally against childcare...... so something had to give (ie him). He either needs to accept that for the next (6 months, year, whatever) the kids come first and his feelings second (ie be a SAHD) or they need childcare (which is where the au-pair option may come in).

Admittedly I didn't really get it right. My DH moaned on a daily basis, and I ended up coming home from work and taking over, plus doing it all at weekends but because we had agreed that dd would go to nursery at age 2, I kept telling myself it 'was only 18 months'. It did cause rows, but in the main I bit my tongue to keep the peace, and now things are great.

Would setting a timeframe help (ie kids will go to nursery at age 1, 2, 3 etc) or could he do something out of his 'skill zone' just to keep finances ticking along until his business has built back up (ie work at B&Q for a year) ???

Smon ideas in any case. I can expathise with the guilt/resentment stuff and am happy to talk (but at work now, so really shoudl go do some

hell, and change my name back!

It sounds like a really difficult situation. If it were me, and I know its not, I'd go and see some local CMs.

If you find one thats really good, bring along your DH, let him see what she is like. Then TBH if it were me and again I know its not, unless he had any sane or rational objections, I would book in my children for at least one day a week.

Ok yes you will have gone ahead with something that he and his family are against, and incidentally I don't see how his families views come into it, it should be just the two of you deciding. However the current situation is crap, it isn't working, he feels guilty because he doesn't earn enough to allow you to be a SAHM and you are doing what women generally do i.e. doing everything, putting yourself and your needs last, and becoming rather resentful about it.

Hope it gets better for you.

Hi Drobbin
It's a difficult situation for both of you. As someone who freelances from home with a relatively high day rate but erratic work, I can sympathise with your DH to an extent. I think it it the sort of work pattern where when it works well it seems ideal for combinging with children - a high day rate = having to do fewer days paid work = more time with the children. But part of the reason for that high day rate is that you are assumed to be highly flexible about availability. I found I either had no work lined up at all or too many offers that I couldn't fit around childcare.

My solution, and it might not be one that your DH wants to consider, was to scale back, take slightly less well paid work that was more regular so that I could book in (and pay for) a couple of days a week childcare. But I am aware that this is a decision women seem to find themselves taking rather sooner than men.

Regardless of what he decides it seems to me that you need to untangle things a little bit. You say that because the situation is supposed to be temporary you can't build your business up. Perhaps you should turn it on its head and say that until the situation changes you are going to concentrate on building your business up.

Similarly with childcare at weekends and housework, there seems to be no reason why you should be doing most of it. I get annoyed when women who are at home with the kids all week don't get a break at the weekend, but that means a morning or afternoon rather than the whole weekend off. I think if possible both partners, whether working for money or doing caring work should have a break - that means you as well as him. And housework should be a joint responsiblity. I don't agree with the argument that the main earner gets off doing any housework, but neither does the main carer!

I'm sorry if I've got this completely wrong but it sounds to me a bit as if you are so worried about him feeling emasculated because his work hasn't taken off that you are taking on as much as possible of what might be seen as the traditional female role in order to stop him feeling any worse.

What will you do about childcare if his work does pick up? Is he only going to take work on the days you are at home (which must limit his ability to get work), or is he going to expect you to drop days of paid work to cover for him?

Finally, what would you like to be doing? Working full time? staying part time, but with him working a bit more than 1.5 days so you have some more money? staying at home? Not that we can always get exactly what we want but it does seem that you are putting a lot of time and effort into allowing him to do what he says he wants (even if he's not doing anything to get it), and not saying much about what you want.
sorry a bit rambling, kept getting interrupted!

Hi guys,

Thanks so much for such thoughtful and supportive advice. Ideally I don't want to work full-time, I've just been offered another long term contract that would see me doing so, but I'd hate to lose all of my week with my toddlers. I enjoy working part-time.

Dh and I had another chat this morning about this new contract I've been offered. He's been waiting to hear back about one job for over a month now, has chased them but they keep saying they'll let him know (is at a health centre and they need to get funding). I guess we have to wait it out on this one frustrating as it is and if this one doesn't come off then stop chasing rainbows.

I said that if he didn't get this job, at what point would we just have to accept me working full-time and him taking on the traditionally female role of childcare, more house stuff during the week, shopping etc. He just can't bear to think about doing that. It's the last situation he would ever have wanted.

But as our girls get older (twins currently 2.5) it seems ridiculous for us to be struggling to support them when I could be working full-time and they could be getting a better quality of life.

And the most frustrating thing is that I desperately wanted another child and so did he up until a few months ago. If I had gone back full-time six months/a year ago we could have afforded it as I would have had maternity pay. But because we were waiting for his work to build up, the months are slipping by and we'll soon be too old to do so. He says we can't afford it, but we could if I worked full time and got maternity pay.

It's just soooo hard to accept that his career has in effect failed. And hard for him to retrain now mid-30's for a new career when he's only skilled in one area.

Trouble is we need childcare to cover me working more, not him unless he gets busier and I can cut back. Nannies in our area are £90 per day and would take a huge chunk of my earnings. Don't have room for an au pair.

I'd happily cut back to 2 days per week. I just want to know one way or another. If he got busier he has accepted that the girls would have to go to nursery 2 mornings per week.

"I'm sorry if I've got this completely wrong but it sounds to me a bit as if you are so worried about him feeling emasculated because his work hasn't taken off that you are taking on as much as possible of what might be seen as the traditional female role in order to stop him feeling any worse". Millie, you're absolutely right. I am just desperately worried about him as I've seen how depressed and unhappy he is with his work situation. He has had busy spells over the years and was a different person. Now he's sleeptalking, tossing and turning and never able to relax.

I'm so desperate to create a nice home for my girls that I just take on stuff to avoid arguments, I don't have the energy to argue at the moment. I feel like such a cow having a go at him about his work and my career, but I've spent years being supportive and nothing seems to be changing for the better.

Hi Drobbin,

I am in a similar situation - and dh is even more frustrated now we are repeating it with dd2! She is 11 months old, and I've just returned to work.

Dh was also opposed to childcare, but hated being ft SAHD. We are going to try a CM 2 days a week (9-3 to fit in with dd1's school hours). We don't really have enough money - but it's either that or dh's sanity,

My dh has all the same reactions - esp me continually trying to 'solve' the situation. He also regards himself as 'off duty' whenever I'm around and lies in.

There is no easy answer, and I'm also hoping some problems will ease when dd2 goes to school as well. No advice, just nice to know we're not the only ones - my dh feels incredibly guilty that he doesn't enjoy being at home with the kids.

i'm sorry, drobbin, but i think he is taking you for an absolute mug. i think you need to be less supportive - he seems like a spoiled child to me, sorry.

Hi fondant, do you mind me asking does your dh work while your little ones are at the childminder? Sorry to hear you are in same boat, but at least its a relief not to be the only one!

Bossykate, i can see why you say that. But when he's been busy at work he has worked incredibly hard and the 1/5 days he works he is working hard. And he's not sitting around complaining when he's with the kids, he really is a very good dad - he'd just rather not do it full-time.

But I can see that he's incredibly down and struggling madly to pick himself up. I do state my point of view to him, believe me, that's why I end up feeling like a cow! He is supportive of my career he'd just like his own too. I don't think many men would choose to be working 1.5 days per week, particulary once their kids start school.
Soceity is still deeply biased towards SAHD's in many ways..

yes, but..

drobbin he wants to have his cake and eat it too! this isn't about society being biased against sahds - because you're saying he doesn't want to be one! ok fine. but then he says he doesn't want to put the children into childcare either? as a wohm i don't have much sympathy with an attitude like that.

especially when his angsty hand-wringing about a situation which thousands of parents just grit their teeth and get on with every day is making you really miserable!

tbh i think childcare plus more work from him would make both of you happier.

No, he wouldn't currently be working when dd is at CM. Hoping it will give him some childfree space to either get a job, retrain, or something! At the moment he is hardly ever away from the kids. When I am at home, he is also around so still gets all the kid stress stuff. He never gets a break to be able to reflect and think.

Just can't go on the way it is without him having a nervous shakedown - and then the kids will not have a good father any more. I can't stop him being unhappy, but hopefully extra help will alleviate some of the stress. I'm hoping that will in turn let him see things differently - but if not at least we'll all be happier!