Toddler behind on verbal skills but he won't sit or focus enough for us to try to develop them

[mamma536]

DS is 2.5. His gross motor skills are brilliant fine motor skills are ok. Communication wise I think he has actually regressed. He used to try to repeat words when we asked, but doesn't anymore. He's stopped using words he used to know. His spoken vocab is probably down to milk, please, no and asking for screens (we are limiting).

We know he understands more (he'll carry out a few instructions and will occasionally fetch something for us) but he won't focus on us to even listen much less carry out any instruction. We try to praise as much as possible, but he doesn't seem to have any interest in pleasing us, which I thought most kids would have, just himself.

We try endlessly with animals, colours, instructions, books, but he has no interest. He almost never sits down for a book. I took him to a playgroup once and tried to sit down to read with him. He ran off as usual, but a little group of other kids had also sat down with me to listen to the whole story - I've never experienced that before and it makes me want to cry.

He adores pouring water and beads, and loves trains. We indulge him with a homemade pouring station and try to encourage him with trains, but it's a bit hit and miss.

We had his 2yo assessment already and were given some games and exercises to try with him to encourage his communication skills. But he has no interest, just wants to run and jump around.

It bothers me that he won't look at me much of the time and I can't get his attention, mainly because he's zeroed in on something else. That said he does look at me when he wants to and have cuddles.

I'm just frustrated that we can't do all the things your supposed to do to help them develop. We can't read with him and end up reading at him which can't be much good. So we're left with lots of physical activities which are exhausting.

Do we need to worry and look for more help? Or should just keep trying and see how it goes? His dad didn't talk until 3yo and his aunt (DH's sister) was also hyper at his age and they're obviously fine now. I thought there would be this massive leap in communication between 2-2.5 that I was really looking forward to, but he seems to be going backwards in some ways.

I saw you mention UK costs OP... might give you some idea but the therapist who worked with my daughter charged around £70 an hour I think it was - but she was cheap by the standards of the ones local to us (not because she wasn't good - she was flipping fantastic and we got incredibly lucky with her having space to take DD on).

Even if you have a fairly good idea what might be behind it - I'd still urge you to go down the hearing check route anyway - it was the first question/attempted fob off we got every single time we tried to get any speech therapy help via the NHS (don't get me started here... and I'm now a SALT student myself but still don't get me started) and the fact we'd had the foresight to get that checked and eliminated as a possibility helped us be taken more seriously and cut down any delays.

Wasn't autism in my daughter's case - she has verbal dyspraxia (and general motor dyspraxia as well).

It is well worth getting a SALT assessment ASAP where you are. Pay whatever it costs.

If you're in the US there are state funded early years assessments available in many states. eiclearinghouse.org/getting-started/ei-program-services/

I've been worrying that they have not made any friends yet and the lack of socialising might not be helping. In play centres he'll run around on his own mostly, and will try to engage will offer kids, occasionally trying to hug them or hold their hand. I don't know if this means anything in particular.

The DS is perfectly normal in this. Children this age do not 'make friends'. They play alongside other children or do their own running around or climbing thing. There is no 'playing with' in a meaningfully interactive way. They hug or hold hands, poke a belly button, touch hair, etc. At this age they can also poke a baby's eyes to see what happens. You have to watch them around a family pet because they don't understand what might hurt and can get carried away exploring the fur or pulling the tail or ears or trying to poke eyes, put a hand in a mouth, etc,. The concept of hurting another human or animal doesn't occur to them because they are (naturally and normally) very egotistical, only really conscious of their own experiences, and can't imagine anyone else's, though you can point this out and remind them.

What about your husband though?
Is it possible he has been depressed since the move?
Did the move coincide with him becoming a SAHD?
How much actual interaction and play-singing-dancing-conversation-reading to is DS receiving at home from DH? Why did the singing and music stop? Does DH take time daily to try to sing interactive songs like The Wheels on the Bus, Heads and Shoulders, Knees and Toes, Row, Row, Row Your Boat, etc?

Thanks for the insights into the costs - it doesn't sound too dissimilar from where we live now, not a reason to move back to the UK anyway.

DH has struggled a bit since the move. SAHDs are even less common in this country and harder to make friends when most toddlers are in childcare or looked after by maids/helpers. DH did more songs with DS when they were attending classes in the UK. But DS doesn't have patience with them anymore - he prefers to do his own thing - so I think they don't do it as much anymore. He knows he needs to persist at home though.

How much of language regression could be down to what we do as parents? We made a lot of combined effort with DS when he was younger to help him develop in a variety of ways. But then I went back to work full time at 18m and DS became more physically active and less interested in books, nursery rhymes, taking part in songs, toys etc (tbh I'm not sure if he was ever interested, but it was obviously easier to sit down for them when he was younger). DH kept up with the classes but has naturally gravitated towards things that DS was more interested in, like playgrounds, forest school, long walks, exploring, more physical classes. He does make an effort chatting to DS but I think it's more organic since we can't hold his attention for very long. I feel very guilty because when we try more of the verbal, nursery, music stuff and he runs away, we give up very quickly, and now we are almost dismissing activities or toys before even trying them because we know they won't hold his interest.

I care in to say two things I think are very important :

More than words book (Hanen)
Hearing test

I also totally agree with following your instincts and seeking a referral about the regression

My understanding from the Hanson book I used ‘it takes two to talk’, is that you are SUPPOSED to do exactly what you are doing - follow them in their play and observe, wait and listen - so you spark little interactions based on what they are interested in. The books give lots of practical ideas for how to use this to get language going

We also left so many of our books and toys behind in the UK when we moved 6 months ago, and came here with a bare minimum of stuff. Yesterday we went to find First 100 words that DS used to love in the hope that he would remember. Surprisingly he did, and with a bit of prompting he did say three or four words, one of them spontaneously, and all of them he has an intense interest in. DH was really happy and reassured, and I was happy too to hear them too but I also think that after a 6 month gap, he should be able to say more than this 😢. I think I can also only recall one time when we think he put two independent words together. He babbles a lot, like he is close to talking in sentences, but he's been doing this for 6 months now. We really should be worried right?

Thanks, we did look for the book yesterday but it wasn't available. I'm going to try online now.

I was told to be concerned about no two word sentences at this age.

BUT many children really do progress with the help of Hamen style stuff at home and SALT - my son learned to speak in sentences, so please try not to panic

Look on the Winslow Press

I would be looking at your DH's lack of friends or adult contact and possible depression/low mood as an element of this. A lot of the activities DH seems to have gravitated toward involve just him and DS, maybe with each in his own little world. Children get used to what they are exposed to.

Sometimes a routine can be developed where a child does alternating physical and quieter activities, maybe even incorporating singing together or question and answer verbal routines, high fives, into the physical activities (ideal stage for this is putting on/taking off jacket, hat, boots, shoes) with naptimes or mealtimes used as opportunities for reading, or in the case of naptime, rocking on a lap, reading a few stories, reciting a few rhymes, and singing a few quiet songs. Mealtime can involve a story being read while DS is captive in a high chair. Traveling in the car can involve singing together from a CD or spotify list of children's songs. Make the most of times DS can't run off.

Definitely try to find replicas of DS's books and toys from six months ago, if not the actual items.

Thanks, Hamen book is ordered!

@mathanxiety those are good tips. I've just been reading to him at lunch and he did express more interest in the books then usual. We'll make an effort to read on metro journeys too which are quite frequent.

The new country we are in, it's quite busy and stimulating. You can't get away from bright lights, screens, noise and crowds anywhere. He doesn't seem too fazed by it but I do wonder if it is having some effect on him.

I take your point about DH add DS being in their own worlds even if they are spending time together. I will try to talk more to DH about adjusting DS routine but he is already a little defensive as it is 😟. I can't make a suggestion without making him feel like it's an attack on his parenting.

This would have described DD1 at 2.5. Everybody told me she would grow out of it. She's only just turned three and is now undergoing an autism assessment.

Hah the same thing happened to me. DH ended up getting me a late card from moonpig. I was very upset at the time too, mainly because he'd had a birthday before xmas and I'd gotten him a card from DS, so ithought he'd have known.

Retrospectively, I do understand his position. These little details like buying cards on behalf of your baby would ttake getting used to, amongst a million other much more important things.
If you still really want a card, I'd say just ask for one. It's not too late.

I have another question. With my toddler's obsessive behaviours, such as pouring food/water, should I be indulging that? Initially we were a bit frustrated that he'd list interest in eating or didn't want to play with any other toys in soft play or swim, he just wanted to pour (we try to encourage him to do other things). But he'd insist on pouring for so long, maybe 15-40 mins (shorter if we weren't right there next to him), we started using it as an opportunity to have a bit of a break or get things done. It seemed better than his other phases like slamming doors for instance. He used to love watching the washing machine, so I'd park him in front of it in his bimbo when I needed to get something done. Now I'm not sure if indulging him is the right thing to do.

Secondly, I've been wanting to wean off breastfeeding for a long time, especially overnight. I thought I'd wait until I could explain to him why and he could understand, but I've never got the sense that he was able. So my husband has been cosleeping with him, which prompts some distress at bedtime, though he calls down quickly. Should we continue or should we give it more time?

And thirdly, when it comes to teeth brushing, we've really struggled. We've tried a lot of videos, modelling, letting him brush or teeth, but he just throws the toothbrush away, trying different toothbrushes. DH now holds him while I brush his teeth and he cries. I feel so guilty about it. I justify it by thinking it's like wrestling with him in a car seat or into a nappy, it has to be done. Could we be doing him damage? The alternative is not brushing his teeth, which we couldn't do for a year 😢.

You need to keep at the tooth brushing, imo.

Also, the fascination with water and pouring (water, sand, dry rice, etc) is normal for many DCs. Maybe let him play with water if he co-operates with tooth brushing?

Tooth brushing:
-have you tried different flavour/ flavourless toothpaste? It may be a sensory issue. But it needs to be done in some form. Distraction (water pouring?) may help.

Obsessions/ interests: some doing what you enjoy is fine- I suspect most pre school children zone out with screen for periods. I think you (like all of us) need to be honest about how much/ how often. At other times, can you join his interests and play in parallel?

Night feeding: if you want to stop, stop. He has a loving parent with him, he is safe, he is fed. You are not doing him harm by this- if it is what works for all of you (not is there any harm in carrying on if it is what you want).

I think although it’s really hard you are doing the right thing in continuing the tooth brushing - you are looking after him.

With the breastfeeding and co-sleeping I was in the same position. I gently reduced feeding in the day when I wanted to, so it was only at night, but carried on feeding until a bit over 3 and I co slept as she seemed to need it. It was much easier to move her to her own room once she was weaned. When I reduced the feeding at night and then moved her to her own room she had more words and her hearing had improved after grommets so it was easier for her.

Thank you for the reassurance! We are at the beginning of this and I'm suddenly questioning everything we are doing, when we need to be more sensitive and patient.

We've already made contact with a recommended ST. The assessment cost is overwhelming, the equivalent of £500. We are waiting to hear back from a few others including the public hospitals (which will also be expensive.) And I'm on a couple of Facebook groups for support.

What should we expect from an assessment? How many minutes should be spent with the child? Is there more value to getting the most comprehensive tests available? (There are less comprehensive and cheaper assessments done by others.) We can afford it, there's no question will go for it if it helps us, but I want to make sure we are actually getting more for what we might be paying.

Please keep us all posted op!

There are a lot of knowledge people here and they gave me so much help over the years

Our NHS SALT assessment lasted about an hour. I’d expect a private one to be at least as long.

Can you make a list of all the words your son ever uses? We thought DS only had five or six words, but then once we started recording them, he had a lot more. Can you list the words he used to say that he no longer says?

DS said his first sentence when he was about 2.5. I had flash cards with animals on them, and I was asking him what noises various animals made. “What noise does a cat make?” etc etc - and DS knew quite a few of them. He never loved doing stuff like that and obviously had had enough because when I showed him the cow card, he said “Cow makes moo” without waiting for me to ask, then put the lid on the box of cards and stomped off to play. It was like, he said it to shut me up! He’d never said more than one word at a time before that.

I'm a SALT student now (after our experiences with DD I got totally engrossed in it) and the bit I DO know is that the quality of assessment you get isn't a case of throwing more assessment booklets at the case - it's picking the ones to look at the right things you're interested in knowing. Go too far and you end up with a kid who is completely bored witless and climbing the ceiling and don't get the information that's actually going to help you!

Think our private one took 90 minutes and that was absolutely the max DD (was 5/6 at the time) could have focused for - and that was mixed in with games (to her - in reality the therapist was transcribing sound substitutions she made while playing the game) and half of it was conducted with DD insisting she was a bat hanging upside down off the sofa - and then trying to read the answer booklet!

With regards to tooth brushing, we were referred to a special needs dentist who was amazing. Despite really struggling with tooth brushing their teeth are perfect - maybe because they never eat sweets, chocolate etc (they don’t like them!), but maybe because they are constantly chewing on toys which the dentist said is probably cleaning their teeth quite well. They advised giving them a loaded toothbrush and letting them chew on it if that’s all they will do - that will help a lot, and desensitise them to it.

With the pouring, there’s no harm if he enjoys it. You could try mixing it up so getting him scooping dried pasta or cereal from one bowl to another (or non edible stuff if he’s not a mouther like mine), or maybe even those big pipettes, using big plastic tweezers to pick things up and drop them.

If you look up schema, it gives you other activities that are similar / satisfy the same sensory needs as the one they are doing.

I would keep going with the first 100 words. Saying each and pointing to it. Repeating the word maybe 5 times.
They need to hear a word several times and I think need about 50 words to put 2 together.
He does seem to like repetitive things.
Kids with asd can like spinning things like the washing machine/wheels etc.

Neither of mine would listen to me reading a story at a playgroup.
I would maybe see if he is listening when he is pottering about and if so do some reading to him then.
So short stories . I used to test dd by saying once upon a (and wait).
Doing interactive things like animal noises as these can count as words.
Or nursery rhymes.
Some asd kids do echolalia so repeating whole sentences. Or phrases.
I probably would be testing him by saying would you like x or y.
It is certainly possible i would expect a Dad to be less chatty.
Also my dc spoke earlier than a lot of others (whose kids napped more or went to bed before Dad came home so hearing less speeech). We also didnt go to soft play etc as i didnt drive.