4 year old dinner time battles

[Alwaysundecided]

Hi all,
We are at our wits end with our 4 year-old at dinner time. He has always been difficult at eating but now it's causing huge rows between him and DH and I want to change our approach. As soon as he is told it's dinner time the strop begins 'oh no I hate dinner' etc etc, along with moody teenager face and sigh.

We currently all eat together and he eats what we eat. We do make sure the food we are giving him is things he likes so he isn't being forced to eat things he hates.
He sometimes takes an hour and a half to eat his dinner. At the moment my DH uses the step so if he refuses to eat it he goes on the step repeatedly until he eats, but this can cause huge tantrums.
By the way we aren't cruel or unrealistic, if he doesn't finish his whole plate that's fine but we like him to at least eat most of his dinner, especially the healthiest parts like veggies etc to get a balanced diet.
When I look elsewhere on Mumsnet everyone says just serve dinner and if he doesn't eat it put it in the bin, but then he won't eat a healthy diet. I feel really strongly about the importance of a healthy diet as I refused a lot of food when young and I was really anaemic and skinny. My mum gave up with me in the end as the battles were too much but I happily didn't eat and it was a constant worry for her.
He does actually like vegetables too, as sometimes he happily gobbles them down so it's not a case of hating the food.

Also if he doesn't eat his dinner he doesn't get dessert so if we threw his dinner in the bin it would cause a huge tantrum anyway as he wouldn't get dessert.
What would you do!? We have a lovely relationship with DS and he is generally well behaved, but he has never cared about meals, and it's really putting a strain on DH who does most of the cooking and I hate watching the battles erupt. Help Mumsnet.

I would set a time limit. 15 mins max. After that point the energy you are spending forcing one more bite massively outweighs any benefit from that. Timer goes off, dinner is done.

You can serve dessert sometimes, but not always. Don't make it contingent on eating his main. If you had planned to serve as part of his intake for that day, serve it, even if he hasn't eaten anything else. If it wasn't on the menu, don't.

Reward systems should be renamed 'bribery systems' 😁

Childcare teacher told me that smaller portions can be helpful-less intimidating and so more likely to eat.Might work.

We give pudding regardless of what dd eats as I don’t want food to be seen as a reward, or encourage her to eat more than she wants/needs. Pudding is usually yoghurt or fruit so not too bad.

About once a week or 10 days we have a pudding like crumble or cheesecake or something but don’t tend to tell her until it’s time, it’s just a nice surprise.

We don’t punish for not eating, we’ll either save it for later or if it can’t be reheated then we’ll offer something like toast if she’s hungry later.

Don't make food a battle. Only serve what you would be happy for him to eat, and have a planned activity (which he loves) at a set time (which happens to be 30mins after the start of food). He eats what he wants (from what you've offered and are therefore happy with) and then you move on the activity. That's a positive way of stopping him dragging it out.
Desert should either be healthy fruit or something which he can have even if he doesn't eat his main or not offered at all. Not a bribe.
Even if you are lenient about most things, punishing over food will associate food with stress and punishment and will lead to an unhealthy relationship with food later.
If he eats less on somedays or doesn't eat, that's fine. You decide what to offer, he decides what goes in.

I’d really recommend following kids eat in colour on Instagram.
You need to stop making dinner a battle ground.
Do not comment on what he eats at all, just let him get on with it. When he’s finished he gets pudding if you’ve planned it for that meal. Food is not a reward/punishment.

I don't think we will give him an eating disorder. We only offer dinner he likes. I would never sit there and force food down his neck that he hates. We often ask him what he wants for dinner and he still won't eat it, which is why DH gets so frustrated.

My motto has always been - Have as much as you want and then stop. Visiting children were told the same thing. Pudding always offered.

You are setting yourself up for misery, failure, and possibly an eating disorder. Food doesn't have to be about control.

You’re emphasising you want him to eat healthily but then you have pudding at every dinner time? I would cut pudding altogether as I don’t think it’s healthy to have pudding every dinner. Alternatively if your puddings are fairly healthy just serve them at the same time as dinner to remove the bribing element. Then your son can sit for as long as he needs/wants to

It's a control thing. At that age they are completely hostage to their parents and food is the only thing they can control. So they do.

Try offering him more choice about non-food things. And don't let his dad yell at him! You should never shout at a child. Or anyone.

Don’t bribe or force to eat.

I have paper plates with our meals drawn on, each day I pick two plates that are going to use the same ingredients and my son (5) gets to pick what we’re having, apart from Thursday when my boyfriend chooses and Friday when I choose. He picks at breakfast, if he changes his mind during the day its tough look, we’re having the original choice.

If he doesn’t eat his dinner, thats fine, just scrapes it into the bin, pops his plate in the dishwasher and carries on playing etc. If he is then hungry I give him something plain and a bit boring, like a roti or pitta with humus.

By punishing at meal times you are teaching him that meal times are a negative and unpleasant experience, that means instead of his brain thinking “i’m hungry and want to eat dinner” his brain is likely to focus on the stress surrounding dinner time.

He came to me on a limited diet (he would eat five things, the nearest to veg was baked beans), but as he hadn’t been feed enough he would eat those things until he was sick. I have never used pressure, bribes, force, punishment etc around eating no matter how annoying it sometimes is. Now as a five year old he will generally eat his meals without a great deal of fuss and is finally starting to realise when he feels full and will now fairly regularly leave some of his dinner.

I think we will take dessert out of the equation for a while like most of you have said. I'll just say from now on dessert is yoghurt or fruit for us all and see how that goes.
We don't give huge unhealthy desserts anyway but he usually gets a small treat (we all do).

Please don't make him finish his plate to get a reward. That's not good either.

I would also allow (decent quality) snacks, but on a schedule. So 3 meals and 2 snacks. Arse about with any of them and you don't get anything til next time, but then you can say, "There's no more for now but lunch is at 12.30" so they know how long they need to feel hungry for

I would go with smaller portions, less intimidating. I put 10 green beans on my 4 year olds tray today and he then all, yesterday I pilled them on ate none!

We use these trays...

www.amazon.co.uk/Dinosaur-Melamine-Plastic-Childrens-Sections/dp/B07GXKW1B7/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=kids+food+tray&tag=mumsnetforu03-21&qid=1596220022&sr=8-3

He has to eat something from each section, and makes me think about having 4 diff foods per dinner.

I sometimes let him eat his dinner in front of the tv (shock horror) he’ll eat his way through anything when distracted.

My boy loves running and I tell him ohhh ... (whatever food I want him to eat) makes people run very fast... for now he buys it!

Sorry I'm struggling to keep up with posts!
We do eat really healthy as a family but we all have one treat a day after dinner. Only a small portion but I think it's fine in moderation.
Like I often have a few cubes or chocolate or a small scoop of ice cream. I don't mean we give him a huge slice of cake after dinner or anything.

.... But you will give him a bad relationship with food....You're forcing him to eat food he doesn't want to eat, by punishing him if he doesn't...

Imagine that you were sitting at dinner, ate until you were full, and your DH decided you hadn't eaten enough and said e "you need to eat more!!" And you say 'ive had enough' and he insists, starts shouting at you, so you get scared and force a bit more down... And ask if that's enough? DH says no, eat more and starts shouting at you. So you get upset and maybe shout back, bit because he's bigger and stronger than you, you dutifully sit there eating.

Then you start to dread mealtimes...

OP, you've said yourself that you had the same issues as your DS when you were little. Did all of the battles with your own parents actually make you eat any more or any better?

Stop battling. It's just reinforcing negative feelings for everyone around meal times. Put out a meal. Set a timer for 30 minutes of 45 minutes if you think he needs longer. After that, dinner is done. If he eats it, he eats it. If not, it goes in the bin. I would give pudding regardless. Food should not be used as a reward or punishment. If you want you can make pudding something like yogurt and fruit.

My youngest is and has always been the same. He is the child who will happily let himself starve. We did the timer thing and it helped relieve all of the tension around meal times. I do let him have snacks because IME it makes no difference to how much he eats at meal times. He seems to prefer to graze on little and often. He was the same as a baby though and would have a small feed every couple of hours.

Thanks @SimonJT that is really helpful

I suggest that you buy a copy of 'My child won't eat' and start following kidfriendly.meals on Instagram. Punishing for eating/rewarding for eating implies the meal is a chore rather than a pleasure. You are turning mealtimes into something ridiculously stressful for all of you.

I agree with everyone; no persuading or cajoling. Food on the table , no discussion of whether or not he likes it , talk about other subjects. When he has' finished' on to pudding and then meal over I tend not to give snacks but would probably give a drink of milf and some weetabix or something if he was really hungry before bed. Children learn by observation more than being told what to do. He will observe what is expected of him and conform after a while . Don't get bogged down in nutrition in the short term.

I would just give him dinner and if he doesn’t eat it then move on; if the dinner is healthy and he eats some of it then he’s getting the nutrients. If all he does is eat the carbs then try reducing those and tell him he can have more when he’s eaten some of the other.
I would try and change dinner up a bit to stop it being a battle ground; maybe put the food in serving dishes for him to to serve himself and the deal is that he eats what he puts on his plate. I know it’s a bit of a faff but I think you need a way to break up the habit that has been gotten into.
Also like someone else said make pudding something healthy like fruit or yoghurt so even if he doesn’t eat his dinner then he’s still getting something good.

I do agree that there shouldn't be any yelling. I will tell DH to stop. He is a lovely dad though and he will take note. He only usually yells because it starts off calm and then DS will call him a name or something and he gets annoyed.
He rarely yells to be honest but you're right it should stop completely.

Mine had to have 'a good try' of everything, i.e. some had to go into their mouth and be swallowed, not just seen/licked/sniffed and rejected.

Well, it's incredibly unlikely that DS is calling him a name out if the blue...what happens before that point?

If it's genuinely out of the blue, then ignore it, don't give him a reaction.

My DS is very similar, he is 3 and half. We have similar battles, sometimes refuses to eat, sometimes finishes the plate!!

Couple of little things that I have found work (just to note I work full time and he goes to nursery 3 days a week, during lockdown I was at home with him working full time and no nursery and that was when the battles were worse!! I appreciate not everyone is the same boat but here's just what I have found works)

At nursery DS eats his main meal at lunchtime and then a snack/picnic tea, I mirrored that during lockdown and found he was eating so much better, so I would prepare a healthy tea the night before which we would eat for tea and he would be given it at lunchtime the next day and he happily ate it. Then just sandwiches/healthy snacks at teatime when he is more tired/ratty from the day and he eats it as his leisure. Still works with my DD, so although she is 8 and a better eater, sometimes she has after school classes or doesn't feel like eating a big meal so the rule is ... hot meal at lunchtime a healthy snacky tea! It helps because we can see on the school app what she has chosen for lunch!!

Also; get him involved with the cooking... my DS loves helping to make meatballs, fish fingers, anything where he can get his hands grubby; he loves then sitting at the table and beaming to everyone that he was the chef!!!

I do understand how you feel though we have tried it all and are now slowly coming through the other side but we still have bad days were I wish he would just eat something!!