Missing Children

[Scared]

I don't know about anyone else, but the latest story of the two missing girls just terrifies me. I don't want to turn into one of these mothers who won't let their child out of their sight, but think that it is a distinct possibility.

I tend to look at the parents of children who go missing and wonder how they let it happen, but I know that it wasn't their fault really. It's just the unfairness of life that allows a child to wander off when the parent looks away for a second.

I watched a programme on James Bulger, and it broke my heart. I still cry when I see news articles about the killers being released. It scares me for my ds. I know I would never get over it if anything ever happened to him. I don't think that I would want to carry on living if it did.

As a child I went through a stage where I was really obsessed with strangers, because we had a 'funny' man (weird euphamism) outside our school gates offering money to girls. I wouldn't go anywhere on my own, and it reached a stage where my mum despaired about me. I still worry about being out on my own in certain situations.

Anyway, I guess that I am asking how people on this site have ensured the safety of their children, without making them scared of everyone in the town!

I think that Rhubarb raises a very important point. We are all inclined to be suspicious of someone who is different but most paedophiles are family or friends of the victim. Indeed, i believe that many spend as long as a year gaining the family's confidence and 'grooming' their victims. Also recently there have been raids co-ordinated across the world on people selling child pornography and most of the people arrested were the parents of the children involved.

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I have a book called 'Paranoid Parenting' by Frank Furedi.

I bought it specifically when I was pregnant, because I knew that I would be in danger of locking DS up when the time came for him to 'roam free'.

Good book, except that it doesn't really give you much info on how to instil knowledge into your child without scaring them half to death. Then again, I haven't read it all yet.

Glad you reported the incident to the police, lou33.

My sister and I came across someone in the park, hiding behind a tree, trousers undone and looking at 2 little girls.

We still reported it to the police, despite that fact that we had no concrete proof that he was actually doing anything other than having a pee,
but I would have felt very guilty if I had heard that something more sinister had taken place after we had left.

I don't think things have changed much - if at all. When I was a kid we all knew 'funny men' in the park who showed you their willies etc. Flashers were so comparatively normal that nobody I knew ever thought to mention them to their parents. I'm sure that paedophilia isn't some new psychological development, and the statistics on child abduction seem to bear this out. It's as rare as it ever was. It's still much better to be a child now than in the past. We have no kids up chimneys, they don't get beaten senseless at school and they don't tend to have rickets. My ds is only 10months and I do try not to be paranoid about him. I encourage him to wave at everyone! I suppose later on I will have to talk to him about personal safety but, I hope, without scaring him to death. The problem is, the fewer kids on the streets playing, the more obvious a lone kid is to a wierdo.

Another problem is we always assume it's only men!

littlesister - sorry, can't be more specific - dh heard it on the news this morning.

RobinW, my brother does sometimes make stuff up, as I said he thinks like a 7 year old. If someone were to ask him if he were married, he might say 'yes' as the question would throw him. This man may or may not be dodgy. But just because he is able to say that he is a scout leader and married does not prove it one way or the other. He may well be married and a scout leader, or he may be making it up. Adults with learning difficulties like to pretend that they are normal. They will make excuses for themselves and talk incessently about their imaginary lives, that's why lou33's description of him struck a chord.

I hope this doesn't offend you Lou33, I think you are right in taking this seriously. It is better to be certain of these things. When anxious parents knock at my mum's door asking about my brother we try to put them at ease, we understand their concern. It is just a possibility that there was something wrong with him, he still needs reporting though.

When I was little a man tried to get me and my next-door neighbour to get in his cab (he was a London taxi driver and at first I thought he was my uncle who also drove one). We were inside my garden gate and he asked us if we'd like a sweet, we said no and he drove off. I was worried that ther'd be a fuss and told my friend not to tell anyone but he told his mum and I really got a rocket for not telling anyone. I don't think my parents reported it which I now think was wrong, however much it might have upset me at the time.

However, I agree with aloha. With most paedophiles being known to their victims, as a parent I can either keep dd a prisoner or eventually I will have to take a risk. She might want to join a choir, take up football or swimming, even just go to a friend's for a sleep-over. Obviously I will have to do all that I can to minimise that risk and educate dd, but if I keep her 'safe' then she'll grow up to be terrified of the real world.

Those poor families though. How must their siblings be feeling?

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My dh had a problem yesterday when he took dd1 to her swimming lesson for the first time. All the children get changed in the girls' changing room, and that is where the teacher fetches them from, the boys' is kept locked (the children are all about 5 yrs old). Dd was told to ask daddy not to come into the changing room next time, "someone else" would have to help her. Personally, I find that ridiculous - why are mums allowed to "see" children of the opposite sex get changed, but dads not? Why are we supposed to rely on the kindness of strangers to help our daughter, and why should we be expected to trust them, when dh is not trusted to go into the changing room? I would understand it if the children were older, or if the mums were getting changed, but this just seems to be so arbitrary - "he's a man, only mums can be trusted"

Emieswill, yes, this does seems paranoid. But but but...I guess I would want to know who was allowed to be alone with my child although I would probably have been allowed in, wouldn't I? But what would dp have done? The only way I can see round this is for DH/DPs to get themselves police checked by social services.

It sounds extreme but at our local pre school we all had to be checked if we were going to be helping out or taking children to the loo. (Assume this is the case everywhere?) Therefore in that situation I could have said "well, I've been checked, here's my form to prove it" (they send you a copy too). I know, they probably wouldn't have asked me, they'd have probalby let me in as a mum, which does beg the question what are dads and partners supposed to do? and how do they know the mums and helpers are OK? I'm pretty sure anyone can get themselves checked but the form you fill in is a bit intrusive. I guess you could get away with not filling in all the questions tho (I objected to giving my bank details, since I didn't see how it was relevant). Any other suggestions anyone? I'd be unhappy I think if dp was asked to leave ds (especially if ds didn't want to be alone in a strange changing room).

I think you ought to complain to the management of the swimming pool saying that you, or rather your DH is being descriminated against. They should ensure that changing facilities are suitable for both sexes and that parents of either sex can supervise their own children - even if this means opening the male changing rooms. Lots of swimming pools now have mixed or family changing facilities and those that don't aren't addressing the needs of the modern family. Lots of men take their children swimming and lots of mums take boys of say 7 - 12 swimming but wouldn't want them to go into the men's changing rooms on their own though might be restricted due to age limits in womens changing. Make a stand - why should DD have to suffer?

I agree with PamT. Make a complaint. What are all the SAHDs supposed to do?

What an absolutely wrong and ridiculous situation. We have all gone mad! Of course he should be able to change his own child. Complain. This is stupid sexism. It's not as if he is changing other people's children or even looking after them, as in www's case. If men have to be police checked to take their own kids swimming, we have got ourselves into a sorry state. I really despair. Who is this 'someone else' he is supposed to trust with his daughter? What happens if the 'someone else' lets her roll onto the floor and hurt herself? Next thing we know, dads will be banned from swimming pools because some freaks get off on watching little babies in swimming costumes (and they do!), or from watching women in swimming costumes. This isn't Iran.

IOnesmum, I agree that probably those incidents in the past should have been reported (particularly the dodgy flasher in Cassiobury Park in Watford, who followed us all over the park) but it just didn't occur to me, or to my friends. Nowadays he probably would have been the subject of a big scandal. God knows what else he got up to, but I don't feel scarred by that experience. Not excusing him at all, just thinking that we (rightly) take things more seriously now, so we may assume there are more dodgy men about when actually there aren't.

Can I just say that according to my husband, this man was of above average intelligence, and was using it to intimidate others on the fish in.

Of course being married and a scout leader doesn't mean he is dangerous, but don't forget he was talking about how he had been accused already of "interfering" with girls, by his own admission. He was also acting inappropriately with another child . I have member of my family with severe learning difficulites too, so I do understand what you say about your brother but this man doesn't fall under this category.

I agree that most children are abused by those that know them, but bear in mind that paedophiles often target vulnerable families, start relationships etc with the mother/father just to get closer to the child they are interested in. There are also opportunists who will use their strategies whenever given the chance.

This man persistently tried to get my daughter to go off with him, telling her he had sweets and goodies in his tent, using the other child and her mum to make it seem ok. If this man had no other motives, and supposedly being a dad himself, then surely when my husband kept turning him down then he should have known to leave it, realising that from a parents point of view how his behaviour was wrong.

Also because he didn't try and abduct her means nothing else to me than he didn't get the chance. Doesn't mean he might have tried in another situation. Also he may have thought it better to start up contact with dh and her as a long term thing, so next time they met up at an event like this dh would be more relaxed and dd would think as they had met before it was ok to hang out with him.

I don't advocate police checks for all DHs/DPs and agree this is madness. Re-reading, maybe my post came across that way, sorry, it wasn't meant to. I do think that sports coaches and people who regularly help out and spend time with children (whatever their sex) often aren't checked and I think they should be. I don't like this climate of suspicion either.

Lou33 I hope my comments didn't offend you. I just wanted others to be aware that not every strange man is a paedophile. Obviously from what you know say you have every grounds to be suspicious of this man. I do think that we are getting into a paranoid state about stranger danger when someone has quite rightly said that most of the danger comes from within our child's own environment.

I think the media has a big part to play in people's paranoia, with their scary headlines and very in-depth and personal reporting. I mean, the girl's ex-teacher was given a whole page to talk about her feelings - why? And their schoolfriends, I think it's sick that they have been interviewed and photographed by the media. We don't need to know every aspect of the girl's personal lives.

I would be more questioning of the men who are around dd during the course of her everyday life, such as dh's friends, other kids' dads, club leaders and so on. A child being picked up by a complete stranger is very rare indeed. In Holly & Jessica's and even Milly's case the police believe that the girls knew the man (or indeed woman) who took them.

And once dd gets old enough, there is no way I would ever let her near the internet. How can you trust a 10 year old not to use chat rooms? Of course they are going to, it's natural curiosity. I think all chat rooms aimed at children should be taken off the web, they serve no real purpose apart from to make ISPs lots and lots of money.

But once again Lou33, I didn't mean to imply that this man your dh and dd met was anything like my brother. I did say you were right to be suspicious and report him. Sorry if I caused offence

Yes, I did misunderstand your post www. Of course, I think police checks for scoutmasters etc are fine, just not for parents trying to get their kids changed for a swimming lesson.

Rhubarb, I know everyone likes to have a go at the 'media' but I bet their schoolteachers were given the OK by police and parents to speak. They are trying to get as much publicity and new angles to keep the story in the papers, as they know that jogs people's memories and encourages them to keep thinking about the case, noticing anything odd etc. There is a deliberate policy by the police to drip-feed publicity stunts to the papers, with an understanding that each will do the other a good turn. That's why we were suddenly able to see their school books - it was just something new to keep the story alive when otherwise there was nothing to say. The schoolfriends too, I'm sure, were carefully set up as part of this drip-feed to keep the story 'live' so as to help get more clues. Remember, if it wasn't for the 'media' nobody would even know these girls were missing, so I think we should be aware of how important a role the papers are playing right now. They will very much be playing by the rules of the police, and I'm absolutely sure there is stuff they won't print because the police don't want them to.

emsiewill, ont thing I'm a bit confused about - was it actually the centre staff that said dh couldn't go into the changing rooms, , and not one of the women in the changing room, and if so, why on earth did they not speak to him direct? I mean if the centre wanted to say something as important as a parent not being allowed to look after their own kid, basically, then surely they needed to speak to him directly, rather than pass on the message via a 5 year old child?

I can't see why it's that big a deal for them to open theen's changing room. Frankly, if they say he can't go into the ladies (and to be fair, I can see that objection), they they have to provide him with alternative facilities (ie the men's) and not just say someone else will have to look after dd. I mean, is dh supposed to stand outside the ladies lloking for a suitable stranger. Surely then they'd be complaining about him loitering?

Well- good luck, SueW. Getting people police checked is a nightmare and apparently set to get worse now that this new legislation is coming up! The new Criminal Records Bureau is completely snowed under and is taking yonks and yonks to return police checks. If you know who will be involved with the beaver's group I would really recommend getting their forms in NOW. I've had experience of projects falling through/being severely delayed because police checks are taking so long to process that people have moved on by the time their checks come through, sometimes months later.