Frustrated SAHD, frustrated working mum - anyone out there the same? any advice?

[drobbin]

Would welcome any advice.

We came back from overseas about 8 months ago and have been struggling to get back on our feet. We are both self-employed and DH has struggled on and off with his profession for years,s ome really busy patches but some dreadful ones.

With two toddlers and bills to pay, I am currently working 3 days and he does 1.5 days. This is causing huge problems. I have the potential to become full time but that would stop him working if any job leads came up (his job is one where work comes up in days not full weeks). He's also adamant about not putting the kids into childcare, I'd rather not but would if it meant ends meeting financially.

He loves our kids but hates being a SAHD. Our friends keep asking when he'll be working full-time and its shattering his confidence every time. His friends in particular seem to be awkward talking to him.

I feel resentful as the plan is always that this situation is temporary, so I can't build my business up and I'm still doing most of the childcare at the weekends plus all the housework and cooking.

I feel like I'm in both the traditional roles of mum and dad.

We can't really make any plans because he is always waiting to hear back from new potential jobs. We are eating into our small amount of savings which was supposed to be for our house deposit. Bizarrely he can still earn more in his profession working a couple of days than getting a low paid full time job which would mean we would have to pay childcare and wouldnt break even.

We are starting to resent eachother. I can see how miserable he is, how it goes against everything he was brought up with - to be the main income earner. I would love to have a bit more time off at the wekends but he'sgoing mad having had the kids most of the week. He's getting more and more down and losing the motivation to follow up work leads.

I don't know what to do anymore. I try being supportive, giving him breaks but end up resenting it when he's lying in every morning. He won't talk to me about money, we say we need to budget and then he goes and spends £50 on something we don't really need. I try not to go mad at him but I find it frustrating when I've worked hard to earn most of our money.

Sorry this is just turning into my own personal cyberspace rant. Just wondered if anyone else's partner was doing most of the childcare not by choice and experiencing these problems. We just seem to be drifitng on month after month.

i know, i know!

you're preaching to the converted. it's just that we've always just trusted that things will pick up for him and this is the first time i've found it hard to believe that any more.

and had to think about me working full-time and how to build my business.

for the girls' first two years, we had my maternity pay and then we worked overseas and were very lucky in house sitting rather than having to pay rent. he was working 3 days but it didn't matter so much as our living costs were lower.

so this is kinda a new situation over the last 7 months since we've been back in the UK. he never had 5 days a week work pre-children but it didn't matter as i worked full-time. sometimes he'd earn more than me if he had a busy few days and sometimes less.

it's not like he's ranting and raving about being a SAHD though, just that he's so deeply unhappy underneath about it. and not knowing when to accept that his career is not working. doesn't seem much point putting them into childcare if he's not working, he may as well be with them most of the week. the girls love being with him and he does loads of stuff with them.

(explain to me what a wohm is?)

sorry fondant, xposted to kate. would be really interested to hear how you get on - a friend suggested we do the same, having the girls go to a CM whilst DH focusses on finding work.

Is your DH considering new careers? Really hope things work out for you..

wohm = work outside the home mum

sorry, have i missed something?

what exactly is the issue? i thought he wanted to build up his business more? perhaps he needs to speculate to accumulate - i.e. work harder at it to build it up, retrain or something?

believe me if you are resentful now, you will be very bitter if you back f/t if you don't want to - to compensate for dh being a bit drippy.

exactly, i think the two of you need to bite the bullet and get some childcare so that he can either work harder at building up his existing business or find something else.

He does want to build up his business, but theres not many opportunities to do so within his field.

I'd struggle if someone told me to find a new career, particulary if it meant giving up all hope on my current one. I think he is very depressed and I think that's making it harder for him to make a decision about a new career and get together the motivation to find one.

Sorry have obviously touched a nerve with you, am not saying we are special or worse off than anyone else. Am just trying to get my head around our situation and am grateful for all advice and comments.

I will look into childcare options again.

Our dd1 went to a Montessori school from age 3 for 3 mornings a week. She gradually went up to 3 full days per week at 4.

We didn't feel so bad about it because it was more like a school and not all day nursery or childcare. Maybe your dh wd be happier with something similar?

drobbin, i'm sorry if you think i've been too aggressive in my comments. i'm genuinely a bit puzzled about what the priority of the issues is here? i got the impression that the main problem, the source of all others, was your dh's unhappiness regarding his career? if he doesn't want to sah, and that's ok, lots of people don't, then he's got to do something right? and that could mean doing something else or building up his existing business?

ok. depression. btdt. but you'll end up depressed if you try and compensate. would your dh get help for his depression? is he even acknowledging that depression might be an issue?

i don't think my comments are helping much, so i'll leave this now. i am very sympathetic to your situation and wish you well in coming to the best solution for all concerned. good luck.

.... And it was cheaper than CM or nursery

I've been thinking about your situation some more. I think if he doesn't want to be a SAHD then he needs to get over his objection to paid for childcare. I would seriously look at local childminders, particularly if he is worried about group care for small children. Childminders have very tight limits on the number of children they can care for, and a good childminder can be brilliant. I've learned loads from mine - she has a DS a year older than my DD and has become a real source of advice and help in dealing with day to day toddler problems becuase she's not only been there but she knows my DD. Also they tend to cost less than other types of childcare.

As for the tax credits situation, you can put in a claim based on estimated earnings - that's what I do. You have to be careful if you earn lots more than you estimated because you will have to pay the money back, but it sounds like you would know when this was likely to happen (i.e. your DH gets a big contract). I think I based my first claim on my previous year's accounts.

If you were able to sort out some childcare to give him a bit more time to look for new contracts that might help. To be honest I find that trying to do everything in a couple of days a week is really difficult - it takes me at least half a day to get into work mode again sometimes. So much freelance work is based on networking, and it can be hard to network if you never get to go to anything.

When I went back to work after maternity leave I gave myself some time just to go to conferences, meet old colleagues for coffee and so on to put out feelers for work. But I did also set myself a time limit - I had a certain amount of money saved and I transfered some of that to our current account each month as 'wages'. I knew once that ran down I had to take a job, any job.

Maybe your DH should think about doing a part time job, or temping for a couple of days, leaving a day or so free to try to build up his main business again. This would get him out of the house and back into the habbit of working again. I know from experience how easy it can be to slip into a negative circle when you are unemployed - depressed because no work,no action to look for work because depressed. If your DH accepts that you will need childcare if he gets more work then it sounds like his refusal to consider childcare now may in fact be a way of not dealing with the problems he is facing finding work. Trying a different tack might help break that cycle.
good luck

millie, that is an excellent post.

Actually she was 2 when she first went to Montessorri school now I think about it ...[witters away endlessly to herself....]

Millie that's so kind of you to give so much thought to our situation - I really appreciate it. I think what everyone has been suggesting, at least one session of childcare per week is a good idea. It would give DH thinking time or even just give us time together as a couple to talk things through without shoutyness.

Thank you. I think he is completely burying his head in the sand about everything. He was promised a big contract by a friend when we got back and that came to nothing and that knocked his confidence even more.

Kate - I do see what you're getting at and you're not offending me. But it's not the easiest thing in the world to change career just like that.

He's an acupuncturist, he has very little admin skills and I'm not sure what he would retrain to do. I'm not sure I could pick a whole new career out of the air on request..any suggestions welcomed if you can think of one for him.

does he have somewhere to practise from? where do you live?

does he have a specialism, e.g. smoking cessation?

he currently works for someone else in a health clinic 1/5 days per week - about an hours drive from where we live (in NE).

has been approaching all other health clinics/doctors within 2 hour radius.

is waiting to hear back from a health clinic locally, but they are trying to sort out various internal issues before they can let him practise from there.

his attempts at doing his own place from rented premises haven't worked out in the past- not making enough/don't have enough money to invest to market.

so for now he's scouring the adverts and desperately contacting all his contacts trying to find something. his biggest success was working for someone else a few years ago, 3 busy days per week but the clinic closed down.

are you alan sugar in disguise?

specialise in sports injuries.

Fondant, Montessori sounds good. There's not one near us sadly. But there's a good pre-school they can go to two mornings per week from next spring.

why do you say that? have i told anyone they're fired?

he has been trying very hard then. would he consider moving to another area of treatment then, i.e. addiction help? it wouldn't be a total change of direction but would maybe increase his options?

No, you just have a great way of getting to the point and you make me laugh, even though you probably don't mean too!

He could look into retraining. I'm not sure of the expense/time needed to do so.

I do appreciate all the help. Much easier to unburden yourself in cyberspace.

damn just lost huge post! Not entirely dissimilar situation here, can't face retyping all I'm afraid, but here are some ideas from our perspective, although our life is a work in progress and what is right one day is wrong the next. Would appreciate any updates from you as other people's journeys in this field always interesting!

1. Be honest - (you are doing this already) - it can feel very wrong, especially if dh is depressed, but you MUST. Not every single second, but I would say that 30 minutes download chat per day is pretty essential - what are today's worries, what are the fears, what do you think each other is thinking. Sounds like hell? yes, doesn't it. The effects are worth it though. Try it for a week (if not doing it already) and see.

1a You will not have a life of routine and certainty while this is the life you are aiming for. You just won't. Is this an issue for you or for DH?

1. Is dh regretting the move back? Are you? Not saying you should go back but you need to acknowledge this (you are, I'm not saying you're not!) - would everything be brilliant if you were elsewhere?

1. Claim tax credits on forecast income as Millie says. Ask dh to do it today, you can do it by phone on the helpline (unless they have got tougher on this) and it's a huge relief once it's done, plus massive difference in finances. He won't want to do it because it will bring him down in front of your eyes to acknowledge what his income is going to be this year. If you have to, do it yourself, but obv tell him you are doing it.

1. We have same problem re unable to fund premises. Dh moved out to the shed we are lucky enough to have (workwise) and things improved, plus we had enjoyable massive car boot sale/dump clearout. Your dh needs a space of his own in some form for work stuff - does he have it?

1. Sorry, I've missed where the 'no childcare' message has come from - is it purely dh articulating this, is it direct messages from his family, or is it you constructing it from offhand comments? I would get v manipulative on this. Say to dh that you cannot see a way forward without childcare (maybe after you have got your tax credit assessment and he can see what the income will be). I got same message from my extended family, plus some from dh's family, but thank God not from actual grandparents, plus the latter pony up with enormous practical help. I assume dh's family are overseas? If not, if they care that much, they can turn up and take the kids. I'm doing an encouraging course at the moment which shows that in many, many societies aruond the world, once children are weaned, the mothers DON'T do the childcare, their older siblings or peers do, or in some cases the grandparents. Message? Your children need a stable, trustworthy team of carers which can include one or two paid people without an inevitable sheaf of ASBOs being the result.

1. Try a nannyshare. Doesn't feel like 'chlidcare'. Is cheap. Is fantastic when it works.

1. Once you do set up some care, are you getting childcare vouchers? (Hard to pin down what to do but really easy to set up if your employer hasn't got them yet. Can do via any of the companies doing it, or can even do very low-tech version yourselves I think, though I never quite got there before stopping working).

oh PS dh did free workshop via the Inland Revenue about what you can actually claim against tax as a self-employed person. Magic!

i would doubt you have spare rooms, who does, we don't, but if you can find one somehow, rent it out tax free (see Inland Revenue website, search under 'rent a room')

Also, at relaxed chats or get-togethers, do have detailed talks with parents about how they really did manage at different ages - sooner or later I guarantee the magic words 'oh, I can't remember' or 'oh yes, Dawn the 9-year-old from down the road used to take you all to the park for 2 hours every day when you were tiny' or 'yes, I looked after the two of you for 24 hours a day for 5 years, and it was fine, oh and by the way I'm still addicted to Valium' or 'i had no help at all, except Mrs Evans twice a week' will appear, and you can stop feeling oppressed by how Other People Managed.

Wow, cheers choosyfloosy what a thoughtful message.

Is your DH in similar field of work?

No childcare comes mainly from DH. The girls went to nursery when we were abroad, just for two hours twice a week because we were alone overseas with no help and twin babies. He hated them going but I forced the issue as I was going mad.

I'm sure it's also his traditional upbringing. His parents still can't believe that I work! They are supportive of him, but feel he should be the breadwinner. They would love to help more but are frail and elderly (he was a late in life accident, although a very loved one). Neither of them are able to lift or run after our toddlers, so they can't offer any practical help.

I would love more stability mainly because my childhood was spent with a father who was always about to build the next business venture and had some flash cash periods and some scary times of selling everything and remortaging the house.

Oh my god. That's so freudian. I've married my father figure. Eeek. Can't believe I never sussed that one out quite so clearly before.

Anyway. We enjoyed our time overseas but would both rather be in the UK. My work can also only be done in this country.

Would love to see the results of your research into care giving.

So, I say to DH that even if he doesn't know quite what he wants to retrain to be..he needs some time to look into it..will keep you updated. really hope things work out for you as well.

No spare room and we are renting ourselves. You're so right about Other People Managing, we have friends with two active and able sets of grandparents who still choose to use childcare as well and their children are happy as larry.

DH's mother had no help. In fact they lived in a very rural location and she had no car and no bus route for the first two years with two under two. Had to wait for her husband to take them out at weekends. I would have gone loopy. Things could be worse!

hey, twins - hadn't picked that up, sorry! Pardon me, but is there any family member who DID have twins who might be able to 'subtly' broach the issue with your dh? Hey, what happens at your local Twins Club? I only have one ds - I can't really say what would work - they will know, surely?

I wouldn't rush into the 'retraining' conversation unless you have to (unless that's coming from dh, haven't quite worked that out, sorry). See first of all if the tax credits claim can bring you up to a more reasonable income and avoid you having to do something you don't want to like work full time.

[hushed horror at your dh's mum's situation]
I'm sorry. I know a lot of SAHPs love what they do and survive 5 years or more quite happily, and if I'd had to do it I would have found a way. Not without any transport to other places though. And not in the country.

My mum did it. She is great with small children and not very sociable except with family. And she still dates the breakup of her marriage to the birth of her second child, when things got really tough and dad was unable to help and take part.

My dh is a lawyer of a specialised type. He doesn't earn as much as you might think, but like your dh it's still a much better rate for say 2 hours work than he could earn for 2 days of a basic job, plus it's interesting. The isolation does send him funny though.

Does your dh seem more cheerful on the days when he's working, or does it not really help? If the latter, then I think he really could do with seeing the GP/getting referred to a psychiatrist for his depression (sorry again if he already has). He won't want to of course....