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When do I get my evenings back?

76 replies

teddy50 · 26/03/2020 19:41

We had DD two years ago, and two years later, we still don't have our evenings to ourselves. We've just about weaned her off breastfeeding to sleep, but she now requires one of us to sit with her until she's asleep.

The falling asleep process can take a long time. A really long time. I try to sneak out when I think she's asleep, but often I misjudge (and apparently I clomp when I walk - excuse me for being pregnant and a bit elephantine, husband) and she jerks awake and wails like a banshee. Then we start all over. We've tried letting her cry but she has stamina and it isn't very nice.

Anyone else in these shoes? I'd really like to get this right before we have our second in the summer! 🆘

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
Quicklittlenamechange · 27/03/2020 09:19

I'm laughing at your alleged perfect parenting techniques!!

Laugh away!
Im not the one sat there all evening and moaning about it.

Honestly some people need parenting classes Wink

EleanorSaysFork · 27/03/2020 09:22

Kids vary and families vary, I think it is often a bit of trial and error to find what works for you and your child. When my son was 2, bedtime gradually got harder and having previously gone to sleep fairly quickly, it was taking longer for him to drop off. We tried dropping the nap and (although I missed it!!) bedtime got significantly better. I also moved his bedtime half an hour later and that seemed to help too. Although later seemed counterintuitive to getting more evening, he was falling asleep so quickly that it was worth it. Maybe try dropping or shortening a nap?

A year on and he generally falls asleep during his bedtime story or five minutes after while I read my own book.

FinallyHere · 27/03/2020 10:00

she now requires one of us to sit with her until she's asleep

So far, this has seemed a reasonable expectation to her: yelling has got her what she wants.

As PP said, your options are to continue or to demonstrate that crying does not deliver the desired effect for the little one

By no means an easy or obvious choice, but a choice all the same.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

twinkledag · 27/03/2020 10:03

Gradual retreat. Mill around her room so she knows you're there.

GreyishDays · 27/03/2020 10:03

When you say you’ve let her cry, have you done Gradual Retreat?
Sit next to her bed and after a few days move further away. Then if she’s crying you know she’s not frightened etc. Google will bring up the details.

teddy50 · 27/03/2020 11:09

Thanks for everybody's input, but there's no need to put down those who don't agree with you or be mean. I do think every child is different and there's no magic bullet that fixes everything easily. Those parents who had angelic babies, just be grateful and perhaps consider it's the baby and not the parent who's made it easy. I can honestly say I did all the same things at the start as a friend of mine, but her baby's just a lot more easygoing 🤷🏻‍♀️ what can you do?

I do appreciate the sleep training advice and will try again. Thank you.

Final note @ScissorsBike don't be so rude. go away then if you don't have advice - it's a public forum and I'm allowed to ask!

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BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 27/03/2020 11:14

Don't let ScissorsBike get to you - they post inn a similar way on pretty much all the threads they are on. It stands out like a sore thumb because they are just so fucking rude.

PatricksRum · 27/03/2020 11:17

@Quicklittlenamechange People who are committed to natural sleep and understand it, I don't see them moaning if I'm honest.

converseandjeans · 27/03/2020 15:20

Agree with later bed time if you want to carry on with lunch nap.

There's a chart with average hours per day. My DS dropped his nap just after 2nd birthday and I was gutted! He was a live wire & would refuse to chill or have quiet time. I think he needed the minimum hours but once asleep would be crashed out for the night. Your DD might only need say 12 hrs per day total & it's up to you how you break it up. From memory DS only had 11 hrs total per day by that age. Think it was 8-7. I'll attach chart I found.

www.sleepfoundation.org/press-release/national-sleep-foundation-recommends-new-sleep-times

teddy50 · 27/03/2020 15:45

@converseandjeans thanks! Oh god I really don't want to drop a nap just yet (and she does seem to need it), but maybe you're right. I'll make the most of the clocks changing this weekend to delay her bedtime and see if it helps her wake later ⛅️

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minipie · 27/03/2020 15:51

Cut out the nap, or at least cut it down to

BertieBotts · 27/03/2020 18:48

I do think there are solutions in between "suck it up" and "let her cry". FWIW.

She's 2 so she should be starting to get a bit of language and verbal understanding to play with, which will be a huge help.

There is a nice book called The No Cry Sleep Solution for Toddlers, which is helpful if you want to change things but can't deal with crying based sleep training measures. Lots of useful suggestions in there. I haven't actually read this one but I've read the original No Cry Sleep Solution and the Newborn one and both are very good with plenty of suggestions and troubleshooting.

And yes, I think there is a sort of split between those who consider sleep training and those who don't - but not sleep training doesn't mean you just have to live with things that are making you frustrated until they magically grow out of them - you are allowed to make some changes that benefit you! I personally wouldn't do crying type sleep training, and I wouldn't do rapid return, although by all means try them if you think they are the right thing. For me it's just more about either a two way communication if they're old enough to understand and handle that, or trying to gently stretch the boundaries of what she's comfortable with a little at a time so that she's not getting distressed, and therefore expanding your options in the longer term. It doesn't have to be a battle that only one of you can "win", and I'm not comfortable personally with "training" methods that involve leaving a child in distress, even though all of the following ideas could absolutely come under the heading of sleep training, so it's a bit fuzzy.

Sleep is going to happen when they're tired, relaxed, comfortable and sleepy. As she is eventually going to sleep with you present I don't think tired, comfortable or sleepy are the problem, so it's a question of can you get her to relax without you there. The way you describe her jumping up as soon as she thinks you are leaving in particular makes me think she's not especially relaxed about the idea of you leaving, indeed, she's quite anxious about it. So I'd try a couple of different things out just to see if you can get anywhere with them. The idea with both is to gently get her used to the idea that you can be there for her without necessarily being right there by the bed.

First of all, when you've been there for a while but you know she isn't close to sleep, let her know that you're reeeeeeeally desperate for a wee and you need to run and go for one, but you promise to come right back. Use whichever words/phrases you think she would understand the best. And then leave, do a wee (if you like) or just count about 30 seconds, and then go back in. If she does cry, it's less than a minute, and you might conceivably have needed a wee! If she's calm when you get back then just continue exactly as you were before, whether that's reading stories, stroking her back or just sitting quietly. If she's upset then start off just saying something reassuring without picking her up, and if that doesn't work, restart your initial calming methods to get her to go to sleep. Try this again, not on subsequent nights, but randomly to see if she adapts to the idea that sometimes you leave, but you always come right back.

If it works: Try it at different times, like when she's almost asleep. Try leaving for longer or telling her different reasons that you're leaving, especially as she gets older and increases her understanding. Eventually using this technique you should be able to move to a state where you tell her "Mummy has to go, but I'll come and check on you in half an hour/an hour/after dinner/when I go to bed." And she will be fine with this.

Second: Try experimenting with where exactly you sit in terms of distance from her. Ideally you want to find a point which is similar to how she felt about not having milk on that first night - where she's OK but not totally happy or comfortable with it, but not distressed either. Reading the books from this new, further away point is a good idea. Keep that as the new routine until she comes to expect it and is totally OK with it at which point, do another move further out. Eventually, you'll sit just outside the door, which after one successful night you can just leave. Other people have mentioned gradual retreat which is similar, also disappearing chair.

Third: Try weaning her off the stories by stopping reading when she is a little less sleepy each night with the idea being that after a while you read one story and then sit, and long term that you read one story and then leave. Along the same lines of "stop breastfeeding while they are still drowsy but awake" - I have never had any success with this one ever. But you can try it.

Fourth: As her language and communication grows, try suggesting other sources of comfort to her. I don't think you will be able to do this quite yet (although she might surprise you!) but it will be something she might be able to understand better as she gets older. Explain that mummy/daddy is very busy tonight and has to go and But would she like to snuggle up with instead? And mummy/daddy will come and check on her later. OR "I'm too tired to read you a story tonight, but would you like me to put on a magic story instead?" Play an audio book, you can get CDs or MP3s, somewhere out of her reach in the room on very low volume so that she has to lie still and not rustle the covers to be able to hear it. Stay if you like, maybe to attempt the disappearing chair idea at a future date, or introduce this if she's having trouble with you leaving when attempting one of the other methods.

JiltedJohnsJulie · 27/03/2020 19:10

If you aren't keen on letting her cry, try the No Cry Sleep Solution for Toddlers and preschoolers.

teddy50 · 27/03/2020 19:52

Thank you @BertieBotts that's so kind of you to take the time to write all that out. I like idea 1 a lot and will give it a try.

So tonight I tried sleep training Ferber style, and as predicted, disaster. Not because the toddler cried - because that was entirely predictable and normal - but because my husband was snide and horrible about trying and after a few mins of crying said, 'well this is going well' and stormed into her room. He thinks we can't go from zero to 100 in one night, but surely that's sort of the point of Ferber. Anyway, this rules out Ferber for us as a family now I guess.

I shall try the 'I need a wee' method and see how we get on. Feeling very low.

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AllRainbows · 27/03/2020 23:50

I would second the gradual retreat. I had pretty much the same situation but had to sit with my daughter beside her bed until she was 4 which is obviously not what you want ! So basically what I did was move closer and closer to the door each night
Eventually I was sitting outside the door so she couldn't see me but could hear me. Then I moved to the stairs and by this point she was so used to going to sleep without me in the room that she would be asleep in minutes and I didn't need to sit there anymore !

Lynda07 · 28/03/2020 00:06

Is it possible your daughter doesn't need as much sleep as some other children of her age? She could sit downstairs with you, amusing herself, cuddling up and would eventually fall asleep next to you, then you could put her to bed or take her up to bed when you go. Remember that children are individuals, there's no one size fits all.

Rainbowunicat · 28/03/2020 00:11

Don't feel bad OP. Ferber isn't suitable for everyone, I couldn't have done it.
Fwiw I was that perfect parent. My first 2 kids slept like perfect angels because I was such a good mum Wink ...then I had my third. Hmm We did all the same things but somehow she hadn't read the baby books! I had to do what a pp said- reframe my expectations. I gave in, and cuddled her each night for as long as she needed. Honestly, once I stopped fighting her, we both relaxed and it only took a few weeks before she was sleeping much more easily.
I'm not saying it will be easy, but sometimes you just need to work on adjusting your expectations. This period in their lives feels long but it doesn't last forever.
One piece of advice I will give is whenever we started to feel frazzled, we'd focus on getting the adults as much sleep as possible for a day or two. So forget any sleep training, give each other lie-ins, take baby in your bed- whatever, just for a day or two. That way you'll be refreshed and able to tackle it.
Try not to let the stress come between you. You must both be exhausted. Cut each other a bit of slack. Good luck!

teddy50 · 28/03/2020 06:36

Thank you @Rainbowunicat really lovely words and great advice about cutting each other some slack. Everything seems worse when you're knackered!

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SandyFire · 29/03/2020 15:11

Good luck with it all. I also forgot to say in my other post about nipping out for a wee/30seconds and then leaving it a bit longer each time, that it didn’t work first time I tried it. She just went apeshit as soon as I even moved to stand up. Tried a few times and it just wasn’t happening. So I left it and tried again a couple of months later and it worked a treat. So even though something doesn’t work now, it might in a month or so. They change so much at this age.

teddy50 · 29/03/2020 16:09

@SandyFire absolutely, changing every day, so it's worth trying out some old strategies now and again

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Cherry85 · 02/04/2020 02:09

We signed up for little ones sleep training and our 8 week old goes to bed at 7band sleeps through to 7 with a 1am feed.

Would highly reccomend!

HistoryHeroes · 04/04/2020 08:45

Really shocked at the number of people saying sleep train! If she gets that upset already at 2, sleep training will just make her more insecure and scared you will never come when she cries.

Have you read The Gentle Sleep Book by Sarah Ockwell Smith? There are some tips for your daughter's age in there.

In general though; lots of love and reassurance, time in her toom. Does she spend time playing in there and feeling comfortable and safe? Awareneas you will come immediately when she needs you. It will get better op. She is only 2 after all!

HistoryHeroes · 04/04/2020 08:47

Also sleep training may make the babies stop crying, but research shows that the stress level is still sky high so not great psychologically when they're older sadly.

EnidAlexandraRollins · 04/04/2020 08:53

My daughter (now 10) just wouldn't sleep train. We tried everything. We paid out a lot of money. She just couldn't.

I would say she was 5 before we got any semblance of an evening back.

It's just the way she was/is.

It felt unending and terrible at the time. Now I barely remember it unless I try!

Some children can't sleep train. Don't beat yourself up about it. I found it much easier to deal with once I just accepted it and went with the flow.

I didn't need parenting classes Grin . She just needed time to mature.

My son who is 4 years older than her slept absolutely fine from the very beginning. No training, no drama. So I'm happy it wasnt anything to do with us! Just the way she was.

Stay strong and calm! Easier said than done I know.

chickedeee · 04/04/2020 09:06

You get your evenings back briefly and then lose them again as you kids stay up later from back end of primary school!

When they become teenagers they stay up later than you 😂

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