No idea what to do with DS (12) Dreading the summer holidays.

[sugarbum]

DS is 12. He has always been 'tricky' (which is code for really hard work)

He has never liked days out /activities and he has never had a close friendship with anyone. FWIW I believe him to be on the spectrum, but his headteacher disagreed with me and basically said that if the child is not a disruptive at school (he isn't - he is a daydreamer and says quiet) then they won't get referrred.

When he was little, we could take him to a park/soft play at least, and that would distract him for an hour or two. These days, its a major operation to get him to leave the house.

He's in the midst of puberty, which means he's even more hard work than usual as in sulky, flies off the handle at the slightest thing, rude, lazy etc etc. He is low in confidence and I don't think this helps matters. He has zero empathy and does not care about the effect his behaviour has on anyone. He blames everyone else for everything.

The ONLY thing he likes doing is playing roblox on his pc.
We limit his time, as his behaviour is worse the more he is on this, however he doesn't know what to do with himself. He won't go down the park. He doesn't have friends (he has alienated himself from the only one he did have by ignoring him when he came round)
He makes days out miserable for everyone with his whingeing so we rarely bother as a family now and one of us just takes the youngest (DS9)

We feel he is too old (and too big) for holiday clubs - what would be ideal is something directed at his age group but they all tend to be 5-12 and he hates being stuck with smaller kids (he is considerably larger than the average 12 year old at 5ft 8 and built like a tank so he is very conspicuous) I know there are the pgl type 'holidays' but I don't think sending him away will beneficial to him even though we could do with the break. He has a school residential (2 days) coming up and he is dreading it, but we have put our foot down about that one. I am praying that he will enjoy some of it at least.

I honestly don't know what to do with him. He literally dislikes doing everything, and finds a problem/fault with anything we suggest. Nor is he a child who 'likes it when he gets there'. He doesn't. Ever.

I don't even know what I'm asking for. Advice on how to cope. Advice on how to handle him. Advice on what the hell to do with him come the summer?

sugarbum he may be managing ok for now by masking at school, but when the workload cranks up towards GCSE, that's when a lot of undiagnosed kids fall apart.

Please reconsider starting the assessment process now, the NHS waitlist is a long one, around 2 years in some areas.
www.autism.org.uk/about/diagnosis/children.aspx

This link explains autism very well and highlights the areas that may well be overlooked by people who think a child is "high functioning" because they appear to be able to cope.

theaspergian.com/2019/05/04/its-a-spectrum-doesnt-mean-what-you-think/

Have you tried a fishing club?
It's a quiet activity with a small group of other quiet children/teens.

With regards to the courses try talking about them and then stepping back for 24 hours.
My dd, while different to your ds is very much not one for trying new things especially with people she doesn't know. Her first response to anything out of her comfort zone is to say no. But I am Learning that she often comes round to an idea once she's had time to process it and mull it over.

Your DS sounds extremely similar to my DD (12.) She is diagnosed ADHD but we suspect ASD too. Her only interests are Korean boy bands and watching said boy bands on YouTube. She will talk about then nonstop 24/7 if allowed and it's bloody tiring! Plus her NT sister (10) isn't allowed a word in edgewise.

I am literally dreading this summer. We've had our holiday already this year, so I'm facing 6 weeks of having to keep them occupied and not kill each other or wind up broke. DD10 is like a puppy who needs to be walked every day, while DD12 is (by her own admission) the laziest person she knows. We're going to have to find a good balance between screen time and outdoor time. I'm thinking maybe we can sit down each Sunday and make a plan for the week ahead, where they both get to choose an activity (this will be v tricky for DD12 as she literally has no interest in anything non-Korean.) I'm going to start drawing up a list of things for them to choose from that they can add to.

Sorry I don't have any words of wisdom for you OP, except to say please approach your HT again, armed with as much evidence as you can find about kids who mask at school. I find it virtually impossible to believe that one person who is not your DS's parent is allowed the authority to stop you seeking a diagnosis. It's absolutely appalling!! If the school had been in charge of my DDs diagnosis we'd be in the same position as you. Fight for your child's right! (And good luck this summer!)

@MaggieMagpie357 is there any mileage in other Korean things? Could you take her to an Oriental supermarket and get her to cook a Korean dish? Or get her to try some Korean martial art form? Or learn the language? Anything other than boy band on a loop.

@growlingbear yes definitely, we have suggested the martial arts thing but she's so self conscious about her lack of physical ability she won't take it any further at the moment. But I will definitely add cooking Korean food to the list - thank you! I wonder if there are any Korean shops etc we can visit too.......

@growlingbear again you've hit the nail on the head with your analogy.
We have an eeyore and a tigger in the house. And its hard as a family especially in the long holidays, because eeyore doesn't want to go outside and play in the sun and that's all that tigger wants to do. It doesn't mean eeyore is unhappy with being in the house. He is difficult and moodswingy, and it makes life difficult for the rest of the family, but not for him. He is coping just fine. He comes back from school these days and says it was 'ok'. This is extremely positive feedback for him.

My issue as I said in the OP, was that I don't want him to spend long long stretches hidden in his room on his pc, because that not healthy for him, even though that's what he wants to do. I also don't want him to feel that he's being left out of everything (even if he wants to be left out and has asked to ) because he's still only 12 years old and needs us around even if he thinks he doesn't.

I need distractions for him for at least some of the time. And I need to let him know about them in advance which is why I'm asking now. (and thanks to all for some great suggestions) so yes @user1494670108 I agree, I have printed out a list of the courses still available for him to look at as his initial reaction was no as I knew it would be.

@ThePhoenixRises no he wont fish. He doesn't understand the point so it would be 'wasting his time' (his words not mine)

Thanks BlankTimes for the links, the second one in particular is great.

I too have a 'tricky' child.... but I think that label is unhelpful ultimately as it is so negative. My DS has been diagnosed with a number of things... but ultimately I strongly expect he will get diagnosed with ASD with PDA presentation alongside the other issues... which all intersect in any case.

DS also does very well at school... and masks exceptionally well but kicks off when he is at home (but is calm during the holidays with less demands made upon him). His school would have have had him assessed... and it was very hard work getting to the point of diagnosis thought the GP etc. but the school/head/senco are supportive now and plans have been put in place to help him.

It is really important for my child to know that they aren't 'tricky' and that they are neurodiverse and we need to help them live with and recognise/manage the challenges and thrive where there are strengths (and there are strengths!).

Confidence and self-esteem are a huge problem, and I would be very concerned that your son, without proper support and understanding, will end up with other health issues, mental or physical.

I have seen how a diagnosis has transformed someone's life... albeit in their 40's. After a painful period of reconciliation with the new knowledge, finally their life made sense... and more importantly they didn't feel like they were failing over and over again anymore and the self critical voices became more supportive of their differences and different needs.

We have to work very hard to stop out DS going on computers all the time and have to change our approach over and over again. In the summer the deal is that you earn screen time through doing other activities and some tasks... but we make sure that they are actually achievable so that we can build on his confidence.

I meant to say his school would never have had him assessed!

My ds 2 is 13. He’s high functioning austic. He loves nothing better than being at home but then gets board. I used to ask what he wanted to do instead. He wouldn’t have a clue. So now I tell him we are going out, either for a walk ( beach or hills), swimming or to the shops.
He has however in the last year started really enjoying plane spotting. So I’m now there regularly with the other spotters . I find it as dull as dishwater, but he’s really happy with the nerds!!! I take a book an a thermos!!!
He also loves navy cadets. He loves the routine of marching ( out of all the things they do this is his favourite thing in the world!). So now I can take him to the maritime museum!!!
Good luck . Sending you 💐 , 🍷 and 🍫

@Xeroxarama. Yes, I do include phones. Mine are supposed to put they'd in a box in the kitchen and only have them if they ask me. This does slide and then I introduce confiscation for 24 hours if I catch them on it without asking. Definitely no phones in bedrooms. It's SO addictive. I know nectar I'm always on mine . I do let them have it mostly when they ask though eg. 30 mins before dinner.

Daily physical exercise would be good - an hours walking or a trip to a trampoline park or climbing wall maybe?

Does he like animals?

How about cooking a family meal?

Would he be happier if you build him a routine for the holidays?

Eg up by 10, chores from 10-11, screen time 11-12, lunch 12 - 12.30, walk 12.30 - 1.30, quiet rest but no screens 1.30 -2.30 etc

Maybe every Wednesday could be a fun family outing and he and his brother could take turns choosing this.

@snog yes I agree. However getting him to do exercise is another thing entirely. I find taking him into town via car and then boring him to death with shopping often gives him the incentive to walk home just to get away, but other than that he refuses :)
He has football training once a week at least. Which he reluctantly goes to. He doesn't love it, but he does it. I know there's kids on his team that often kick about in the park (its only five minutes away) but again, getting him down there is like pulling teeth. He doesn't like the socialising bit.

He doesn't like animals at all, no. No interest.
I have tried to get him to cook in the past. He has shown little interest in repeating this, but I think I should reintroduce it. He needs to learn. I might check the local leisure centres as they sometimes do stuff over the summer. But it does tend to aim towards younger kids.

@snog ideally yes, but the problem really with the summer hols is that I'm not always there. I don't work Wednesdays so I am there all day and I agree, family outing once a week. We have a national trust card but he detests being traipsed around 'boring farms and trees and stuff' I can only get him to any of these places with the promise of ice-creams and snacks :) We have some great woodland areas near us, and he used to be kept occupied for a little while at least making dens, but he won't do that any more. There are some excellent bushcraft courses too, but they are for younger kids. might see if I can find something else along that line.

I have booked holiday so that he is never home alone for a whole day, only from say 8 - 12.30 when DH can get home for a lunchbreak and make sure DS1 eats 'real food', and then I get back to take over at 1.30 with the youngest (who goes to a kids club type thing near where I work) He wont stick to anything if I'm not physically present. Even if I'm calling him to remind him.

Then the issue I then have is that DS2 is knackered from all the activities he's done on the morning, and wants to chill and watch TV, but I need DS1 to do something that isn't pc or tv, but I can't leave DS2 on his own.

If he likes STEM type stuff OP, how about joining a Code Club. Lots of libraries run them. I used to run one at my son's primary school. They're run by the Raspberry Pi foundation and have lots of interesting coding projects to try out: www.codeclub.org

Or perhaps build a Tamiya car and then take it out racing? Tamiya They aren't cheap kits but they take ages to build and are complex and fun. My son did this one summer and really enjoyed the challenge.

Or get him playing Pokémon Go. That will get him out of the house

Tricky. Could you get DS to go for a one hour walk from 11-12 and check from his phone records that he has actually done this. If he hasn't then switch off the WIFI for the rest of the day?

I have a 12 year old ASD boy - would go to nursery but since then no school clubs / lessons. He will go to David Lloyd if I go with him and go swimming with me but not currently members as its expensive. He loves animals so we do that from time to time. He will go to cinema and bowling though cinema never feels like much of an improvement.

Refuses national trust as that's for old people though did go when younger. Sometimes can get him on boats. He likes cooking biscuits and cakes. Hope you can find something. Does he like numbers? Mine does and on holiday he loved bingo, would sit waiting from 2pm for the 8pm bingo game and we would have to explain it was 6 hours later

Mine also likes ziplining - would do something like Go Ape though its really pricey.

I appreciate this may not be feasible and you would obviously have to have/adapt household set up to encompass having one forever but have you considered getting a dog. Our dog is the biggest blessing for our 3 but in terms of tricky teens, she has been fantastic for the now 14 year old. He has been made responsible for a number of her walks, for feeding, training etc. She can do a number of weird tricks! It makes it easier to get them all out into the forest or to the beach and in the summer holidays teen is responsible for at least one of her walks each day. She is fantastic at calming them if they are stressed and just lies next to them somehow helping to ease that teenage angst and awkwardness which parent cannot do . And our laughter and enjoyment of dog’s crazy antics unites us as a family when the rest of family life is too uncool for teen!
Other ideas with my difficult teen are making chores more appealing - making him responsible for cooking a family meal - immense pride when he does it and whole family eats his tuna pasta bake and salad. Similarly if he builds an ikea flat pack or mows the whole lawn he gets a sense of achievement. It can be exhausting setting projects that are doable and he’s willing to engage in but if he isn’t into summer camps and group courses it seem mean to foist them on him. Productive activities interspersed with screen time could make the summer bearable.

My other thought is, is there anything he gets sensory pleasure from that you could incorporate?

My DS can't swim that well but loves putting his head under the water.... so I can take him swimming and he will spend an hour swimming underwater and bobbing about. He also really likes the feeling of abseiling... so loves going to a clip and climb type place because he will climb to the top just to jump down. He won't go bouldering though as he isn't getting the same sensory hit.

Does he like the beach? Mine likes digging at the beach, bit of a trek from Cambridge.

My dd loves digging in the sand even at 13. I caught him buying his trainers and then carefully 'excavating' them.

What makes the headteacher think she/he is a qualified psychologist?

I would really push for someone to asses him. Have you taken him to the gp about his issues? You may be able to get a referral through that route. He certainly sounds as if he struggles in everyday situations, which could be why he’s not enjoying anything.

Would he enjoy independent/quiet activities? If he likes the cinema you could buy him a monthly pass or something (slightly better than him being stuck on a game all day). Does he enjoy working with his hands- you could try getting him a coding programme? Lego? Maybe focus on inside activities for now.

No sand no. Its too messy.
Climbing is ok for a short time (as in climbing walls), but he finds it quite painful on his hands because he's so hefty. He doesn't really like rope courses/go ape type things
Boats - he doesn't see the point.
He isn't really into modelling/building. We tried that route.
No dog. Its not going to happen. DH is not an animal person.
No swimming. Germs in water. He miraculously can cope with the germs if there are substantial slides, but that's definitely special day out territory.
The old headteacher at primary is a SENCO. I have not pursued it during year 7. We were concentrating on getting him settled in his new school and he has adjusted very well although it was quite traumatic for him to start with (as it is for many kids moving to a secondary). He gets the train to school now and its taken him all year to accept that sometimes, quite often in fact, trains don't arrive exactly when the timetable says they will. But he is doing it and we're very proud of him.

Again, yes we have seen the GP. He cannot refer without the schools say so. That's how it works here. I'm sure we could get a private assessment.

The point of the thread is to find things to occupy him though. And so far I'm really grateful for all the suggestions.

Will he do anything in the garden? Trampoline, balls, swingball, etc - mine loves a ball. Won' play football with people but all balls small and large are worshipped.

Chlorine in water should kill all the germs, sounds like may have ocd too. Parkside has couple of slides I think. There is a Cambridge Aqua Park now too - obviously not chlorinated water but like an assault course in water.