4 year old dinner time battles

[Alwaysundecided]

Hi all,
We are at our wits end with our 4 year-old at dinner time. He has always been difficult at eating but now it's causing huge rows between him and DH and I want to change our approach. As soon as he is told it's dinner time the strop begins 'oh no I hate dinner' etc etc, along with moody teenager face and sigh.

We currently all eat together and he eats what we eat. We do make sure the food we are giving him is things he likes so he isn't being forced to eat things he hates.
He sometimes takes an hour and a half to eat his dinner. At the moment my DH uses the step so if he refuses to eat it he goes on the step repeatedly until he eats, but this can cause huge tantrums.
By the way we aren't cruel or unrealistic, if he doesn't finish his whole plate that's fine but we like him to at least eat most of his dinner, especially the healthiest parts like veggies etc to get a balanced diet.
When I look elsewhere on Mumsnet everyone says just serve dinner and if he doesn't eat it put it in the bin, but then he won't eat a healthy diet. I feel really strongly about the importance of a healthy diet as I refused a lot of food when young and I was really anaemic and skinny. My mum gave up with me in the end as the battles were too much but I happily didn't eat and it was a constant worry for her.
He does actually like vegetables too, as sometimes he happily gobbles them down so it's not a case of hating the food.

Also if he doesn't eat his dinner he doesn't get dessert so if we threw his dinner in the bin it would cause a huge tantrum anyway as he wouldn't get dessert.
What would you do!? We have a lovely relationship with DS and he is generally well behaved, but he has never cared about meals, and it's really putting a strain on DH who does most of the cooking and I hate watching the battles erupt. Help Mumsnet.

I've always done buffet style meals. A little bit of everything. Lots of colour and textures. Dessert is becoming the price and not part of a meal. You are also fighting an unequal battle that your son it's always going to win.
Clearly he isn't hungry at dinner time.
I'm still giving our son now 14 small meals buffet style. He finds big meals intimidating. He is 5'10 and 50 kilos very slim but healthy.
Get a plate that have divisions and offer him variety. See what happens. Stop fighting with him or things will get worse.

Same as thornhill above I was coming back on to type, try buffet style teas, anything can be made buffet style. My DS loves it when we put out a Canadian tea.. we have family in Canada and at most mealtimes/dinners everything is placed into serving dishes and people free to grab what they want... DS loves a tea like this too as he doesn't seem overfaced no kidding he will always head for the cucumber and cherry toms first!!

@Alwaysundecided

I do agree that there shouldn't be any yelling. I will tell DH to stop. He is a lovely dad though and he will take note. He only usually yells because it starts off calm and then DS will call him a name or something and he gets annoyed. He rarely yells to be honest but you're right it should stop completely.

He gets annoyed with your 4yr old calling him a poopyhead? A stupidface? names and so he shouts? Does he have temper issues generally? Does he shout a lot? If your DS is feeling intimidated in general that could really be feeding into the control issues with food.

It’s definitely not too late to stop the dessert after dinner.

Is he tired? I’d do dessert after lunch and make dinner a light affair with no pressure. Get the veggies and fruit in him during the day and the evening Can be relaxed.

@Fatted my mum didn't bother with battles but I ate terribly looking back. I would just fill up on snacks in the day and happily not eat dinner. I was a waif and anaemic by age 14.
My mum said she didn't know how to handle me as she didn't want arguments but I sometimes think they were too lenient with me.
If she doesn't want to to to bed early fine (except I fell asleep every morning on the school bus)
If she won't eat dinner fine (except I lived off bread and snacks and was aneamic and underweight). They were amazing loving parents by the way.
I do agree about the timer thing. From now on we will have a timer and only have healthy desserts (fruit/yoghurt). Once the timer is up (maybe 45 minutes is realistic) he can have his dessert but if he hasn't eaten then fine. I'll see how that goes for a while.
If it doesn't work and he isn't eating enough I think I'll try the reward chart thing.
I'll report back!
Thanks for all the advice.

@Bitchinkitchen please don't try to make my DH out to have 'temper issues' or be some kind of abuser. That is so very Mumsnet.
He just gets annoyed and frustrated when after an hour and a half of pushing back on his chair, messing about, he then tells DH he is a baby or that he is going to eat his head or put him in the oven.
We do actually have a sense of humour and a nice relationship with our son but night after night this can get frustrating and aspects of parenting can be difficult. None of us are perfect, hence starting this thread for advice.

I’m just coming on here to say that we DID have battles in my childhood. Mum made us all eat what was on our plate. No punishments as such but we just all sat at the table until everyone had finished. That could take ages as my brother didn’t really like chewing meat. He loves it now, we all eat everything, are not fussy and do not have any food issues. None of us are overweight, none of us have allergies, none of us ended up with a disturbed relationship with food. In fact we all love our food and eat a healthy variety of food without being into dieting. I know it’s only anecdotal but I just don’t buy the theory that having rules around food leads to eating problems. In that case there would be few fussy eaters nowadays but all I can see when I take students away on school trips is some really fussy ungrateful children. Some of those children will have parents that try to get their kids to eat well but it hasn’t worked yet and some will have parents who just let their kids turn their nose up at everything and choose a really limited diet. Nothing to do with rules around food IMHO.

@Lady1576 that's an interesting point and I am inclined to agree for the most part but I know it's not the popular view these days.
@poppythetroll thanks so much that is great advice.

You take the view of"sit there and eat it"... But it clearly isn't working for your child

An hour and a half at the table! That is just cruel. Ten minutes, each what you want, have a chat, get down.

@OverTheRainbow88 I love those trays! He would love them too.
Just out of interest if you're having something like spag bol or a pasta dish, what would you put in the other sections?

@Fairybio it's not cruel as I say so many times 'you must be finished I'll take it away' but then he says he's not finished.

And I'm big on table manners, no TV, the whole family eating together, no eating in the sitting room. As a friend said, I run a tight ship.

[quote Alwaysundecided]@Bitchinkitchen please don't try to make my DH out to have 'temper issues' or be some kind of abuser. That is so very Mumsnet.
He just gets annoyed and frustrated when after an hour and a half of pushing back on his chair, messing about, he then tells DH he is a baby or that he is going to eat his head or put him in the oven.
We do actually have a sense of humour and a nice relationship with our son but night after night this can get frustrating and aspects of parenting can be difficult. None of us are perfect, hence starting this thread for advice.[/quote]
... goodness me, you fight with him for 90+ minutes every day just to get him to eat a piece of broccoli??

Blimey. I'm glad you've seen how bananas this is! :)

[quote Alwaysundecided]@Fairybio it's not cruel as I say so many times 'you must be finished I'll take it away' but then he says he's not finished.[/quote]
Do the reboot if dinners as advised.

See how it goes.

Try not to fall into old habits 🤞

@00100001 I'm inclined to agree that having rules at the dinner table won't cause life long eating disorders and issues with food is what I meant.
I realise our current approach is failing miserably

They also do a train tray if he’s into trains!

So today he had spag and pesto in the main bit, tuna in one bit, green beans and chopped tomatos! The only issue is my son always expects 4 things and if I leave one empty he questions it... if I’m really stuck I put a lump of cheddar cheese in it 🤪!

Sometimes if he’s having fruit for pudding I put that in a section and he can choose when to eat it!!- rock and roll!!!

@00100001 funnily enough broccolli is usually the easiest as it's green and will turn him into hulk. So 60 minutes for that

What @Biscusting said. If you're eating together, do you eat at your supper time or a more child friendly early time? I think your teatime has become too much of a Thing for your son (and your dh), and it's maybe an idea to give each some space for a bit. Can you make your son a kid friendly tea at 4.30, sit with him, chat etc while he eats. You guys can have supper later. Take the pressure off your boy a little; they do not respond well to parents' frustration around food.

I say all this as someone who had great problems with ds1 from weaning to aged 5, when I finally learnt to bite my tongue and let him get on with it. He simply has a small appetite but I was so worried and stressed for him. Mealtimes are totally fine now.

@Biscusting there's a chance he is tired yes. We usually eat around 6. He used to eat his dinner early watching tele but we wanted to get him eating with us to have a nice family dinner
I like the idea of a bigger lunch but I'll need to retrain my brain as we often just have a sandwich out and about or toast and fruit etc, something quick and easy.

@Neighneigh early dinners could work well actually. Especially as our youngest is weaning soon (5 months old) so they could eat together. We stopped that because he was eating alone and it felt like a big performance.

You say you’re not forcing food down his throat but that’s effectively what you’re doing if you’re making him sit there for 90 minutes and threatening the naughty step.

Just step away from the battle, I would be wary of going down the reward chart route.

Ok so been discussing with DH. With the timer thing we are concerned that when the timer is up, then what?
If we say 'thats it now' he is likely to react and say he isn't finished and then it's another argument. He actually doesn't want to leave his dinner this is the problem.
I'm thinking we just casually put our plates away at that point and leave his on the table?! If he eats it after then fine but we won't make any more mention of it.
He hates the thought of food going in the bin so I don't want to do that.
We can't work out whether he plays up because he isn't hungry or because he actually likes an argument. I do think he likes annoying DH. He definitely isn't intimidated by him!
I just explained to DH that we need to take the drama out of dinner and he said he's on board with that.

My 5 year old eats his dinner before us in the week as DH gets home quite late but we eat together at weekends and if we are on leave. He was absolutely horrendous when he was younger and we both used to end up crying. He's never been that interested in food and still isn't really. You can offer him.a 99 flake ice cream but if he does t feel.like it he will just say no thank you! I stopped fighting him.and just gave him things I knew he liked. Gradually I introduced new things. He has been at school for a year now and has decided he likes peas, sweetcorn and yellow pepper. He will even eat a cherry tomato with skin on now and jacket potato skin! And he is willing to try new things.He dieabr gave to eat everything on his plate and he is always offered pudding- fruit once a day and treat pudding such as helly for the other meal. It will probably get better but try not to get angry with him- if he knows he will get out on the step then he will be anxious even before he starts dinner who h would make me lose my appetite!

do it in conjunction with explaining to DS that dinner times are going to change, and that he can have as much of his dinner as he wants, and then as much of his dessert. Because now dessert will only ever be fruit/yoghurt/cheese/whatever.

Make sure his portions are smaller for now.

If he only eats three peas, and a bite of chicken and then 4 strawberries.... then that's his dinner.

If he's hungry later, offer him the rest of his chicken (if it's a meal that will keep/reheat) or toast.

Don;t get drawn into HOW MUCH he's eating just yet. Get meal times calm again. then worry about the amount later if he is always hungry an hour later. You can offer him seconds once he realises he won't get in trouble for not eating everything on the plate. so he might actually want another spoon of rice, knwing that if he only manages half of it, he won;t get in touble.