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child's friend hit me - WWYD

69 replies

msflibble · 29/05/2020 12:48

Background: at my children's daycare are 2 siblings, a girl and boy. The family also lives in the same housing complex as us, with 3 shared courtyards. The little girl is 2 and a half, delightful, well-behaved for a toddler, and best buddies with my DS who is 3. The boy is 4, can be likeable and is obviously sensitive but uncommunicative. He is also naughty, defiant and pushes boundaries a lot. My DD is 5 and although she can sometimes play with him, she doesn't like him. He hits sometimes and takes toys without asking. We are good friends with the parents who are lovely people that we get on with well.

Since before lockdown (not during it) and now that it has eased, we've been doing a sort of childcare tandem with this family - we're in Germany, where things have been greatly relaxed recently, and our kids are back at the daycare with them 2 days a week anyway. We take turns to watch the kids at the sandpit, or take them to a playground or on bike rides. Sometimes they come to the house as well. The other afternoon they asked us to look after the boy but not the girl and right from the beginning I could see he was on the warpath. He was being deliberately annoying, screaming loudly during a game with my son, even after we told him to stop. Then he and my son found some badminton racquets outside that belonged to other children and refused to give them back. I had to physically take one from him after he ignored my repeated calm requests to return them, at which point he hit me. This is always a red line for me; I tend to keep my cool nearly all the time with children, but when they hit me I lose it. I hissed a stern reprimand at him and he ran off.

I came to him at the sandpit and took a gentler tone, explaining that if he couldn't behave himself he could no longer visit us. We called his mother and asked her to pick him up. After this he was even more defiant; he was trying to break light fittings outside, he deliberately took my son's favourite toy away and pushed my son over when he came to take it back, he was throwing sand, putting sand all over his own head, and finally he started throwing gravel. When I told him to stop he ignored me and I did lose it again I'm afraid. He was looking me in the eye whilst doing all of these things, it was unbelievably maddening. I told him I was seriously angry and that that was it, he couldn't visit us anymore. I still feel like I meant it. I don't want to look after a child who is deliberately defiant, who treats our authority with contempt, who hits me and who upsets my own kids. But.. his little sister is DS's best friend, we love her, and we love the parents and don't want sourness between us.

What do I do? Did I overreact? How does one handle this behaviour in someone else's child? Or is it better to just say to the parents that we cannot look after him if he won't listen to us?

OP posts:
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Hazelnutlatteplease · 29/05/2020 12:51

Do the parents know he has SN? Have they warned you?

msflibble · 29/05/2020 12:55

If you mean, are they aware that he is sensitive but doesn't communicate, then yes, very much so. I've talked to his mother a lot about the whole thing.

The awkward thing is that I can see how the parental dynamics might be affecting his behaviour but I just don't want to bring it up with them. I feel they have to see a specialist to work it out themselves. If I say something, it could fuck up our relationship, and we see these people nearly every day. I just can't risk it.

He's alienated other children before - his 2 male best friends at the kita don't invite him over anymore because he hits.

OP posts:
penguinsbegin · 29/05/2020 13:00

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Veterinari · 29/05/2020 13:10

Where does OP say the boy has been diagnosed with any SN??

Ooo think you did the right thing. You have to protect your family and if he's in your care you need him to listen to you for his own safety too.

I would have a chat with the parents and emphasise that you love seeing them and their DD but find their DS too much to deal with.

thefuriousfuggler · 29/05/2020 13:20

@Hazelnutlatteplease

Do the parents know he has SN? Have they warned you?
The OP has at no point mentioned that the child has special needs.
penguinsbegin · 29/05/2020 13:22

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msflibble · 29/05/2020 13:26

@penguinsbegin you're on the right track. this is my hunch - he has no consistency whatsoever.

His dad is very much of the authoritarian style. He has a lot of rules, some of which seem unnecessary to me, and he goes from 0-60 to enforce them, often with a lot of shouting. We've talked about it; he confesses he doesn't want to parent this way, but this is how his father was and he can't seem to do it any other way.

The mother is the opposite. She is far too permissive. She almost seems to space out and enter a trance when he is behaving incredibly badly, just disassociating when he needs her to draw boundaries the most. Sometimes she disciplines for minor things, but only about 50% of the time, and she is extremely gentle when doing so. My suspicion is that this is partly to compensate for the father's overzealous disciplinarian streak.

What this means for the boy, I think, is that he is totally confused. His dad enforces illogical rules that seem arbitrary whilst his mother doesn't even tell him off for major infractions. As a result, he thinks that all rules must be bullshit, he doesn't have faith in parental/adult authority, and he therefore doesn't have to listen to me when I tell him not to do something.

How to raise this with his mother and father though? At some point they have to see a specialist, don't they? Is it my duty to tell them what I can plainly see, or is it best to let them discover it themselves? My instinct tells me to aim for the latter.

OP posts:
Whitegrenache · 29/05/2020 13:27

I don't get it. He is 2 and perfectly normal behaviour as I understand it. My godson aged 2 is exactly the same! If he goes to hit me I say no in a stern voice and move on. He then has a tantrum he gets ignored

I wouldn't ring the parents and demand he goes home (we are self isolating together as 2 families as we are very rural and have very close relationships)

I can see he may irritate your child but then make sure they get some peace from him!

Whitegrenache · 29/05/2020 13:28

Oops just seen he is 4 sorry! Still same advice applies - tell him off and explain your boundaries

msflibble · 29/05/2020 13:28

No, he isn't 2, he's 4 - not far off from 5 actually! Sorry if the original post wasn't clear.

OP posts:
missyB1 · 29/05/2020 13:28

You need to speak to his parents about how he behaved when they left him with you. Ask them how they manage that behaviour. It’s very tricky we have friends with a child that age who can be very defiant.

thefuriousfuggler · 29/05/2020 13:29

I don't get it. He is 2

No, he is 4.

missyB1 · 29/05/2020 13:31

Just read your last post. Yes inconsistent boundaries and lazy parenting will almost certainly be contributing to his behaviour.

Windyatthebeach · 29/05/2020 13:31

White - the boy is 4...
Curious how he rang his dps to go home at 4..

WhatWouldDominicDo · 29/05/2020 13:34

What would happen if you tell the parents that you can't look after him any longer? Would the whole tandem childcare thing breakdown, and disadvantage you?

Perhaps ask the parents for their permission to discipline the child as you think appropriate when he plays up in your care?

Pipandmum · 29/05/2020 13:37

It's not your business how they deal with their child. However, you should explain to them that their sons behaviour has gotten to a point that you can not have him at your house or mind him at the playground. And stick to that. It may be inconvenient for all of you but his behaviour is intolerable. Hopefully your child can still have playdates with their daughter.

VenusTiger · 29/05/2020 13:38

Maybe you could ask the friends how they want you to discipline him in when in your care in certain circumstances, to gauge how they are doing it, and then say, you tried that but it doesn't work because of his non-communicative personality etc. to open up debate - maybe use annidotes to gently persuade a different style of discipline.

BubblesBuddy · 29/05/2020 13:39

I think he does have additional needs and, regrettably, you may well fall out with the parents over this.

Sadly DCs who display behaviour traits like this will end up with few invitations to play. Most parents simply don’t want this sort of behaviour around their own children or in their homes.

So what to do? I think you do have to speak to his parents about whether this daily relationship can continue. You cannot put their family dynamics right. This could be a very long haul to alter his behaviour and theirs. Are you honestly up for it? It’s upsetting but you will find others will withdraw from any relationship with them and you won’t be alone. Time to withdraw or accept this will continue and quite possibly for years. It’s very sad and I do hope professional intervention might help.

MynephewR · 29/05/2020 13:40

I don't get it. He is 2 and perfectly normal behaviour as I understand it.
That is not normal behaviour for a 2 year old, if my 2yo behaved like that I'd be mortified.

OP Can you just say that you find their DS a bit much so can't babysit him again? Surely they must be able to see that his behaviour would be hard work for someone else.

BubblesBuddy · 29/05/2020 13:41

I don’t think it’s all about discipline either. My cousin was like this. No discipline worked because he was simply oblivious to it. He didn’t have empathy or feelings. If this is the same, then professional advice must be sought. My relatives didn’t and my cousin spiralled out of control.

Windyatthebeach · 29/05/2020 13:50

Op said the boy is 4..

maxonebitch · 29/05/2020 13:52

Curious how he rang his dps to go home at 4..

I think you need to work on your comprehension skills, he didn't.

oohnicevase · 29/05/2020 14:02

I don't think it's obvious he has SN , my son does and does none of these things . He is a good boy because I have taught him to be so . He knows boundaries because I've taught him. He just sounds like a spirited naughty boy who has never been told off ..
please don't go round throwing the SN card when it can frankly just be shit / passive parenting!!

msflibble · 29/05/2020 14:04

I know it's not my business to talk to the parents but I really want to help them fix it. I can see he is a sweet boy underneath the hard exterior. He cuddled me once, very tightly, after a bad fall. We often read together and he would tuck himself into the crook of my arm or sit on my lap. Although he is a pain with the other kids sometimes, he often tries to make other children laugh if they are hurt or crying. He does feel empathy, and he does feel upset when he's told off. He bottles it though, I can see it.

One of the worst things is I'm upset by my own sudden feelings of antipathy towards him after this last incident. I don't want to see him or have him near me at all. I feel bad because I think he trusted me and now that's gone.

But if I do talk to them, I run the risk of offending them, and they live on my doorstep, which I've been told is not a sensible place to shit. So it's a bit of a nightmare situation. I guess I just have to be blunt and say no visiting/childcare for him anymore, and hope that is enough to get them to address things themselves.

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Spillinteas · 29/05/2020 14:04

You could be taking about my nephew. He was banned from coming to my house at 5 because he chucked dd2 wooden rocking horse through our tv in the living room.

And yes it was down to parenting and the effects adults have on children as he is fine now at 11 and his dad finally left the family home.

Keep what you think to yourself because it will not be received well at all. Parents that know their kids can be handfuls also can get very defensive because in subconsciously they feel you are attacking them

Did you not tell the parents of his behaviour at pick up? If you didn’t it’s going to make it more awkward.

The next time they ask just be honest ‘ I’m sorry but we can’t have him because he was really naughty last time and I didn’t feel in control of him’