Postnatal depression & struggling new baby and toddler

[peonies1988]

Hi everyone,

Never been on here before but just wanted to reach out to see if there’s anyone in the same boat. I’m on baby number 2 (4weeks old) and have a 2.5 year old also. Following birth of first DD, I was admitted to a mother and baby unit for postnatal depression and anxiety. Following birth of my second DD, I did okay for the first week or so but have really taken a downward turn and my PND is rearing its horrible head. Doesn’t help that my baby has suspected CMPI and reflux so she has been sooooo unsettled since birth, she also had tongue tie. On top of this, my toddler (like all of them!) is really challenging - I’m really trying to pay her attention and be patient as I know it’s a huge transition for her but I’m honestly struggling SO much, I cry a lot and it seems like everyone else is holding it together. My husband had to come home from work yday because I had a breakdown. I also have terrible mastitis which isn’t helping but would just love to hear from other mamas who’ve got through this period. Please tell me it gets better x

It will but you need to help yourself by ringing your midwife/health visitor and getting a doctor's appointment for antidepressants. You need a little rest that's all. Can toddler stay with GPs for a few days, can DH take some annual leave to help you have a breather? Xxxx

Sorry to hear things are hard.
Would switching to formula help at all? Breastfeeding is so consuming. Or a bit of both maybe?
How much sleep are you getting? Could your husband help?

Thank you both so much for coming back to me, it really means a lot. I’m combination feeding at the moment, little one has been prescribed hypoallergenic formula but she hates it poor thing (it smells like stale mini cheddars.) I’m hoping husband will be able to take a week off and will speak to DH’s parents tomorrow about watching toddler for a few days. It just makes me feel so guilty like I’m not there for my children/incapable. I’m currently on fluoxetine, not sure I’d be here without it xxx

Also thinking I’m going to stop expressing (she’s never taken to breast much to my disappointment) as it’s so time consuming - both literally and mentally. She’s also on gaviscon and omeprazole xxx

Hi OP, I really feel for you

I have some things in common with you, I've just had my second child (she's nearly 4 weeks old) and I also have a 3yo. I've also had depression in the past and probably had PND with DC1 although it was never diagnosed and not as severe as yours by the sounds of it, that sounds really tough DC1 had tongue tie (I got mastitis too) and he also had silent reflux caused by CMPA but we didn't discover that until much later (when we started giving some formula).

Firstly I urge you to get the tongue tie divided ASAP if you haven't yet done so. This made the world of difference for us. The tongue tie division should make breastfeeding much easier. Then you won't have to faff about with expressing (although it can be worth expressing a bit of milk if you want a break and want to avoid giving formula). Also if baby won't take the hypoallergenic formula, you could try mixing it with expressed breast milk, or I've heard that putting a drop or two of vanilla in the formula can help!

Have you cut all dairy out of your diet? There is loads of helpful info and advice on this website including a diary free treats list dilanandme.com/dairyfree/treats-list/
If you're on Facebook there's a helpful group on there too ("Breastfeeding with CMPA and other allergies")

Having a newborn is hard enough but you also have a quadruple whammy of tongue tie, Mastitis, CMPA and reflux - which is really fucking hard. But it will get better. Once the dairy is out of baby's system they'll be much more settled. If you can get the tongue tie and feeding sorted, you shouldn't get mastitis any more.

I don't know about you, but personally I find that sleep deprivation is really damaging for my mental health, and if I can just get a few decent stretches of sleep I feel much better. So if you're the same you should prioritise getting sleep and call in as much help as you can get to make sure you're able to sleep (husband, extended family, postnatal doula or night nanny if you can afford one).

Does your oldest go to nursery or a childminder at all? If not could you afford to send them even if it's just for a couple of days or half-days per week?

Gosh I could have written your post when my second was a baby. Milk allergy and everything. It's the hardest thing I've done and I promise it gets so so much easier. Do you have any childcare for your toddler? That made a big difference. Good luck x

Thank you both so much. @NameChange30 yes we got the tongue tie sorted but she was initially much more unsettled for a few days and tbh things have only gone from bad to worse. Did you find anything helped with the reflux? I know it’ll pass in time but it’s distressing for her and for me. They’ve prescribed infant gaviscon and thankfully she’s still pooping but I’m expecting constipation to arrive soon; it certainly did with my first little one. I will have a look at the FB group, thanks so much. My toddler goes to nursery 3 days a week and which is brilliant and gives me a bit of respite but little one cries so much I very rarely get to use the time for sleep/rest.

In terms of the breastfeeding, I have tried and tried and tried...and tried again. She latches for maybe two minutes then pulls off screaming which devastated me. I have cut dairy out of my diet but just can’t face expressing anymore, it’s draining the life out of me. I soooo wish she’d breastfeed xxx

Thanks @alittlehelp so glad to know it does eventually get better. Yes thankfully she does go to nursery a few days a week - I feel terrible sending her tbh because she’s always upset and sometimes even throughout the day apparently and is quite relentless in asking for me but I really couldn’t cope otherwise xxx

Oh and congratulations @NameChange30 xxx

Exactly the same situation but with my first (&only) so can only talk about that side of things but holy hell the first part of his life was sent from the devil himself and it still makes me shudder now! It was so.so.so hard and unless your knee deep in it you simply can't fathom how different and experience it is to non allergy/tongue tie/BF babies (not that any baby is 'easy'though).
Things that helped me - stopping the never ending failure that was BF and expressing and moving totally to formula. Getting some full night's sleep with husband taking over and help from my mum during the day. Upping AD's for 6months (this one particularly made a big difference within a few weeks).
It was still hard but I didn't feel like I was failing at everything.

Be extra kind to yourself when you can, it absolutely will pass just hold on tight for a few months with all the help you can muster or afford xxxx

Here to echo what other previous posters have said - a baby with CMPA, allergies, reflux and tongue tie is just the hardest thing and those who haven't been through simply don't understand. You may not be suffering with the same kind of PND - you genuinely have something to be depressed about. It's a hard journey but I promise it does get better.
Have you got meds for the mastitis?
Are you working with a lactation consultant to help with bf? There are lots of great groups on Facebook for breastfeeding with CMPA which can be a huge support.
I'm expecting my second in a week and am very worried we're about to go through the same thing again (and I know my 3yo is also going to act up when the baby arrives) but the knowledge that the hard months DO end feels helpful.
Make sure you get referred to an allergist early. Having the right medical support for your baby will make a huge difference to your mental health xxxx

I think it is quite common for babies with severe allergies and reflux not to feed very well because it causes them discomfort. But definitely get some support with it. Your HV should be able to refer you to an NHS infant feeding specialist (I've had some breastfeeding issues with DC2 and we had a video call, they also said they can do F2F if things don't improve and we need more help). There is also the National breastfeeding helpline which might be able to point you in the direction of local support. Or just google "breastfeeding support . And if you can afford it, a private lactation consultant could help a lot.

Anyway, if you decide that breastfeeding and/or expressing is just too difficult, that's ok. Your mental health is really important so if you need to give up on the breast milk and just give formula in order to ensure you are well, that would be in your children's best interest (they need their mum to be ok more than DC2 needs breast milk).

There are some things that can help with the reflux:

• Give BioGaia probiotics
• Keep baby upright during and after feeds (I'm sure you know this already). Try a sling/carrier during the day so you can at least have hands free while keeping them upright. For night-time put the crib/cot at an angle, some cribs have a tilt option but if not you could get a wedge for under the mattress (we have a wedgehog, I bought it recently and have a referral code for a discount if you're interested, just let me know and I can PM you).
• Try a dummy, the sucking and swallowing can soothe reflux babies

That's everything I can think of off the top of my head. DC1's reflux disappeared once the dairy was out of his system and we were able to stop the medication. But I know some babies still have reflux even when it's not caused by CMPA, so it might still be an issue, you'll just have to wait and see.

I hate expressing too btw so I can understand you wanting to give that up!

Glad your oldest is at nursery a few days, try not to feel guilty as you need the break and it's also good for her even if she objects!

@peonies1988

Oh and congratulations *@NameChange30* xxx

Thank you and congratulations to you too, a new baby is a wonderful thing even if it doesn't always feel like it!

I definitely have mixed feelings at this point (we are struggling too and strongly suspect CMPA) as it's just so tough.

I am trying to remind myself of reasons to be thankful, which I'm better at some days than others!

How does your oldest feel about the baby? Mine has been hard work with us but very sweet with her thankfully.

Can’t thank you enough for all of your suggestions @NameChange30 and if you could PM the discount code, I’d be so grateful. My eldest isn’t always thrilled about the baby, let’s put it that way - mainly if my husband is holding the baby as she’s a massive daddy’s girl; but at the same time does show her affection by lying next to her and holding her hand and kissing her. She also told me yesterday “she’s my best friend” so most definitely glimmers of hope.

So sorry you’re going through the whole potential CMPA trauma again. I know it sounds so selfish and naive but after a terrible time with my first who I now suspect also had CMPA, I was so hoping for that all elusive “easy baby.” My mum told me constantly “you never get two the same!” X

Hi @YukoandHiro thanks so much for your message and congratulations on the pregnancy, I so hope you have an easier time of things this time around. My GP has been surprisingly wonderful and has referred us to the allergy clinic at our local children’s hospital - I really thought I’d have a fight on my hands with the CMPA but I think the eczema on little one’s face was a giveaway. I will give the facebook groups a look too, thanks so much. X

So pleased you got the quick referral @peonies1988. I really think being a second timer makes a difference to how seriously you're taken when you report symptoms - I was constantly dismissed as an over anxious first time mum and we didn't get a diagnosis til 6 months when I introduced some formula on baby porridge while weaning and ended up with a baby whose skin was so bad it started peeling off in strips. It took another six months to heal and she still needs some steroids now and again now!
Obviously go with whatever makes life easier and you happier regarding feeding, but personally my daughter never took to a prescription formula and I found it easier to push on with bf and to eliminate foods myself. At least then I knew SHE was eating enough (I did lose a bit too much weight). Her allergies were dairy and egg and egg was the more severe - so it's definitely worth getting tests early to see what you might need to eliminate. Choosing to bf can also help them outgrow allergies earlier, according to the latest research, as you can slowly reintroduce through your own milk first. With my
Dd, I could eat diary in my diet for about a year before she could tolerate any in her own (although she's still only on baked milk now at age 3).
I bet your first did have undiagnosed cmpa. I know exactly what you mean about wishing and hoping for that mythical easy baby - I feel like I deserve an easier run of it this time and friends keep saying the same, that no two children are similar. But obviously I have dark fears that it will be even worse, with far more allergies and isolate and manage. I've got gestational diabetes so I've been on a low carb/zero sugar diet for 20 weeks with this pregnancy. Really really don't want to have to think about what I'm eating all the time while also dealing with a newborn!
Good luck. Make sure you use the Facebook forums for support. I think I would have cracked up without them. Xxx

"I know it sounds so selfish and naive but after a terrible time with my first who I now suspect also had CMPA, I was so hoping for that all elusive “easy baby.” "

It doesn't sound selfish or naive at all. I felt the same and was hoping for an "easy baby" too, and it seems unfair to have issues again

There is a silver lining when you have similar problems second time around; you know the signs to look out for, you feel more confident asking the GP and others for help, and you (hopefully) know what helps or at least what helped first time around!

We are struggling with DC2 but I went dairy free very early on and I'm really hoping that does the trick. She had actually improved until we stupidly gave her a bit of expressed milk that I'd expressed about 2 weeks before, ie before the dairy was out of my system

@NameChange30 We should all stay in touch on here... I'm being induced a week on Monday and do realistically expect the same huge struggle. I'm trying to be zen about it and remember that, as you said, I know what to do and where to get help this time, so I shouldn't feel so powerless and out of my depth. But dealing with it on top of a difficult toddler just seems unfair.
Taking a deep breath.....

I would love to stay in touch too @NameChange30 @YukoandHiro. Waking up in the night and reading your messages really did make me feel less alone so thank you so much. xxx

Oh @NameChange30 I’m sorry - how long will it take to be removed from her system? Also, do you know how long it takes for the dairy to leave my system? I’m so sorry this has happened to you twice too - maybe we’re in for easy teenagers?! We can hope! xxx

@YukoandHiro I can’t believe it took your baby being as poorly as that to be listened. Poor you and your poor little one. I think you’re right about being listened to more when it’s not your first. I’ve been asked a few times “first baby?” And when I say no it’s obvious they take me more seriously. So sorry to hear you’ve got GD and I’m keeping absolutely everything crossed that your new little one will be allergy free! ♥️♥️♥️

Sounds really really tough OP.
If you were admitted to a mother and baby unit after the birth of your first baby, then I would expect that your GP and HVs should be keeping a really close eye on you now. Are you in regular touch with them? If you are feeling the same kind of way as last time, please do get some proper professional support- for you not just the baby. When is your next GP appointment? Don't hold back from explaining how tough it is.
I have been there and it DOES get better, but it takes longer if you don't get the professional support you need when the wheels start to come off.

Thanks @peonies1988 - I'll keep you updated!

Thank you so much @domesticslattern - yes I’m under the peri natal mental health team and we have discussed readmission to the MBU but I was really hoping to avoid it for sake of my toddler mainly, though if it gets to that point, I would of course choose my safety over anything else xxx

[quote YukoandHiro]@NameChange30 We should all stay in touch on here... I'm being induced a week on Monday and do realistically expect the same huge struggle. I'm trying to be zen about it and remember that, as you said, I know what to do and where to get help this time, so I shouldn't feel so powerless and out of my depth. But dealing with it on top of a difficult toddler just seems unfair.
Taking a deep breath.....[/quote]
Best of luck with your induction. Sorry you've had GD to deal with on top of everything else. Fingers crossed your baby won't have CMPA! But on the up side, even if you have to cut out dairy, at least you'll be able to eat sugar again 😋