When do I get my evenings back?

[teddy50]

We had DD two years ago, and two years later, we still don't have our evenings to ourselves. We've just about weaned her off breastfeeding to sleep, but she now requires one of us to sit with her until she's asleep.

The falling asleep process can take a long time. A really long time. I try to sneak out when I think she's asleep, but often I misjudge (and apparently I clomp when I walk - excuse me for being pregnant and a bit elephantine, husband) and she jerks awake and wails like a banshee. Then we start all over. We've tried letting her cry but she has stamina and it isn't very nice.

Anyone else in these shoes? I'd really like to get this right before we have our second in the summer! 🆘

You have two choices:

1. Wait for her to self wean from needing you to stay with her. You're looking at least another few years I would say.

1. Do some kind of sleep training.

Tbh in your shoes I'd sleep train.

Sleep. Train.

I have no answer for you at all, i’m sorry, we’re in the same boat. Only difference is we’ve not night weaned yet, we’re just in the process of it. HOW did you do it?! DH is trying to get him to sleep but he just cries and cries for me. It’s been a week and a half now and we seem to be going backwards...

We didn't sleep train and started getting a completely reliable sleep at bedtime and nights sleep with our eldest this last few months. She's nearly three. Before now she'd sleep too long in the day.

2 years.... Sleep train ffs!

Sleep train OP. Or, you'll end up like me... With an 8 year old who is a terrible sleeper, she won't spend a full night in her own bed and is terrified of her own shadow/being on her own.

My DD at 2 was falling asleep in my/DH's arms with a bottle of milk. 3 months later we were leaving her in bed awake and she put herself to sleep. We tried many times to wean her off needing us but it didn't work until she was ready.

Sleep train. It's hideous the first night, second isn't anywhere near as bad, third will be 20 mins then you're done. But you can't, and I stress really can't, give an inch otherwise you'll have to start all over again.

My 2.5 year was a brilliant sleeper until about 5 months ago, when his baby brother was 4 months old, and we’re coming out the end of it now. We used to have to stay with him holding his hand etc. Until about 9pm. One day I just said to him mummy will Ben back in a minute and went back straight away and gave him a kiss, then said the same again and left the room and went back and so fourth and he pretty much has gone back to how he was

You don’t need to sleep train. You could try gradual withdrawal. I did it. It took a few weeks and only involved a tiny bit of crying. So just tell her that you’re just popping out to the loo or something. Go and then go straight back. Then do that a few nights/week/whatever. Then say, I’m just nipping to get a drink. Take a bit longer. Go back. Make sure you go back so she knows she can trust you. Then she’ll start to feel ok lying there on her own. If she cries, go back. Try again in 10 mins. Keep it lighthearted. Now I can just kiss my daughter goodnight and leave. She’s fine. We’ll have the occasional night where she’s a bit more fussy but it’s no big deal.

How pregnant are you OP? We were in a situation like this, DD1 was 2 when I fell pregnant and used to fall asleep lying on us, then we’d slide her off. I reached a stage in pregnancy when couldn’t lie on my back, so she had to learn to fall asleep with me lying beside her. Then reached stage where I couldn’t actually fit in her bed so she had to do it with me sitting at end of bed. Then when baby came and needed a lot, eventually she had to go to sleep herself with no one there, and has done ever since. A long, protracted accidental sleep training borne out of necessity. Needless to say DD2 was sleep trained using gradual retreat method and went to sleep herself by 10 months!

If you want your evenings back, you need to change how you do it. Honestly, you think your darling first needs things a certain way and won’t accept otherwise. The truth is they look to us to tell them how things will be, and spending months trapped beside her when you could be downstairs eating chocolate, is how it will be if you don’t teach her otherwise. I say this as the most soft hearted, formerly anti sleep training mum ever. It’s hard work for a wee while, but really kids do accept what you teach them about how things are done.

Gradual withdrawal is a type of sleep training Sandy.

Thanks to everyone who's saying sleep train. We've done sleep training quite a few times, so it's not that we're averse to it philosophically. Crying isn't nice, but I can manage if we get results. But I honestly think some children are open to sleep training and some less so, and DD has really struggled. The times when we've observed a marked improvement in her sleep have been unrelated to training - it's always when she has decided herself it's time.

But still, I'd love for people to describe to me how you've sleep trained a toddler please. The last time we sleep trained she was around one and a bit I think. FYI she's still in a cot but we'll be moving her to a bed soon.

@emvy I noticed she was starting to be less interested (but not NOT interested) in boob before sleep (she used to start talking about it the minute she got out of the bath), so a few days ago just said no you're a big girl now, no boob, but mummy will sit with you for a bit. She wasn't happy and cried, but I just ignored and kept reading her books. She would stop crying after a few minutes and listen to the books and forget about the boob. She still asks for boob during the day when tired or upset - I repeat that she's a big girl now and we don't do that anymore. I then distract and or let my husband take her away to play.

Thanks @teddy50. He doesn’t feed at all in the day, hasn’t for over a year now. Just nighttime now! He just seems to work himself up into a right state and get so cross. It’s exhausting. We’ll just keep going!

I hope your little one manages to start settling herself soon and you get your evenings back.

Well what you are doing now isn't working so it's worth trying something else.

Rapid return is the option I would take.

Have a real set routine. Little bit of supper, up for a bath, straight to room after, story on your knee, into cot/bed, goodnight. Maybe have a grow clock so she can associate the star image with sleep and the sun image with wake.

Leave the room and close the door.

If she comes to you, return her to bed silently over and over and over til she falls asleep. The return element will shorten as the days go on.

If she is in a cot and cries, go in after 2 mins and lay her down. Then 4 mins. Then 6 mins. Etc. Stretch the return time a little each time. Stay silent, no eye contact.

Thank you @BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz we will give this a try.

I should add: she'll also wake up anytime between 2am and 4am and cry for mummy endlessly until I bring her into our bed (currently just my bed, as it's not big enough for three). Should I apply the same approach to the early morning waking? We tried similar previously and she was pretty much just up for the day from 4.30/5am 😨

Honestly OP there are 2 types of parents. Those who do some kind of sleep training and those who don't. I myself sleep trained mine when they were toddlers and since then we've had evenings to ourselves (they're now 9 and 7). My friend's daughter is 13 and STILL wants a parent to sit with her while she drops off. My cousin's son is 8 and she still has to be with him for hours at bedtime. She has no evenings. She told me she and her husband can't ever go out because she couldn't expect a babysitter to sit with her 8 year old for hours! Me and my husband often went out for dinner (in the good old days begore lockdown). My observations are that you need teach them how to sleep without you or it goes on forever.

Agree with rapid return and at night. I think the key to staying focused is imagining how this will be when you also have a newborn. Also, explain it to her. Explain why she needs to go to sleep on her own and stay in bed, sometimes a simple explanation can help too.

“ My friend's daughter is 13 and STILL wants a parent to sit with her while she drops off. My cousin's son is 8 and she still has to be with him for hours at bedtime.”

This is unusual. I know loads of parents who haven’t sleep trained and their children were happy to fall asleep by themselves well before primary age. There’s likely to be other things going on that they choose not to share with judgemental people

Ah I hadn't read your update when I posted. I sleep trained my toddlers when they were still in cots. Yes it'll be harder when she's in a bed. I have a really good book called Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child by Marc Weissbluth. It looks at sleep issues from babies to adolescents. For toddlers he recommends just picking them up and putting them back to bed should they get up. He said the first few nights you could literally be up 200 times!!! Then maybe 50 times the next night but after a few nights they get the message and don't bother. It's all down to your stamina and resolve. I'd do it knowing that within a week I'd have my evenings back.

I used explain too many times there.

I think Sally is right some people don’t have it in them to sleep train, fair enough, but honestly can you endure years of this potentially? I think pretty much all children would love their parents to sit with them whilst they drift off and get in to bed with them, but If you don’t want that you’ve got to make the call to sort it or wait for it to stop (however long that takes).

Honestly OP there are 2 types of parents.

I think this is broadly true. I’m in the not training camp. Contrary to some horror stories on this thread, my 8yo falls asleep by himself and has done for a couple of years now (before then it was so brief I didn’t mind/kinda valued ten mins meditation in the dark/felt he was getting something important from it; when the time came that it didn’t work for us any more, I could explain that really clearly to him and it was entirely without tears and trauma). My 2yo sends me out of the bedroom while she drifts off to sleep about half the time. There are things I got wrong with my firstborn for sure, but staying with him to reassure him as he drifted off to sleep (he’s always been crap with transitions) is not something I regret.

Tbh my view is that with a toddler and a newborn, I would probably accept that ‘evenings back’ is a couple of years off still and that’s ok. I’d also worry that anything you do now to fix it may be instantly undone by the unsettling arrival of a baby (although the respite in the interim might make it worth it? That’s a personal call). So I’m on the ‘reframe and cope’ side. But you have to do what’s right for you all, and I don’t think a bit of sleep training at 2 is cruel or anything. You can explain clearly and kindly and she will understand even if she doesn’t agree. Good luck!

Our DS was very similar and gradual withdrawal worked very well. I started by lying on the floor beside his cot while he went to sleep then over a few weeks I moved closer and closer to his door and eventually out side. I can now put him in his cot and leave his room with the door almost closed and tell him that mummy's on the floor then sneak off straight away.