Missing Children

[Scared]

I don't know about anyone else, but the latest story of the two missing girls just terrifies me. I don't want to turn into one of these mothers who won't let their child out of their sight, but think that it is a distinct possibility.

I tend to look at the parents of children who go missing and wonder how they let it happen, but I know that it wasn't their fault really. It's just the unfairness of life that allows a child to wander off when the parent looks away for a second.

I watched a programme on James Bulger, and it broke my heart. I still cry when I see news articles about the killers being released. It scares me for my ds. I know I would never get over it if anything ever happened to him. I don't think that I would want to carry on living if it did.

As a child I went through a stage where I was really obsessed with strangers, because we had a 'funny' man (weird euphamism) outside our school gates offering money to girls. I wouldn't go anywhere on my own, and it reached a stage where my mum despaired about me. I still worry about being out on my own in certain situations.

Anyway, I guess that I am asking how people on this site have ensured the safety of their children, without making them scared of everyone in the town!

Jbr - I assume that you were referring to my comments in one of your previous responses. If not, please excuse/ignore my reply.

I wasn't saying it is 'worse' for a woman to kill anyone. I was saying that I can't get my head round a woman wanting to kill any child (because we are genetically predisposed to care for children), and that the girls must have thought that they were safe, because a woman was there.

It is repellant to me that ANYONE would want to kill a child (or anyone else for that matter). I hope that this is clearer to read.

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I feel the word 'rare' is incorrect in these circumstances - rare is something that only happens once in a lifetime. I can think of more than 3 instances of this in mine alone. I agree, this kind of thing is appalling and thankfully 'rare' and only because of the advance in communication technologies are so many people informed of a single event simultaneously. Statistically one might say rare, but the act of abducting a child and then murdering them is not what I would term 'rare' these days. However, this crime done by a woman, probably is. I hope always to be shocked by it.

Disgust seems pretty strong. What word would you use to describe the murderers?

the thing i find really scary is that we all tell our kids not to go with strangers but these people were known by the girls and in trusted positions in schools,if this can be done by people in this position we really cant feel safe at all.Friends of ours had a close relative murdered at xmas time,she was also raped by the man concerned but at the trial he was not convicted of the rape on some technicality,so when he comes out of jail he will be a convicted murderer but will not have any kind of sexual offence record,could these people have something like this in their history which wouldnt have shown up in any cro check.

Police checks are only going to say if you have been convicted (not accused of anything). I understand that he had been accused of rape and not been found guilty ???? That would explain it if he came clear at the police check.... or maybe I am completely wrong !

I mean rare as in statistically extremely, vanishingly unlikely to happen to your child. I think the statistics are around 6 child murders a year committed by those not related to the child. There are millions of children in Britain, so, yes, I do think it is rare. Horrific yes, but rare. And not more likely than in previous generations, thankfully. Naturally, I'm not suggesting anyone should be casual about their child's safety, but at least 4 young children have been killed near me in the last few weeks by various traffic accidents, including a bus that mounted the pavement killing a 4-year-old child who was with his mother, and another that was struck by an 18-year-old hit and run driver. That makes me feel more unsafe than abductions by random psychopaths.

I strongly disagree that women are "naturally" bound to care for children but that's for another time.

Chinchilla you are not alone in finding it particularly hard to get your head around the idea of a woman killing a child.
I feel the same way.

SueW , glad it's not just me who didn't understand about the phone thing. Surely the charge would have run down?
And that whole business about "giving the abductor till midnight to contact the police" - then what? They would not take his call after that? What was that all about?

I watched the News at Ten tonight, to see whether they had positively identified these poor girls. After seeing the statement by the police that the family wanted the press to leave their town, I was then appalled to see them interviewing a young girl who had been friends with one of the girls. Dh and I turned the tv off. I haven't really followed this thread and the debate about the role the media plays in this horrific event, but I felt it was totally inappropriate to be interviewing a 10 year old girl, after the murder of her friend. Not only for the girl being interviewed but imagine how those poor parents must feel if they were watching. Why are they showing this and all the people leaving flowers at the church? I REALLY hope the media show some respect for these families and bugger off and let them grieve in peace.

Thank you Jasper - I appreciate your support.

Jbr - we can discuss this now. I believe that women are genetically predisposed to care for their own child. Did your body not change when you were pg? Did you not feel an instant bond when you held your baby for the first time? This, as you will know, is caused by female hormones, which are in all women. My dh told me that he did not bond with ds immediately, and that he felt that it was because he had not carried ds, or had his body changed because of hormones and pregnancy.

OK, some women do not feel any desire to have children, but most feel, at some time in their life, their 'biological clock' ticking. Again, hormones. Is it not logical to then surmise that women are designed with these hormones to protect their child, and that this, in turn, would make them less likely to harm any child?

I appreciate that this is only my opinion, not proven empirically, and that you are entitled to your own opinion

ps I also appreciate that I sound REALLY pompous!

What can we suggest as a remedy to this? How can we protect our children from this? I guess the answer has to be that we cannot. I find that incredibly depressing.

Chinchilla, I have always had a problem with 'bonding'. I was adopted by my parents when I was six weeks old, and am sure that many parents on here have adopted babies, I beleive that I had a closer relationship with my parents than many of my contempories, but never had the instant bonding thatis so often talked of, and going from personal experience, I had no instant feelings for my dd when she was born but it was the immediate love at first sight thing when ds1 appeared, yet I feel equally close to them both now. I really feel that a bond between parent and child does not have to be biological and also does not have to happen in the minutes (or even days or weeks) following birth. Sorry, just read that back and it sounds a bit opinionated, but it is something that due to my experiences I feel strongly about!

I am also more shocked that a woman has been involved in this crime as I do beleive that women have a strong animal instinct to protect not only their biological young but also the young of others to whom they have an attchment. Therfore the fact that this woman was in a position of trust with these poor girls and then committed this heinous crime is totally abhorrent to any right thinking adult.

Further to Chinchilla's post, after I had my first baby several women said to me something along the lines of "funny when you become a mum you become a mum not just to your own child but to every other child in the world".
I know just what they mean.I definately feel protective towards ALL children and have discussed this with friends who feel the same way.
I have never considered myself particularly "maternal" but I do know If I see a distressed child in a supermarket who is obviously lost I will imediately feel protective towards it and help it to find its parent, but usually some other female shopper will get there before me! I have always felt this way, but more so since I had children.
It goes without saying I am speaking in generalised terms - lots of men are very protective of kids and plently of women don't care for children much at all.
This is hardly a scientific study, just an observation,but I don't see men in supermarkets rushing to the aid of lost children very often.

But Jasper, isn't that because they're scared to? My dad told me of a time he saw a child crying in a supermarket, just as you describe, and he was very reluctant to approach him/her in case people thought the wrong thing. Obviously, he called a member of staff to deal with it, but he's not the only man I know who has either been in this type of situation, or has worried about what they would do.

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Interesting, there's actually quite a lot of scientific evidence that women are designed to bond with/care for children (not just their own). For example, when people without children are shown pictures of babies women's pupils dilate (a sign of pleasure and love in humans) but men's pupils don't. Women produce oxytocin (the bonding/love hormone) in response to non-sexual stroking, and when they stroke someone, men don't. The birth process also produces another rush of oxytocin in women. These are all deep, primal hormone responses which aren't socially conditioned. As a feminist, I think some feminism (like so many theories) just flies in the face of reason and common sense in some ways and this is one of them. Funnily enough, AFTER men have children of their own, their pupils also dilate at pictures of babies, and their hormone profile changes forever, but not before. This is why, I think, we are so very shocked by the possibility of women being involved in cold-blooded child killings.

We've just had a conversation at work which I suspect is similar to many occurring all over the country at the moment.

Now all I want to do is rush home and protect my children forever, but you can't, can you.

I feel such despair and my heart is absolutely breaking for the families and their girls.

But at least I can go home and hug my two and protect them as best I can.....

I'm so shocked that this teacher knew the children, she had been a part of their lives, they obviously liked her, yet she could so cold-bloodedly murder them, then make appeals for their safe return! Him too, he was looking for them in the early hours of Monday morning with one of the fathers, I bet he had already killed them by then. What evil there is in the world!

Commenting on the media sexualising children, I am quite shocked at times to see 9 and 10 year olds go out in little more than boob tubes and mini skirts - I mean who in their right minds would design these for children! They also have a range of thongs and padded bras for kids as young as 8! Paedophiles are forever justifiying their actions, they say it is us as a society who are wrong in criminalising their behaviour. Dressing our children in this way just gives them another excuse to carry out their vile actions.

I think we need to look at ourselves closely as a society and take responsibility for some of the things we do. That is the designers who dream up these skimpy children's clothes and make-up, the media who advertise them and the parents who buy them. Someone has got to stand up and say enough is enough, let our children be children, it is not normal for a child to wear a t-shirt saying fcuk, it's not witty or funny or cute to see a 9 year old girl wearing a crop top saying 'chick'. Aren't we guilty of just encouraging these vile paedophiles to prey on our innocents?

Finally, my prayers are with those families, and everyone involved. It was wrong of the police to give them so much hope of finding their daughters alive. I just hope lessons can be learnt and the murderers never get to see the light of day again.

Hear,hear Jasper you have voiced my sentiments exactly.I'm coming over to UK at the end of this week and will be having a chat with my 3 before we come.Unfortunately i alwys get nervous now in the uK even though I know that statistically these happenings are rare.

Many apologies I meant Rhubarb.