Anyone else feel like a fool for not sleep training?

[Lelophants]

I think I know the answer to this because every baby, mum and relationship is different. I also don't want to make this a judgemental post, but would like to hear from any mums more similar to me and see how your kids turned out! Do you regret avoiding the whole sleep training fiasco? Were you also the only one you knew not to do it?

I dont want to sleep train for various reasons and I am happy with that, but it's starting to get me down how I'm the only one out of my friends who hasn't and I keep wondering whether I'm just being stupid.

It's just me still breastfeeding, going to bed early, missing out on late night chats and consistent naps. A few local friends who were similar are now starting to sleep train their 1 year olds (who were adamantly against it before). My friends who have had babies after me are also now doing it. One of these has a 3 month old and she keeps going on about how well it is working and giving me sleep tips, which is driving me a bit mad tbh. She keeps gently patronisingly telling me how basically really I should've done this by now as my ds is 1 and her 3 month old (I know ) is great and I need to toughen up and do it.

I feed him to sleep, still breastfeed and frequently bedshare at night. Naps are up and down and yes I am tied to the pushchair during rain or shine and sometimes I tear my hair out a little bit, but I still find it better than the alternative and I want to do what's best for him, which is what we are doing currently. I feel comfortable parenting this way but sometimes I am made to feel like I am being a bit of a soft idiot.

Sometimes I wonder if I should just try it for an easy life. I can't look forward so can't see how he will turn out and what is best for him. I guess I'm looking for some reassurance that I'm not an idiot for doing what I'm doing and my ds will be OK! And worth missing out on the 12 hour stint at night.

Thanks user853600.

I suppose the difference is that, when I talk about sleep training, I'm not talking about putting my children to bed, shutting the door, and not coming back for 12 hours.

Being able to settle yourself to sleep independently is a key skill. A good night's sleep is beneficial to the whole family. I would see it in the same way as potty training, it's my responsibility to teach my child good sleep skills, in the same way as it is to teach them to use the toilet.

That said, I have never left my children to cry alone, and very quickly you get to know their cry, and can distinguish between a scared, hysterical cry, and a tired whimper. But I have encouraged them to sleep in their own space, had regular bedtimes and regular routines, not bought them into my bed (unless unwell), not bought them back downstairs etc.

I don't believe that is cruel.

@Lelophants yes we helped DS to be comfortable in his sleep space but he wasn’t left to cry. I don’t know why people think the only two options are leave them to cry or not sleep train. There’s plenty of options.

@Lelophants you've been ladling out an awful lot of "I'm not judging but (insert subtle judgement)" about sleep training for someone who doesn't know anything about it, by the sounds of things.

Maybe next time you want to start a thread telling people how you could never ever bring yourself to do XYZ because it's so unnatural and feels cruel (but of course you're not judging anyone who does do it) you should take the time to actually find out what XYZ is.

@ShirleyPhallus

Google the disappearing chair and shush pat - both very gentle sleep training methods!

I'm aware of those methods and agree they're more gentle but they still don't work for all babies and can involve a lot of shushing and patting (and crying!) for very little sleep.

However I can see you have been offended by this. I'm going to leave the thread now as this has just continued an already very heated topic.

Thank you for those who answered the original post!

I co-slept with both mine , youngest (2 this week) still shares , feeds to sleep and breastfeeds during the night .

But I also have a DD (12) and those moments go so quickly , so although there are some moments when I think it would be great just put her down and have my evening and space in bed , the years are so short and one day when I'm older and they are all grown up and have left home I will never regret the nights I spent with them tucked right in to me.

And fwiw DD12 co-slept for years and still frequently did until my DD2 was born (OH worked nights) but easily went into her own bed and slept great , no coming to get me in the night , never scared of the dark etc .

I sleep trained with help of a Consultant at 12 months
The thing is my son was crying because he couldn't sleep and he was frustrated. We had loads of tears even if I put him in my bed and breastfed on demand! One time on holiday he fed for 4 hours between 1am and 5am and cried when I put him down.

I couldn't carry on like this, I had a job.

He's never upset now, he still shouts for us if he needs something but he wakes smiling and laughing every day.

It was good for us.

The most judgement I've ever experienced was from people who don't understand or take time to understand our situation, just say how cruel we are.

No i never sleep trained and my babies have learnt to sleep through no problem. They all get there in the end. I think sleep training is cruel.

@laudemio what about it do you think is cruel?

I'm aware of those methods and agree they're more gentle but they still don't work for all babies and can involve a lot of shushing and patting (and crying!) for very little sleep.

That wasn’t your question though

However I can see you have been offended by this. I'm going to leave the thread now as this has just continued an already very heated topic

I haven’t been offended by it?! But it is a bizarre thing to start a thread with accusations about something you don’t seem to know much about. Maybe worth trying a sleep consultant who would be able to clarify things for you and help

Most humans don't sleep for 12 hours straight. It is perfectly normal and healthy for babies to wake and want to be near their caregivers during the night just as they are with them all day

My baby sleeps for 12 hours straight sometimes and hasn’t had any sleep training - he just does. Most adults don’t sleep for 12 hours straight, but I think that amount of sleep is normal and healthy for a 6 month old baby.

On the topic of "gentle" methods, the most useful thing I ever read about sleep training was that all methods boil down to the same thing - giving the baby the chance to get used to doing it by themselves.
My baby was immensely frustrated by the "gentle" tactics of patting through the cot bars, my "comforting" presence in the doorway, etc. Mummy so close, yet, unaccountably, not picking her up and feeding her! In the end, it was easier on her to close the door and let her stop focusing on us so that she could be more receptive to sleep. Realising that all methods boil down to the same things snapped me out of my confusion and gave me the confidence to choose controlled crying (aka controlled comforting!) rather than the drawn-out methods that weren't working for us.

Leaving babies who cannot comprehend what is going on to cry, not for me. Shush pat, fine waiting a moment before picking up in case they are just transitioning between sleep cycles and having a whinge fine. But generally I think there are a lot of 'sleep consultants' preying on tired parents with questionable advice.

My DS (6.5 months) sometimes cries when put in his cot for a nap, before falling asleep. I sit next to the cot, stroke his head to calm him down and make “sshhhh” sounds - he can see me at all times. But I don’t pick him up because I know it will hugely prolong the process of getting him to sleep. Am I being cruel?

I never sleep trained either of my DS' - if by sleep training you mean some form of leaving them to cry. DS1 I never had to - he was a great sleeper. And DS2 I tried very briefly when he was 18 months old and he got so worked up so quickly he was sick so that was the end of that.

I have always tried to instil sleep "tools" though like set bedtimes, bedtime routines, set nap times/routines when they were old enough, and always tried to form good sleep habits eg putting down awake.

Your sleep situation does sound really tough, I don't think I personally could've/would've wanted to cope as I have struggled when DS2 goes through bad sleep phases.

I don't think you'll regret not doing training in the form of leaving your DC, as that's not always fool proof. But I do think it's a bit foolish to not try and instil any sleep habits/routines at all.

*Does it involve waking every 40 minutes though? Because that's what i was living with for 10 solid months.

Also, not using a pushchair because you're going for a more "natural" approach - good luck with that when your kid is 25kg but still not up to walking for more than 10min*

Yes, it can do. My 2 year old wakes hourly.
I know it's normal and I chose to have a child so I continue to meet dc's needs.

I don't need luck, but thank you. We're over halfway through and will continue to go till dc wants to stop. We have lots of comfortable woven wraps that are great for older children.

actually teaching a child to be comfortable in their own sleep space, and teach them how to put themselves to sleep, is an important skill

That cannot be taught.
Sleep Training forces them to feel unheard. It doesn't teach anything.
Those are developmental leaps.
The same way leaving a child in a urine-aoaked bed doesn't teach them to get up and go to the toilet.

the years are so short and one day when I'm older and they are all grown up and have left home I will never regret the nights I spent with them tucked right in to me.

This is lovely.

actually teaching a child to be comfortable in their own sleep space, and teach them how to put themselves to sleep, is an important skill

That cannot be taught.
Sleep Training forces them to feel unheard. It doesn't teach anything.*

I'm wondering, have you seen any research papers on this? I've had a quick search but I can't find anything, could you point me in the direction of any you've read?

I cannot see how helping your child to learn to sleep in their own sleep space, and fall asleep independently can be cruel, or how it forces children to be unheard. If you're with them, teaching them the skills needed, how are they unheard?

It's such emotive language to use, I am really hoping that you have research to back it up.

@user853600

*Does it involve waking every 40 minutes though? Because that's what i was living with for 10 solid months.

Also, not using a pushchair because you're going for a more "natural" approach - good luck with that when your kid is 25kg but still not up to walking for more than 10min*

Yes, it can do. My 2 year old wakes hourly.
I know it's normal and I chose to have a child so I continue to meet dc's needs.

I don't need luck, but thank you. We're over halfway through and will continue to go till dc wants to stop. We have lots of comfortable woven wraps that are great for older children.

A 2yr old waking hourly isn't developmentally normal though. It sounds like they haven't learnt to join their sleep cycles, which developmentally usually happens at 4 months. It's very, very normal to "come up to the surface" between cycles but waking completely suggests that the joining-up process never happened. Generally speaking, this is usually down to parents jumping to comfort the baby at the first whinge, often before they fully wake, which means they never learn to get back into deep sleep by themselves.

Broken sleep hampers development. Your 2yr old really needs at least a couple of solid hours a night (preferably 10+!) and I'd recommend speaking to your HV to see what they suggest.

Sleep training was added the best thing we ever did. All four had it. They are gorgeous well adjusted teenagers/kids. It turned me from a knackered, shouty stressed parent into one that enjoyed engaging with their kids. My sister on the other hand was against sleep training and had a child waking her up every night until they were 12.

Sleep training teaches that them not to wake up all fucking night. What is better than a full night sleep.

I think there are different ways to sleep train - we did it with DS at seven months, but I NEVER left him to cry. Grumble, yes, and complain but I wouldn't let him get distressed as I worried like you OP that he would learn nobody would come when he cried. By that age I could tell his different cries and we let him grumble and complain but only for two minutes then would go in and comfort and put him down again.
It worked for us and he slept through on the second night and has been a good sleeper since - we've had regressions and some broken nights, so even sleep trained babies don't mean perfect sleep all the time whatever your friends say. But he has been much happier in his own room, settling himself .
Despite this I don't regret not doing it earlier (like you I had friends who did it at three months, I wasn't ready and to be frank neither was he) and I had stopped breastfeeding by then due to a supply issue so I do think that made it easier.
Had I continued breast feeding I suspect I wouldn't have sleep trained when I did

What I'm trying to say in a rambling way is that what works for one won't work for the other and you shouldn't feel bad about your choices if you're happy with the way you're parenting. Doesn't matter what your friends say, it's what works for you.

I learned from my first. The others were sleep trained. I am so pleased for them that I learned the error of my ways.

Also just wanted to add, we discovered that the reason DS was waking up before he went into his own room and was sleep trained was because I was waking him up with my snoring so he was much much happier in his own space. I felt stupid when I realised that

But again, wasn't ready to move him beforehand, so I'm happy with the way we did things.

I was also under the impression that sleep training meant leaving a screaming baby for long stretches of time before I did it, and this isnt what we did at all as I couldn't have coped with that. But like I say, everyone is different

I’ve said this on this thread already but you can sleep train without leaving a baby to cry!! And it’s not basically the same as cc or cio as someone up thread said. You can do it so gradually that they barely cry at all. And if they do you are there cuddling them through it. A baby who is cuddled whilst crying doesn’t have the same raised stress hormone as a baby who is crying alone. The method I used with my own babies and with the families I work with you never leave baby crying alone.