No idea what to do with DS (12) Dreading the summer holidays.

[sugarbum]

DS is 12. He has always been 'tricky' (which is code for really hard work)

He has never liked days out /activities and he has never had a close friendship with anyone. FWIW I believe him to be on the spectrum, but his headteacher disagreed with me and basically said that if the child is not a disruptive at school (he isn't - he is a daydreamer and says quiet) then they won't get referrred.

When he was little, we could take him to a park/soft play at least, and that would distract him for an hour or two. These days, its a major operation to get him to leave the house.

He's in the midst of puberty, which means he's even more hard work than usual as in sulky, flies off the handle at the slightest thing, rude, lazy etc etc. He is low in confidence and I don't think this helps matters. He has zero empathy and does not care about the effect his behaviour has on anyone. He blames everyone else for everything.

The ONLY thing he likes doing is playing roblox on his pc.
We limit his time, as his behaviour is worse the more he is on this, however he doesn't know what to do with himself. He won't go down the park. He doesn't have friends (he has alienated himself from the only one he did have by ignoring him when he came round)
He makes days out miserable for everyone with his whingeing so we rarely bother as a family now and one of us just takes the youngest (DS9)

We feel he is too old (and too big) for holiday clubs - what would be ideal is something directed at his age group but they all tend to be 5-12 and he hates being stuck with smaller kids (he is considerably larger than the average 12 year old at 5ft 8 and built like a tank so he is very conspicuous) I know there are the pgl type 'holidays' but I don't think sending him away will beneficial to him even though we could do with the break. He has a school residential (2 days) coming up and he is dreading it, but we have put our foot down about that one. I am praying that he will enjoy some of it at least.

I honestly don't know what to do with him. He literally dislikes doing everything, and finds a problem/fault with anything we suggest. Nor is he a child who 'likes it when he gets there'. He doesn't. Ever.

I don't even know what I'm asking for. Advice on how to cope. Advice on how to handle him. Advice on what the hell to do with him come the summer?

I like the idea of no screens before lunch- would you include phones @MerryMarigold?

Oh scrap the canoe idea then! I do feel for you. If he was happy staying in that's one thing, it's ok to be anti social, but it's so hard when they are miserable with it.

Pokemon Go is a good suggestion, mine doesn't seem to use too much data, although it does need some and can use the battery quite a lot.

thanks all for suggestions. I'm going to talk to him tonight about the tech courses in Cambridge and see if any of them appeal to him. I need to look at geocaching when I get home.

He isn't interested in building tech as such - we tried getting him a Kano and it was wasted money.

We restrict computer time. At weekends he has an hour in the morning. Then he gets anywhere from 2-4 hours later on (2 by default but he can earn more)

It's so tricky. No advice but I suspect dd (ASD diagnosed) will go through at least 4 weeks of the holiday without seeing anyone her own age :( She's very lonely.

I think the summers they are 12-13 are the hardest. They are going through puberty and living on knife edge emotions, filled with embarassment and hatred of their bodies, socially inept and lethargic. I know some little darlings run off happily to football clubs all summer but ours didn't.

I'd sit down with him after tea one night and discuss the summer with him. Talk about how long it is and ask what ideas he has for breaking it up so he won't get bored. I got my DC to make bucket lists - it didn't matter how small an idea was (or how much I didn't like the sound of it) I just got them to write it all down. Anything from making their own ice cream to going zorbing. It can be a fantasy list of money-no-object because that can sometimes show up patterns of interest.

Even if it has only three dull things on it, that's a start.
Tell him you'd like to take him out on three treat days and they can be anything he likes - so you could look for gaming expos or you could offer him a chance for a make over before he goes back to school - new haircut, clothes and school bag (my two loved that idea at that age as they so desperately wanted to be someone other than who they were.)
You could insist that he sets himself some challenges. One could be to choose a one week summer school in drama or music or tennis or similar. (I wangled DS2 onto a music summer school for 14+ which he was much happier about than being the oldest in a play scheme - it's possible if you ask around.)

But if he wants a summer all to himself allow it. I think that chrysalis age is really important. The summer they spend under a duvet when the sun is shining outside because they just don't know what to do with themselves. It's quite important to let them do a lot of that at this age. Just say that he has to agree to three hours a day of doing something so that he can look back on the summer and be proud of what he achieved. DS2 got fit. He is dyspraxic with a physical disability but we got some good gym equipment free from free cycle and worked out a 10 mins a day plan for him. We went swimming, cycling or walking every day, building up the swims to a personal challenge of a kilometre. By the end of the summer he had muscle definition he was proud of. That gave him the confidence to get a trendy haircut and some new clothes and he went into Year 8 feeling a bit brighter about himself.

Forgot to add, DS2 has ASD. I think the school has no right to only check him out if he's disruptive. It could be really helpful to him to get a diagnosis. Nothing 'wrong' with having ASD, it's just a different way fo handling the world and it helps everyone if you know that';s what he has and why neurotypical ideas and suggestions fall on deaf ears.

What about Minecraft? The shops have areas to paint characters and boards set up to play. They can be a great place to do side by side socialising?
Comicom or Larping have a similar vibe. Having a specific subject to talk about like Manga can be very inclusive and affirming.

I havent tried it but just saved an article with apps to get yiur kids outdoors. Theres one called Zombies! Run! Which sounds along the lines of pokemon go. It also recommends starwalk and geocaching.

No advice but I think this age is really difficult for a lot of kids, great tips on this thread though, I'm determined DS will get out and about this summer!

Would love some links to the cambridge courses, please! I have a 13yr ds the same!

@growlingbear thank you that was really helpful. Actually I was toying with the idea of getting a full size punchbag (not just for him!) and doing some training with him. He looks at DH like he's mad when he suggests going running (to be fair, that's probably because DH owns running shoes that are still unworn, in spite of having had them since DS1 was a baby)

I also like the idea of bucket lists. He won't be able to come up with anything to start with. I know this :) So I think I need to make up my own list to prompt him!

He isn't interested in his looks wrt clothing/hair/accessories. However I'll see if there are any comic/gaming conventions about (he isn't into comics but who knows - the only thing I can discuss with him is our appreciation of marvel films LOL)

@MeltedCrayons, someone upthread suggested www.firetechcamp.com/courses/day_camps/ which are held at Hills Road 6th form. Bit of a pain to get him to, but DH works in Bar Hill, so if its just for a week, he can probably arrange with work to wangle his hours to get DS1 there.

Sounds a bit like my DS (Aspergers).
He is going to holiday club one or two days a week in the weeks we’re not off, but it’s 8+ and quite cool with zip wire etc.

We're starting to face this issue with 11 year old with ASD. She's getting too old for our fabulous childminder but will happily go to forest school holiday camp. She won't do anything sport related at al. I'm surprised you have to get a referral for diagnosis through school. I went to the GP direct here and they referred to child development centre. It's so well known that loads of kids on the spectrum mask at school (not our girl but that's another story).

It sounds like you are managing fine without a diagnosis but there lots of positives to getting one. My daughter is proud of her diagnosis despite the frustrations. She has autistic friends and feels part of a tribe. We as a family can understand her better as well.

OP, you can build the bucket list from what he already likes. If he loves Marvel films, maybe he could make a blog or vlog about them or write a review of some of them and send it to an existing Marvel blog to see if they'd publish it.
Or he could have a filmathon and watch every film from a series. (I want to watch every Hitchock film at some stage.) I know it may seem like encouraging him to stare at screens and get no exercise, but actually it's introducing him in a non threatening way to setting himself goals and projects and entertaining himself. I feel for them aged twelve. It's such an ungainly stage of life. I remember it well!

I used to be a teacher and there are lots of resources available that you could tap into around Marvel films! ( and other subjects too). you would need to check the age appropriateness ( quickly scan through)

for example

or this

These are just ideas but there are lots of things you could engage with in there.

@defconone yes I know its ridiculous. As you said, many kids mask at school, but I think he is doing ok as he is and I know you said your DD is proud of her diagnosis, but I suspect DS would feel like we were telling him there was something 'wrong' with him (he sees things very negatively - part of his insecurities and lack of confidence). So I haven't pursued it. He already has massive issues thinking we prefer his brother (yes DS2 is easier to live with in many ways, apart from the messiness, but we try very hard not to show favouritism)

Im trying to get him to do more drawing as well. He enjoys it, but then beats himself up afterwards because what he's done is rubbish. It isn't of course, but thats how he thinks. So maybe I need to see if there are any arty type things going on also, for tweens.

Thanks for the links @Sooverthemill

@growlingbear we're going to see the new spiderman film on Sunday. I will see if he thinks he can write a review on it. I don't know if he'd do a vlog as he is self conscious about his face (its a beautiful face, but a tween face so pretty spotty right now) but maybe we can set up a blog of some kind so he can write stuff if he wants to.

Proud maybe isn't the right word. Proud of herself and not ashamed of her diagnosis. It makes her kinder to herself when she struggles with things because she isn't imaging that she finds some things harder, she really is finding them harder than most of her peers IYSWIM. We don't say there is something wrong, just that she is a bit different and that is OK.

If he has low self-esteem and negative thoughts could he be referred to CAMHS? I know people say there's a long list but I went on a course they do for parents where they said they can see someone in 2-6 weeks, the difficulty they often have is with woeful referral forms that don't tell them enough to properly triage. If a school says or GP says, 'feeling low' they can't imagine what is going on. They were happy for parents to write supporting information. They have different options from counselling to CBT to referrals for ASD assessment/other. FWIW, I'm trying to wangle an interest in upcycling, I find they like to see things transform at that age and if it could be (cheaply) sold that's an achievement.

Does he like problem solving if he's into tech stuff? Could you try going to an escape room as a family?

@DefConOne I don't mean to suggest that you say there's something wrong with dd, and I would never say that to ds. It's just his take on it. I understand what you're saying and I'm so glad your dd can view it in that way. I'm not sure he could. But then, he could surprise us.
@straysocks he does have low self esteem but I don't think he has negative thoughts as such ( in the sense I think you're suggesting, I may be wrong), he's just a negative person. That's the way he has always been. glass nearly empty. It's his personality. He has pretty much told us from day 1 who he is. not in words obviously. And we have spen t so much time and energy trying to do happy family days out etc but to no avail. I want him to be happy and not to have him feel like we're always against him but it's hard work. Because his 'happy' is all day on pc. And as a parent I can't accept that as being the best for his wellbeing. Not at 12. As I said previously though, gp not able to refer without school. He is not unhappy. He Just is as he is.
@artichokeaardvark escape room possibly. It's one of those things that could go either way 😀

I hear you, we're their witness. Still think referral may lead to another path that could be worth exploring.

Is the info about the referral directly from CAMHS? They're health not education funded. I'd call them directly.

I would be careful about CAHMS referral, unless there is serious concern. All teens experience intense mood swings as a normal part of hormone shifts. It's important imo not to pathologise a normal range of emotions. There's tremendous pressure on teens to be happy 24/7 and anything less is a problem. Let him know that mood swings are normal at his age and show him ways to climb out of them through exercise, humour, healthy eating, small, relatively easy goal setting or fun projects. of course if these don't help then there is an underlying problem, but I'm not sure a teenager struggling with self esteem (don't they all?) will feel better if he's told he may have mental health issues just because he's more Eyeore than Tigger.

Khan Academy is good. It's still inside on a PC stuff, but at least it's productive (you can work your way up to university level material). It's interested my screen-obsessed 10yo.