Is my 2 yo really so badly behaved?

[FriedFortress]

OK, I really need to hear from some other parents. My mum is convinced my toddler (2 years and 5 months) is a terror and I am letting her get away with way too much. We went to visit them over the weekend and:

• they have a cat my daughter loves. It was impossible to get her to leave the cat alone. She was constantly trying to pet it and pick it up, so cat was quite stressed. I felt terrible about this; we don't have pets at home so it's all new to her.
• she is a bad sleeper (always has been) and gets up often during the night, asking to be tucked in again
• she kept running around and jumping on the sofa and demanding adult attention.
• she is going through a phase where she spits on things and then goes "ew gross". So yeah, gross.
• You can tell her no a hundred times, but she just thinks it is funny.

She is very expressive and has advanced language skills (has spoken in complete and grammatically correct sentences since she was about 18 months old). I think that is also why people sometimes forget she is only 2. She also just had a little sister (DD2 is three months), and she's been finding it really hard to cope with not getting our full attention, so I know she's "difficult" right now.

Anyway, my mum says that we are too permissive and if we do not learn to control her, she'll go bad. She also threatened that if my daughter ever comes to stay with her, she'll give her a spanking if she needs it. I was obviously not happy with this.

So, is she really as terrible as my mum says? And does anyone have advice on how to set boundaries (other than my mum's horrible spanking suggestion)? She is fearless, and loves being naughty, so time-outs etc just don't work at the moment.

If she is my DD was also awful.

She sounds pretty normal to me OP. Please don't leave her at your mum's.

she’s only two poor thing. The spitting thing could perhaps be tackled a bit more perhaps ask for external help? Otherwise she sounds like a happy energetic 2 yr old. My daughter was the same at that age and it wound me up, took me a while to realise it’s not being naughty as such just very excited!

I think 2 is still quite young to expect good behaviour. In my day back in the time of Noah kids would be locked in the garden shed for a couple of hours for behaving like that or smacked but I think spitting or jumping on the sofa would have earned my son time out outside the room sitting on the stairs even if I had to sit with him and a telling off.

The spitting but especially the cat thing would be my areas to address.
No tolerance of bothering the cat. Show her how to interact appropriately with the cat. If she bothers the cat remove child repeatedly and firmly.

Sorry, I know this isn’t the response u you you’re looking for but some of that is pretty terrible behaviour and I’d have come down hard on it even at 2. The car and the spitting in particular would have got a very stern no stand removal from the area if she persisted. Threat of time outs may not deter her but physically removing her from the cat is necessary and proportionate.

And a time out followed by cuddles and explanations

I don’t think the behaviours are wrong but did you time her out for spitting and cat? It’s hard when you have a new one but it’s best to act quickly on the red line things, especially if her verbal ability is good as you say it is.

I think it also depends on what you did when she kept on doing it over and over again even if you'd told her no 100 times. If she continually ignored you and your demands or requests, to your mum it probably looks like you have little control over her. Equally, your DD knows that you saying no means nothing.

Do you remove her from the situation? Have the naughty step/time out/sanction of some kind?

She's 2 and she's obviously going to be lively and her actions are typical of many toddlers, but from what I've read, it's your reactions and actions towards her behaviour that your mum may see as DD behaviour.

I think you're right that you have to cut her a bit of slack, given that she is only 2 and has just become an older sibling. Having said that, I don't think it's acceptable for any child to run riot in someone else's home, and the younger they are, the easier it should be to stop them, as you can at least physically remove them if necessary.

With a child this age, I'd suggest instant consequences and removing her from situations if she starts behaving in an unacceptable manner. If she won't leave the cat alone, then she must be separated from it - put her and the cat in two different rooms. If she won't stop jumping on the sofa, then you move to another room with her.. It's hard work keeping up with a toddler, let alone when you have a newborn to deal with as well. If you are going to your Mum's again, then I think you need to have a clear plan worked out with your partner (and involve your Mum too) of how to manage your 2 year old, especially if you are busy and unable to take charge of her. You need to work out some sort of response to the spitting too. Maybe totally ignoring it - she is probably looking for (and getting) a reaction?

The cat and spitting would be unacceptable to me. The rest is just a two year old.

How do you deal with punishher for spitting? Or bouncing on the furniture? Or terrorising the poor cat?

I wouldn’t trust the judgement of anyone that threatened to hit my kid. Your mother sounds like a piece of work.

Jumping on furniture, not so great. I’d also work on how to get ‘no’ to mean no. But for the most part, she sounds like a boisterous toddler who’s adjusting to a sibling coming into her family. My 4 year olds behaviour has shifted a lot since we had a new baby, it’s very trying.

Maybe you need to figure out some age appropriate responses to her behaviour, but I’d encourage ‘time in’ as opposed to ‘time out’. Again, don’t listen to someone whose idea of discipline is violence toward a child.

She sounds like a toddler. Don't leave her with your mum.

Hmmm, missed the spitting part. That’s not nice. My dd actually went through this, I got very mad when it happened. Ultimately though, I didn’t rise to it at the time, waited for the moment to be over, then spoke very firmly about how that’s not ok, then had her clean it up. It was a dreadful behaviour but when I stopped reacting, it became a lot less attractive to her.

She needed swiftly removing from the cat, and probably also from the sofa (depends on house rules really - some sofas that’s fine). Perhaps also from other situations. The sleep thing is hard on you but very much within normal and definitely not ‘bad behaviour’!

I wonder if the visit to your mum’s set her up to fail a bit, depending how supportive your mum is/isn’t (comment about a good spanking makes me think she’s not very). DD is struggling to cope with the loss of attention at home (very normal - you’d worry more if she wasn’t!) and the likelihood is that at your mum’s she was getting an even smaller share of your focus.

I definitely wouldn’t be spanking (I know you’re not considering this...) and personally I wouldn’t be doing time outs either, but I would be stepping in and actually stopping her physically when the word ‘no’ isn’t enough (which it often isn’t at this age). Over and over and over. Tedious and exhausting (even without a newborn), but sadly there’s no other way around it.

It sounds like you and she are pretty much doing fine though. Some phases of parenting you just have to get through.

Shes probably quite hard work but most 2 year olds are. As pp said you have to use consistent consequences which is easier said than done. It's really not fair if she annoying the cat although if she gets scratched she'll learn her lesson.

As for your mum threatening to smack your dc I would read your dm the riot act about that.
My dm once told me I should shut my dd in a room for an hour a day until she stopped wanting me all the time. Obviously that never happened.
Your dd won't be little for long and she certainly won't go bad. Enjoy her and ignore other people.

Um, actually that is pretty poor behavior, but also normal.
I would limit visits to your mums until she's better behaved.
My nearly 4yo still doesn't understand the naughty step or time outs and imo they don't really achieve anything.
Distraction and redirection is the key to toddler behavior.
Clear rules before you arrive. No jumping on the sofa dd. Leave the cat be. Etc.
Immediately pick her up and remove her from the sofa, cat.
Unfortunately it's very stressful visiting with energetic toddlers. My 2 were the same.
Can you wear her out with a big walk before you visit?

I would just say don't let your daughter stay with your mother. She sounds like a normal toddler who has just had a new sibling.
I'm sorry your mother isn't more supportive and understanding.

To be honest, I'm kind of at end of my rope with disciplining her. I talk to her firmly and sternly, and she thinks it is funny. I remove her from the situation and stay with her: win because 1-1 time with mummy. I remove her from the situation and put her on the naughty step / somewhere by herself: she just sneaks off as soon as she can. So yes, I know she seems out of control - she is a little out of control. I just thought that was fairly normal for her age.

She sounds like a 2 year old. Pushing boundaries. Does removal of toys etc work maybe? Or focusing more on her positive behaviour?

As pp said, the cat and the spitting behaviour are unacceptable and you need to set some firmer boundaries. I simply wouldn't have put up with that kind of behaviour from mine and there would have been immediate consequences (time out etc). I also would find the jumping on the sofa extremely annoying and, after the first time, she should be capable of understanding 'no'. The laughing at you is particularly concerning - it means she knows that you're not serious about teaching her how to behave. Many of the 2.5yr olds we knew who behaved like this are still awful at 6yrs because they were never taught how to behave by their parents.

Oh, I don't know.

I have a bonkers two year old and am getting the feeling that other mums disapprove of her antics at a class we attend. I also suspect they think I'm a bit weak towards her.

So you have my empathy with this. It's a tricky one. I know my perspectives about parenting feed into the situation as I believe in choosing your battles and am very conscious about conformity-policing the behaviour of little girls.

But then I'm dealing with running about and being silly, not spitting.

What I will say is to try a baby gate on her bedroom door. That way, you can leave the door open, you can hear her, but she can't automatically come into your room at night. As for the jumping on sofas, running, and laughing when you say "no", I reckon that's pretty normal (read: my toddler does that nearly every moment of the day).

The cat thing is a bit of a big ask, imv. I don't think you can expect a two year old not to fixate on a pet if it's a new experience to them. So it's probably best if the cat is kept somewhere safe when you visit.

And it's worth bearing in mind that older people tend to forget how wild their own toddlers were, or they had children in situations where they weren't exposed to a lot of the craziness personally.

Not parenting advice but teaching advice which I know is not the same thing, try to be fun and friendly, not No, but oh thank you for being so kind to the cat, I like it so much when you stroke the cat nicely etc. Making things into a game, finding the good in her behaviour and distraction are your friends.

The fact your mum said she would hit her means I wouldn't be leaving her in her care. I have a 2 year old, they can be bloody nightmares.