Calling Baby a Dick

[HB2019]

DSis calls her 14w DC Satan, a dick, says his name loudly in his face when he's fussy, and just generally loses her cool with him. I've tried positive language when we're together, just showering him in "good boy!" And saying "don't worry, he's just deciding what he wants" and I've asked my other sister to do the same, I feel like the baby needs someone to stand up for him. But DSis tells us to back off, when we asked her not to call him a dick she said "I can and I will" and "mind our own fucking business"

She's been diagnosed with PND so I don't want to do too much as she clearly needs help but I don't know how to help. But then the other side of me thinks this needs flagging as, in my mind, if she does this when we're there what does she do when we're not? But then thirdly I've got a new baby myself so is it just a difference in parenting styles?

Totally ready to be told I'm handling this badly and to back off

@Booberella9 totally agree about the boyfriend. They've been together just a short time (14 months) but have been friends for over a decade, and she gushes about him, but I will check that she's ok. I don't really know how to approach that either.

@EmmaJR1 & @NigesFakeWalkingStick
Thanks so much for sharing your experience with PND & PNA
In the family - Our mum feels incredibly guilty that she missed the signs of PND earlier, and she looked sick with worry when I was there last week. I feel like I need to go and support her in giving my sister more support. They do a lot of babysitting, daily visits etc. So mum is giving her a break but maybe that's not the kind of help that's needed? Because as soon as you pass the baby back I guess the feelings are still there?

As someone who has also struggles with PND/PNA, I would say that to be honest your sister probably does feel like you’re judging her (even if you’re not) and the comparison between how you are with your baby and how she is with hers probably makes it worse as she’ll know she’s struggling and you’re not. I swear quite a lot generally and don’t find swear words offensive so yes my DS gets called all sorts when he’s playing up I say ‘don’t be an arse DS’ etc - I’m not being abusive, it’s just the way I talk! I don’t know your sister but if she’s the same the language she’s using might not be an indicator of anything. Above all she AND the baby need support so visiting more often might be nice, try not to make all visits about the baby, talk about her too and things she likes/liked pre-baby, the person she was before she became a Mum still matters. Young babies can be hard work as I’m sure you know and whilst I’m not saying your sister is right in her behaviour, making her feel worse about it won’t change anything, it might even make her resent her baby more because she’ll feel like the baby’s birth ruined her relationships with her family. I’d just say be compassionate, patient and supportive. To be honest I’d also avoid all the gushing ‘good boy/girl’ stuff over the baby while you’re there because you don’t know what the baby’s been like all night or before you arrive. Maybe they’ve been really difficult so you coming in and saying what a good baby they are to your sister with PND whose had a miserable baby to deal with won’t help! It’ll make her resent you for finding her ‘difficult’ baby easy and for praising the baby who has effectively given her a hard time!

PND/PNA is shit. I wouldn’t wish it on anyone and (I might get flamed for this) I actually really feel for your sister because she must be feeling awful right now. I know I did when my DS was very little and he was a much wanted and loved baby. It can affect anyone, it doesn’t discriminate. Even the most kind and loving people can suffer from it. My family handled my PND/PNA badly, I won’t lie. I was shamed for feeling the way I did and told how I should parent ‘better’ and what I SHOULD have been doing. I already knew that, just wasn’t mentally in a place to do it and as a result my self confidence and self esteem is still very low, and there are days when I still hate myself and feel very ashamed of how crap a parent I was and sometimes still am.

Support, don’t judge.

You say they’re not assumptions, but you’re judging how she has been for 14 weeks based on 5 visits. Yes, she might have been like that on the 93 days you’ve not seen her, but she might not have been.

You are judging her, and sister or not you’re judging her on a very very small snapshot of parenting.

@PotteringAlong I just mean I'm not assuming she behaves like this because I have seen it. You are right that I don't know what she does when I'm not there. My mum and sister have told me that she's not coping. How do I help her cope, or just back off?

@BlueMoon1103
I am doing this all wrong. I think it's just shocked me that she's losing her cool with a tiny baby.
I understand what you're saying about stopping calling him a good boy, in my head I was "modelling" or just trying to soothe her baby the way I soothe mine.
I really want to handle this better.

I don't think you can't back off.

It's how you help your DS is the question. Sitting her down and saying you don't like her actions and feel the way she's behaving isn't beneficial to her baby won't be helpful. She'll just feel like you're attacking her. Contacting her HV would probably be a better way of going about things.

It doesn't matter if the baby doesn't understand the words she's saying, it will understand the tone and one day will totally understand. It's not OK to be abusive towards someone just because they can't understand.

I would get your DM to speak to her though. She's more likely to listen to her DM than her sister who, it may seem to her, to be having an easier time.

@HB2019 you sound like a caring sister who just wants to help. If you want a perspective feel free to PM me anytime. I’d maybe speak to your DM first if she has a good relationship with your sister and it will be hard for her not to compare your experience with your baby with her and hers. I’m not sure I’d go to her HV yet, see if your DM can talk to her first. It’s early days still and going to the HV might be breaking her trust and if you do that you risk never being able to get through to her!

If she doesn't get a good attachment with him in the first year to eighteen months then the odds will be stacked against him having good life outcomes and she will likely have a very difficult child and teenager. Poor both of them. Good luck getting her some help.

@BlueMoon1103 this is coming from a place inside me that's caring rather than judging, thank you.
I'll speak to mum but I worry that she's got her head in the sand as she's so upset with herself for missing the early signs of PND

@EvaHarknessRose thanks, I'll see what mum says about getting help and I may call the HV as well

I think you would BVU to contact her health visitor - that wouldn't be the supportive thing to do. She's a bit stressed and sometimes saying stressed things, that doesn't mean she's abusing her child! I agree with PP that you could try supporting her as a person more, asking how she is etc and being nice...rather than nagging or worse, "modelling" good parenting as you said. Have you considered that she's more snappy at baby during your visits because your attitude is getting her back up? It's a possibility. Especially, as you point out, she is partly financially dependent on you and other family. I feel very very sorry for her with you and your other sister gossiping and judging her.

*you and your sister and your mum! Poor thing, she's an adult, go talk to her herself rather than discussing her with everyone else behind her back!

@Umberta I think you are being incredibly harsh. OP is clearly looking to help her sister and the baby and using a forum of mothers to ask for advice. If you can't be helpful why comment? She has clearly stated DSis has PND and recognised her also having a baby complicates matters because it almost rubs it in that she is coping better.

OP unfortunately I don't have any advice really but I wanted you to know I think you're being a lovely sister and Aunt and you're doing the right thing seeking advice. The sad truth is your sister is obviously struggling and unless she is being completely abusive there is not much more you can do than be supportive. I don't know what your relationship is like or childcare possibilities but I think it would be beneficial to take her out alone, just the two of you. Tell her about the hard bits for you, show her your struggles too and let her see you're not there perfect mother' either. If she thinks you e got it all together it will make it even harder for her to talk to you. I had a friend with a baby the same time as me and she was my lifeline. We cried together, laughed together and genuinely shared the stress of early parenting. Your sister will need that outlet and to know it's normal to find it hard. Best of luck. X

I love my son with everything I am. I don't shout at him or find him a hard baby. I still call him a penis/dick. It's what I do to most people and just how I speak. I'm very warm with him though and he's a very clingy, wonderful boy. I'm not trying to be hurtful or upset him, I just talk differently.

She may also be struggling to form a bond with her son? For me it was instant, but it might not be for her?

The baby's a bit young to be casually insulted! I hope you or someone tells your sister off. The baby is too young to understand the words but will know the angry tone of voice!

The shouting his name isn't nice at all, but babies really can be dicks.

I may have sounded harsh, yes, but I strongly believe that if you contact her HV then she will see that as you "reporting" her as if she is abusing her child. You will alienate her for good, and she will be justified in not trusting you. Also, if it were me, I would much rather my sister come and talk to me and offer to help rather than discussing me with my mum and goodness knows who else. Why not go to her and say "dear sis, is there anything I can do to help you?" She may say yes, and give you specific suggestions. Reporting her for being stressed to her HV, gossiping with your mum and other sis, all of those things are not helpful. @shouldhavecalleditoatabix you may not agree with me but that doesn't make my suggestions invalid or necessarily unhelpful. As you say, OP has asked for our opinion and I have given mine, and you have given yours.

@Umberta I wasn't asking AIBU I only said I may speak to HV which is how I felt this morning reading the replies, I don't think the baby's being abused, I didn't say I was modelling good parenting just the showing how I'd speak to a baby.

I wanted to know if her way was normal/ ok and I'm a softy for my approach. Do I need to stop being uncomfortable about it? That's why I've spoken to my sister about it, she doesn't like it either. This morning our mum says that she hears it too and she doesn't know why they speak to him like that but I'm reality isn't likely to say anything. We don't know how to deal with the PND, we've all missed the signs and we need help to help her.

I have called my baby a dick, when he was tiny and sharted in my face, when he pee'd up the wall on an almost daily basis for a while, by grabbing his willy and seemingly aiming it , but not once he was more than a few months old and always with a smile and a laugh and usually to my DH rather than to the baby. I'd be concerned about the general tone of her communication with him and that of her partner

I've seen women on programmes like teen mom "telling off" little babies when they are fussy.

Makes me very very cross as it's obviously completely wrong It sounds like your sister is really struggling. I know her needs need to be addressed but it is very hard not to focus on the poor little one in this situation. Imagine being a tiny vulnerable little one and having no one to rely on but 2 idiots who keep fucking telling you to shut up like you are doing something wrong :(

Sorry for the visceral response. I'm 36 weeks pregnant myself so am feeling extra sensitive. But I would have to say something to someone about this. If you feel HV is too formal (not saying it is btw), could you communicate with your parents?

And just to clarify my disgust isn't at using words like Dick to describe a baby, everyone gets angry and frustrated and I've muttered "for fuck sake stop it" etc thousands of times I'm sure!

It's more to do with her interaction with him and the effect it has on him. Tiny babies shouldn't be left to cry or punished for crying or fussing. It's that behaviour that is worrying. She could be soothing him softly by singing "go to sleep you little shit" and that wouldn't bother me at all. It's the nature of the interactions and reacting to queues from the baby that are crucial to his wellbeing and it sounds like both parents are lacking the ability to provide him with that emotional warmth and support at the moment.

@CloudyVanilla from talking yesterday our parents won't say anything. I think we're all a bit clueless on how to deal the the PND so will we upset her? Does that matter?! I'm prepared to be ousted from the family to save the emotional well-being of the baby. Maybe I just need to do it, either tell her or tell the HV. I might be a bull in a china shop though

Does she go out with the baby enough that she/mum/sis might think the call to the HV was from a member of the public? I think it's better to err on the side of caution and call.

If your family all do nothing then they are colluding in what is very likely to turn into the emotional abuse of a child. I’m sorry for your situation op but I would without doubt be speaking to her HV. You can’t stand by and see a tiny helpless baby be treated in this way.

Your sister may have PND but there is zero excuse for the way she is dealing with her baby. I can’t believe people on here are defending her. Do people really think that parents treating a baby like that now will improve as the child gets bigger and more wilful?