Be brutally honest - what would you do?

[kayjayel]

Ive got friends coming round for dinner, bringing their son (2.4). The aim is to get him and my ds to sleep so we can have dinner together. Theyre bringing travel cot. My worry is this - they tend to just leave him to settle himself, irrespective of changes in environment. So they re planning to just put him in new place, in cot and leave him to go to sleep.

My worry is this - this happened about a year ago and he was left to cry to sleep in a strange room (lasted about 20 mins, think cos its a regular thing). Im quite uncomfortable with this, and though they call it CC, Ive not felt they adapt it to his mood/environment/health. BUT - is it none of my business? Ive done really well at slapping myself and trying not to judge their parenting choices - hes a lovely boy and I don't know everything. And he could quite easily just snuggle down and go to sleep. Its just what do I do if they put him upstairs and I have to hear a child cry for comfort and shout his confusion whilst parents drink downstairs?

So what would you do? Am I being oversensitive or overcritical?

(for some weird reason my apostrophes turned into numbers so have left them out - I am usually literate!)

Yes he does still cry at night - have babysat and been told to leave him - he always cries a bit, and I see them fairly regularly and they often mention doing CC for various reasons. Wasn't my understanding of CC, but he's not my child.

To be fair, I didn't mean to imply I might say something- I wouldn't dream of it, I was more asking for how to cope- do I just avoid the noise and pretend its not happening, or avoid all mention of it?

It is reassuring that at least a few people would also find it difficult to hear. There was a post a while back about a similar situation but with a newborn screaming, and I think people found that harder, but although child is older I feel quite upset thinking that he still cries himself to sleep - its about 2 years since they first started using CC.

So - will follow consensus and start worrying about my own parenting instead of other peoples! In fact exactly moondog's suggestion sounds good. But will let you know if it was at all founded or I was making up a worry for nothing. The reason I wanted an adult () night for us was cos I'm finding it difficult meeting up with the kids as the friendship doesn't seem to work that well when we're all being parents, rather than just ourselves, in that we have different approaches. I'm sure they think badly of lots of my choices, and I'm trying to stop myself thinking about other people's parenting (hence the post requesting a bit of a cyber slap!).

Lucyellen - same for me with DS - they're coming to us cos DS is a nightmare in different situations and even at home, so couldn't promise to eat before half 9, 10. And we go to bed at 10 to cope with the broken nights - have got so old now .

thanks all for brutal honesty!

I don't think I've sat through a three course dinner without being interrupted since DD was born TBH - but yes of course you can come, as long as I can use Mumsnet words on the scrabble board!

Don't pass any comment - its none of your business.

i think leaving him cry in starge environment is pretty mean myself, and i'd hate to see / hear it, let alone in my own home. How long have they done CC, if they're still doing it now?

Personally, since it would be in my home, i would say it would disturb my kids and ask if they could not do it for that night.

pggirl - its weird - they first did CC at 6 months, it apparently worked, and since then they've done it again when he started standing up in cot, when he woke in night, when he woke too early (6.30 ) when he was moved to big bed (shut the door on him) etc. Although I think now its more CIO, as they rarely return. And when the dad babysat for us and we said what to do if DS wakes (wait a few mins, go up if he sounds properly upset and awake), he said, oh, don't you do CC? (as in not go up to him, irrespective). So this is why I think it still goes on. As I've not used CC I'm not sure if this is normal/usual?

loveangel, and others who said say nothing - of course I wouldn't say anything! I just wondered how other people would deal with this, or whether it wouldn't be an issue for them and I'm just being a bit soft about children crying.

how did you get on?

I absolutely could not listen to a child crying in my house for 20 minutes without doing anything. I certianly couldn't sit there sipping wine and eating nibbles. Any more than I could listen to an adult crying without going in to find out what was wrong.

So no, I don't think you are being oversenstive or critical really. I think you are probably being realistic.

I wouldn't put myself in that situation, tbh.

Agree with whomovedmychocolate and Filly.

Thanks fillyjonk & jodie. Its tonight. Am hoping he'll be fine and it won't be an issue. Its a similar issue to when I babysit when I just can't leave him to cry (given that he sees me about twice a month), so despite being told to leave him I've sat and rubbed his back. Maybe people think this is interfering, but it just didn't feel right as he was clearly distressed, asking for parents, and didn't know me that well. They weren't cross with me for doing it, just a bit bemused and thought I was being soft. I don't want to judge them for what they do, its just that I don't think its the same for the child to be left by a stranger than by a trusted parent in a usual routine. Same with him being in my house - which has only happened once before - I just feel rules should be adapted to reflect the changes in environment.

Oh well. Am going to practice non-parenting topics of conversation so as to avoid conflict - any tips/topics welcome!

If my 'friends' invited me to dinner and then said something along the lines of: 'I can;t bear hearing your child cry' etc etc
I would think : 'Are you actualy my friend or what????'.

I just CANNOT bear people who are so harshly judgemental of other people's parenting. Either put up or don't have those friends to dinner.

It's difficult though isn't it because as WriggleJiggle says some little ones just DO cry to settle. I have one. It took me blinking ages to realise, and even longer to accept because I hate to leave him crying. It's the way he settles. If I try being with him it prolongs it and if I hold him he physically fights to get away. It's just the way he is. And I would hate to think that I was at a FRIEND's house with them judging my parenting abilities thinking I should go up to him knowing that if I did he'd cry even more.

What you describe in OP is not controlled crying. CC is controlled, not ust leaving a baby to cry for lengthy periods of time. CC involves regular checking and reassurances. It is not a barbaric process for a child of 18 months plus (or so) to go through if done properly. CC should only take days to work too, and should not be an ongoing process lasting months. Is he still struggling in this way?

But at 2yo he is not really that little for leaving to cry and settle himself for a short period, but agree that 20 minutes without reassurances is no good.

I would not be happy with having a little one crying for that length of time whilst I was trying to relax and have fun downstairs. It justn't isn't going happen. I'd be on edge the whole time. But it would be none of my business as to what they do. They aren't actually harming their child, and I assume are caring and nurturing in all other ways. So I wouldn't say anything if they were obviously unconcerned themselves.

Oh fgs its not barbaric. They will beable to tell if something is really wrong as the cry will change. The child wil be in a safe place where he cant do much, and if he cries so what. My mum lwft me to cry to sleep because as soon as she appeared i would lie awake for ever.

I have always thought I am a hard nut when it comes to crying kids, but actually I'm not

I don't think I would be able to bear it. It's different when it's my children who are crying, I know them extremely well and usually know if it is a tired cry, temper cry, fear cry, ill cry etc, and I respond, or don't respond, as I deem appropriate. But when it is someone else's child, and they are wailing away, it makes me fidget.

Why for 6:30am? To some people that is too early to be getting up, especially depending on what time the child went to bed. If my DD had been waking regularly at 6:30am I wold have also looked at ways to crack it and see if I could push it back a bit, at least till after 7am.

loveangel - I said I wouldn't dream of saying anything. I'm trying not to judge, which is why I wanted people on MN to tell me to not worry, or to avoid the situation. FWIW I'm positive they judge our parenting harshly, and from what I've seen on MN almost everyone seems to have strong opinions about other people's parenting, so it seems fairly normal to look at others and try to understand it. Its just hard when its your friends and at times they ask your opinion/advice.

I don't think CC barbaric, never said so. I was surprised at doing it at half 6 just cos me and several friends have had long periods where that would be a lie in, especially if he'd slept through from 7pm the night before. hulababy - your points are exactly why I feel a bit uncomfortable with what they're doing in that I was sure it wasn't proper CC.

Am perfectly able of minding my own business, don't want to avoid them all the time (have been doing a bit) because we differ on parenting, so am left with having to ignore it and try not to hear it, reminding myself its not my kid. Is that consensus? I couldn't cancel due to this - there are too many similar things that I think we'd lose the friendship which I don't want.

In your OP you say he is going to be in a travel cot.

Later on you say he is in a big bed.

My ds is 2 & I don't think I would put him to bed at all, I would leave him to drift off to sleep on the sofa or somewhere...

I think the general concensus is that you must agree to differ on this one. You say that he is a lovely little boy and their system is obviously working for them. Unless what they are doing amounts to cruelty, which is not certainly isn't, then it is merely a different approach, no more valid or invalid than yours.

Hopefully he will be absolutely fine tonight, if not, then just let them handle it their way. It's not worth losing a friendship over.

jojay - you're completely right, and succinctly so. He is a sweety, and I'd rather have their friendship than a parenting support network.

Am i being thick here?? If a child/baby is crying it is because it is UPSET/uncomfortable/in pain/insecure/frightened/lonely/anxious it is NOT manipulative/naughty/stubborn or planning on not letting mummy have her dinner party!!! I stand by my stance that i think leaving a child to cry for 20minutes in a strange place is cruel and selfish. Hopefully the parenting fashion will change soon - im sure CC works, but for 20 minutes at a time????? I have virtually no evening to myself as i have to lay up with my DD for up to two hours, i tried CC, i lasted 2 minutes and her little voice calling mamma finally breaking into cries broke my heart - im sure she will learn to settle herself in good time, without the need for heartbreak. I know i dont like sleeping alone so it cant be much fun for a two year old really.

Child is not a baby though - at 2.5 old enough to understand "Go to sleep"

i am well aware that this usually doesn't wok.

But I am sure I do things with my children that make other people gasp - but I do these things with the very best of thinking and reasoning. I am sure they do too.

Some kids cry themsel;ves to sleep. Comfort and cuddles results in a child screaming themselves to sleep, because they have been awake by well meaning comforting and are now overtired. Ds1 would have done, certanly.

Sometimes a child is crying because it is bored and wants to come downstairs and play. Or has realised the grownups don't go to bed at the same time.

A two year old is very very likely to cry to get his or her own way, actually. Not saying that it is wrong for them to do so =- it's perfectly appropriate, but it's also appropriate for parents not to treat it like the devastated shrieks of terror that others (with less experience of this age group) may assume they are hearing.

isnt it strange how, when people have opinions that don't comply with theirs, they assume that they do not have the experience to know what they are talking about!

Flaming tomatoes, my DD is 2 in july, she most certainly does not understand "go to sleep" because really, in the scheme of things, she is still a baby, i know this because i have told her to go to sleep, she squeezes her eyes shut and thinks she has done just that (v.cute). My other DD is 17 and i remember it being very easy with her, a few stories and she would happily settle herself. (i could have selective memory here though). My DD is now showing signs of being ready to settle herself so i will be leaving her to do so, but i certainly will not be letting her cry herself to sleep.

I dont have an issue with controlled crying, but the whole point is tht it is controlled, not simply leaving a child to cry itself to sleep so you can have a night out, sorry but maybe im being niave.

hatrick, i think your situation is quite different, they are partners in crime