can we afford to have a 2nd child in London?

[bubblebee40]

DH and I were discussing the idea of having another child last night and turns out he thinks we really can't afford it. We already have a two-year-old DD and had assumed we'd have another, but now DH is adament that we just dont have the money. Tried to do the sums and I do see his point but at the same time also a bit sad for DD as I think that she would have to have a sibling, so for example - our current take home is 6k per month and mortgage plus nursery come to 3.2k. Both of us work full time in jobs where you cant go p/t and our salaries wont go up by much in the next few years, plus it would mean having to leave our current two-bed flat and move out of the area.

Is having another child really expensive or is DH being unreasonable? Our friends have all either moved out of London when the kids came along or earn enough to put theirs through prep school. Does it get 'cheaper' once they get a little bit older?

If you want something then you find a way. Childcare costs probably 1/2 when you get the 30 hours come through. Are you not part of the tax free childcare account whereby the government tops up by 20% whatever you put in and they pay the nursery direct so thats worth a whopping £350 a month so your nursery fee in reality should be more like £1.4k??

I'd say wait until Your first starts school but at age 40 I wouldn't hang about either.....

yes i dont think we really have time to hang around. it took us four years for me to get pregnant the first time so it's really now or never hence our chat.

@bubblebee40

I'm in the middle of IVF for our second and what we've decided to do is take out a loan over say 5-10 years and use that to pay for childcare - so spreading 2 years childcare (assuming you have 12 months maternity leave) until the 30 hours kicks in age 3 over a much longer time period and it then all seems much more financially manageable

Yes I don't think having 2 children is the be all and end all either - I only meant to say that it's not just about another baby or even small child but another person in your life (it was me that used the elderly care example). I personally wouldn't consider the monetary issue alone as a decision making factor in whether to have another kid or not.

How would you save on nursery fees by moving out of London? Are they significantly less expensive elsewhere?

@Thisismytimetoshine

Yeah London is notorious for childminder and nursery costs. As a comparison I paid £750 per month FULL TIME for a childminder

Oh, I see.

wow...ok that is a lot cheaper. a full time nursery here is 2k so am already looking after DD one day a week and working on saturday to make up the time

OP we live in zone 3 east London and you can get 3 bed terraced houses here for under £500k, plus 4 days a week in an outstanding nursery is c1000/month. We did a nanny share with another family and that came in at £1500/month for 4 days and our son got much more individual attention than he would have done at a nursery for less than you’re paying. You don’t have to continue sending your eldest to nursery when you have a second, so will save on childcare for those months, and then the costs drop once they’re 3 anyway. It’s perfectly doable on your salaries.

£2.6k per month is what many single parent families manage on... with more than one child.

Share a room? Also is there really no chance of pay going up?

Sorry to say but that's why most people leave London. :/

Depends on the lifestyle you want to live and whether you want to send your kids to private school.

It's not practical in a flat. You need to do what your friends have done and move further out.

@pinktaxi oh idk, I own a flat in London zone 3 and there are many kids living in my flat development. Most are not 1 child families but it could be that their parents are single parents. Its a good school area , there are 4 outstanding primary schools within 0.5 miles.

i think DH is concerned about whether it will get a lot tougher. No one is saying that we have less money than a single parent, but most single parents would probably also say that its not great or at least my close friends who are single parents are well aware they dont have enough money but also dont have a choice - we do.

I would definitely have a 2nd and do it now. Rather than you potentially paying 2 sets of nursery fees for 2 children could you not go part time at all? Legally your work would have to let you reduce your working hours surely having 2 small children. It may work out cheaper than 2 sets of nursery fees full time.

The question we were sort of debating is whether having two kids is twice as expensive as one cos we are already paying out a lot on just the one.....

@Shinebright72

Her employer doesn't have to legally let her reduce her hours at all.......she can only REQUEST flexible working or reduced hours. They DONT have to grant it.

@Shinebright72 - in my job p/t doesn't really work...i wish it did but in practice it doesnt. i might be able to 'negotiate' doing less but I will still be assessed the same as everyone else so effectively its just like taking a pay cut.

but yes i guess the point is more kid of thereafter - i get that two sets of nursery fees/nanny share is basically around 3k but does it get cheaper thereafter which we obviously could do. but alot of the other PP have already answered that it sort of does.

I think that DH is annoyed that we didnt think about finances before having DD - i just assumed we'd be ok, but is not happy to do the same this time

@bubblebee40 I think it really is about how much you and your DH want it.

For me, I don't think the extra money is worth it for a sibling that may or may not be a good playmate. I also don't want to leave north London where my support network is. I mean, I live 8 time zones away from my sister and speak once a year so I sincerely hope my mother had her because she wanted her, not for a life long companion!

And the thing is even if you move out of London, its not like it magically becomes easier even if the numbers become smaller. There are other problems- getting back in time if there are rail delays. I would rather get back in 40 minutes to kiss my child and give her a bath, rather than be sweating on a thameslink train for 1.5 hours or freezing on a train platform staring at the departures board (please join a commuters facebook group before you move, hitchin rail commuters group scared me off Hitchin for life). Also the prices in the home counties have risen so much that many of them have actually reached parity with London i.e Amersham, St Albans, Guildford. Meanwhile London house prices continue to stagnate and drop. And those are the ones with the good connections , shops and nice atmosphere.

@bubblebee40

It does "sort of" get cheaper - we've gone from paying £800 a month for childcare to £350 from September for before and after school care.

I don't think anyone really looks into the cost BEFORE having a baby - I know were surprised at nursery costs when we started looking so swapped to a childminder

Looking at your outgoings you say you take home £6k a month and £3.2k a month is mortgage and nursery - what on earth do you send the other £2.8k a MONTH on???

At the height of our childcare costs we had £1k a month to live on for the 3 of us and we had to pay food and travel costs out of that

I guess what I'm saying is if another baby is something you REALLY wanted you'd be making every sacrifice you could without question

[quote ivfgottostaypositive]@Shinebright72

Her employer doesn't have to legally let her reduce her hours at all.......she can only REQUEST flexible working or reduced hours. They DONT have to grant it. [/quote]
I went back on a flex I contact after MAT leave. When I said “have to”. If a company declines they would have to state why you are unable to reduce from full to part time.
Your are right though.

You could probably hire a nanny when second baby comes along, who could also do wraparound care for your older child (either around the 30 hours funding or around school) for as much as you’re paying for nursery...

OP you can afford another child. Yes 2 Kids are more expensive than 1 but you have ample money especially once your kids are out of the nursery stage.