Calling Baby a Dick

[HB2019]

DSis calls her 14w DC Satan, a dick, says his name loudly in his face when he's fussy, and just generally loses her cool with him. I've tried positive language when we're together, just showering him in "good boy!" And saying "don't worry, he's just deciding what he wants" and I've asked my other sister to do the same, I feel like the baby needs someone to stand up for him. But DSis tells us to back off, when we asked her not to call him a dick she said "I can and I will" and "mind our own fucking business"

She's been diagnosed with PND so I don't want to do too much as she clearly needs help but I don't know how to help. But then the other side of me thinks this needs flagging as, in my mind, if she does this when we're there what does she do when we're not? But then thirdly I've got a new baby myself so is it just a difference in parenting styles?

Totally ready to be told I'm handling this badly and to back off

I would be very uncomfortable with your sister's behaviour, it's not just a case of differing parenting styles. Do you are any warmth between your sister and get child?

Do you see any warmth between your sister and her? child

@Landlubber2019 uncomfortable is exactly how I feel.
I see the warmth on social media but I'm yet to see it in real life, I don't visit often, so I've asked my other sister to help me but I think that's causing tension between the two. So really I wonder if I should back off. I wonder if it feels like we're conspiring and judging.
Rock and a hard place

Well she sounds horrid. I understand PND is hideous, but that isn’t an excuse for how she is acting.

If it was my sister I’d be sitting her down and having an extremely frank talk with her, and if she feels like she needs more help to be a parent finding some resources that can provide support.

I would find out the Health visitors number and ring it and inform them so they can pass the message on to her HV.

What is her partner like if she has one? Does she uses swearing and that sort of language normally for other people so it's an extension of that or is it unusual? Is she caring for his basic needs and says some positive things about him too or is it all negative?

@MustardScreams you're right I need to talk to her but I think I'm scared of rocking the boat. I don't want to come across like I'm saying "I'm an excellent mother to my baby, you're not, you need to do this this and this"

You owe it to the baby to flag this to the health visitor or another relevant professional. The sooner, the better.

I would contact your hv and flag this, also find out if there are groups you can attend locally together. This must be so hard for you to watch

@HPandTheNeverEndingBedtime
I think I needed someone to tell me it's bad enough to tell the HV.

Honestly the negatives far outweigh the positives when I visit. She just hands him over to our parents and comes to sit down, which is absolutely fine, we all want two arms back sometimes.

I have no concerns his basic needs aren't being met as she's in a bit of financial trouble so the whole family is chipping in for bills, food shopping, baby milk etc

You see I sound awful like I'm Mary Poppins and she's the worst, so I really feel like I can't speak up.

On her social media though it's all completely different, maybe I just see her having bad days.

Partner loses it too, lots of "shut up "

I call my baby a dick, because he can be! Doesn't mean I don't adore his chubby little cheekedness I'm quite flippant with language though and while it may sound harsh to some ears its actually rather affectionate on my side. Maybe she's the same but if she means it in a bitter way then do contact HV.

@mousemousse
If your baby fussed with a bottle (or boob) would you call him Satan?
If your baby started grizzling would you say loudly "HORACE!" Or whatever his name is?

Am I being precious because nobody's allowed to talk to my baby like that?

I love my bump but I’ve been so unwell this whole pregnancy that I have gotten depressed (having treatment currently).

I (affectionately) can be derogatory about bump to family and friends as tbh it’s my source of misery. Doesn’t mean I think it’s actually the babies fault, but it’s very very hard when your experience of pregnancy/having a new born is horrible and you’ve got nothing left to give emotionally or physically.

Luckily many of my family and friends also suffered like I have (hyperemesis and several other issues) so they ‘get it’.
If you’re concerned for baby’s safety that’s one thing but if you just don’t like your Dsis’s parenting approach as it’s not as sunny and flowery as you think it should be that’s another. At 14 weeks the baby doesn’t understand what she’s saying and it’s perfectly possible that she loves him very much whilst also struggling/resenting him a bit.

I hope she’s getting the correct treatment - but if she is, further shaming from family won’t help xx

I'd definitely contact the health visitor, especially as she's been diagnosed with PND. Can you arrange to meet regularly with her for a walk with the babies or to go for a coffee? This way you can still keep an eye on her but it won't be as obvious as dropping round hers

@WorldsOnFire
That's how I feel, like I'm shaming her. But it makes me uncomfortable and it's jarring to see him being treated like this.
Maybe my emotions are high

PND isn't good for babies either. And her partner doesn't have PND. I think she needs more help.

I have PND and PNA and have for about 18 months now. It comes in waves so any frustration or anxiety I would feel wouldn't be present all the time.

If your sister and her partner are generally always harsh in their interactions with their baby I think that direct words are needed from someone.

I have occasionally called my children names because sometimes children's behaviour is awful (not deliberately obviously) and I just don't have the capacity to deal with it. I feel terrible after shouting at them or losing my temper because I know it's me that's behaving badly not them.

However, there is an awful lots of love, cuddles, affection and laughter too. Always has been since they were born.

Aggression and negative interactions should not be the norm...

@Seaandsand83 I like a couple of hours away, but I think I should visit more regularly

I had PND and PNA (still do 3 years on) but I've never called my baby a dick of Satan in his face, even now when he's deliberately testing me (toddler behaviour).

I'm not saying you can't and shouldn't be frustrated with parenthood because fuck me, it's relentless - but a very young baby not complying with the mother's wishes isn't being deliberately obtuse like a toddler or teen, it's a baby looking for needs to be met. Swearing about your children is common but realistically it should be done away from their ears, in the safety of someone who can listen to you rant for five mins.

PND (and other post natal illnesses) are horrific and draining and on top of being the main care giver can feel like a slog at the best of times. I still feel that way as a SAHM. But she clearly needs some help, if only to manage her emotions around her child and to ensure she doesn't lose her temper regularly enough for her young child to grow up thinking it's normal or to fear her. The impact on emotional neglect or fear can be really profound for people.

What do other members of the family think? Could you get her to see her GP and ask for some more help? Something like medication and CBT to manage her emotions may help?

The behaviour of the father of the baby is a much bigger red flag to my mind. If he is like that to his baby then no doubt he is doing similar or worse to your sister when no one is around. Plus men are statistically more likely to physically hurt children (not saying all men).

Instead of criticising her you would be better off sitting down and calmly asking her how she is, and listening to the answer, taking the time to listen to her basically, not making it about the baby but about her and how she is doing in herself.

She may be getting zero support from the father and just getting criticism and maybe even abuse from him.

There's a difference between affectionately calling a child too young to understand a 'dick' when sleep deprived and exasperated and saying it with venom in anger.

If I heard a parent talking to a new baby like that in the playground (picking up a sibling etc) I would report it to the school as it is a potential safeguarding risk for the future particularly if the partner without PND is doing it too. At best they need a parenting course at worst it's an indicator that things will go southwards as the baby gets older and actually starts pushing boundaries.

I work at a secondary school and just too many children are missed and it's not until they get to our school when some of them actually open up about what's gone on at home since they were tiny. What it has taught me is that abuse and neglect are brushed under the carpet all too often and are far more common that we realize. Sometimes it's 'minor'and causes anxiety and MH problems and the child to act out sometimes it's heartbreakingly awful. So I would always act on something like this that makes me feel uncomfortable just in case.

I call one of my children devil child sometimes, Have once called one of them a dick, and told them to shut up... but, I love them all very much, there is far more warmth love and cuddles than there is of the other stuff. Sometimes shit gets on top of you and even the most patient person can snap. I don't think what you have described is immediate cause for concern, however it does sound like she needs help and support and is struggling. Some people find it harder to be a good parent than others, and need more help.

Lots of people won't agree with calling a child a dick, or telling them to shut up, which is justified, not saying it's right, when I've said It I've felt guilty afterwards, but we all have a breaking point.

Someone suggested contacting her hv, I wouldn't do that you risk losing her completely. The child isn't in immediate danger I assume? You just don't like the way she speaks to the child? I know a girl who swears at her kids all the time, shouts ect, but she does look after them and love them and No1 says she's a bad mum.

Lots of people will disagree with me here but I just think she isn't coping well and she needs help and support.

If you live a couple of hours away how often have you actually seen them to base these assumptions on?

It's best to pass the information on HV, GP maybe ring NSPCC for advice so that they can make a joined up picture. They won't tell you anything but you've passed the information on as a concern to the relevant people. Keep an eye on the situation as best you can. Make it clear to your sister that you are always there for her if she needs you, in cas e her relationship with her partner is abusive.

@PotteringAlong only a handful but I've seen it all in those few visits over the last 3 months. It's not an assumption, I've seen it with my own eyes and it's jarring.

@strangeones
I'm really not saying she's a bad mum, I'm saying I don't know how to help and don't know if I even need to help.
I'm really just worried about the interaction as it can't be helping her, obviously a small baby won't shut up when told so it's just a cycle of frustration that's really difficult to watch.