Three year old son gave nursery teacher black eye

[Wadingthroughshit]

Hi everyone.
Just that really. His behaviour at nursery is worse than it is at home, but nursery tell me that’s because more is expected of him there. I’m having a multi professional meeting on Tuesday on which balances my sons attendance at the nursery. He’s been there over two years. The director told me that this is the first time they are going to expel a child, that she has to take the health and safety of other children and staff into consideration.
I am distraught, I keep crying. I’ve just finished my masters and I have been very lucky to get a job in my field. I’ve only been there five weeks.
The director started off meeting yesterday telling me my son wasn’t to come in next week, that I ought to spend an intensive week with him. That changed when I suggested the meeting. I would have spent a week on unpaid leave still having to pay for nursery.
I don’t know what to do or say, I’m so upset for him that he feels such anger, and I’m
So ashamed of him.

I do feel so sad for you. Remember your son is only three, he doesn't understand things in a grown up way. Could still be the 'terrible twos'.

This is just a thought but as you have just finished a Masters and will presumably be earning reasonable salary, would it be possible for you to employ a nanny? One who comes in each day to care for your son and his brother, giving more individual attention. She could take him out to a little club/activity maybe a couple of times a week for a short while, so he mixes with others a bit, but more at home with her than a boisterous place like a nursery.

Ex colleagues of mine employed nannies who were marvellous with their children, had lots of ideas that stimulated them and were fun. Your little one may be a very bright boy and appreciate that. There's also something about nurseries, they have to have time tables and rules but that sort of environment doesn't suit every child.

I hope I haven't spoken out of turn, just an idea.

You’re not speaking out of turn, you’re trying to help. I think a nanny would be great. But I only work part time, and my income isn’t great yet as I’ve only just graduated and this is my first job in six years (uni FT before) and I’m part time.

Im honestly wondering whether they would be better with their dad. I don’t want that, not only because I love them and because they have school and their clubs and I read to them every night, but I also think it would make me feel more ashamed than I do already. But I’m worried I’m no good for them. Sorry, I sound really sorry for myself. I don’t even know who I’d tell in real life, other than social worker.

Oh sweetie, I’m so sorry the nursery staff were so disrespectful and unprofessional. That meeting sounds horrid. Blatantly showing their lack of care and concern for the children they look after and for a parent AND for other professional agencies is awful. For you And just at the star chart, so poor.

It sounds to me as if you do know exactly what you want to do now about the nursery and that you are taking steps to do it. You will find the right way forward for you and your DS.

You are a good mother. Definitely. You are here, you are looking for more support for your DS and for you, you are accepting help from social services, you are working to find a way for you and your boys to live happily. That makes you a good mother. Someone who was not able to cope would not be doing any of that.

Putting the DCs in their rooms when you feel ready to blow sounds very sensible! You are giving yourself time to get a grip, that’s very smart!

If it helps, let me tell you that I too have yelled at my DCs, they’re only two years old . I feel so disappointed in myself. I’ve shouted at them and then burst into tears with them and we’ve all sat sobbing on the sofa. I’ve had to retreat to my bedroom sometimes and scream into a pillow because it is all just too bloody much. So please know that you are not alone in any of that.

You are reaching out for support for yourself and your DCs and that is the most important thing. Keep going until you find what works for you.

Could you ask nursery to pinpoint trigger times and keep a detailed record of incidents (including the 10mins before) because it may be that one thing is causing the behaviour and it hasn’t been identified. Could nursery provide 1:1 for a few weeks? Could you go in for a morning with your child to be the 1:1 if they can’t/won’t provide one. The fact is that something is going wrong with his care if he is lashing out. They need to be making proactive suggestions, and not writing him off. Having said that, a new start where he isn’t labelled as ‘naughty’ could be positive for him? A childminder? A school nursery teacher might have more ideas of how to help him too as could have access to school support and a SENCO x.

Is his behaviour worse when certain children are there or around transition or mealtimes? Is he upset going into nursery? I would approach the meeting with a ‘what are you going to do to help my child?’ angle and ask if they have been communicating with health visitors, local support for children exhibiting challenging behaviours? If not, why not?

Just read your update - apologies that I posted without reading that first. I hope you’re ok. If I were you I’d probably follow the social worker me advice. The nursery’s attitude sounds unbelievable and disrupting your child may actually be a good thing as he may be in a bad cycle in an unsupportive environment. Best of luck. Do you have any access to support for yourself?

Every morning is hell, I scream, literally scream. I put them in their rooms. I say horrible things.

So this happens before he goes into nursery every morning? So he is stressed and uspset before he even arrives there? Have you been able to speak to people about your own emotional state?

I'm glad you've realised the nursery aren't supporting either of you time to find somewhere new, think of a childminder who can help with your school run as he's only there a year. They do funding too.
Do you share care with your ex?
When are the parenting classes? Try to keep a note of what starts the shouting etc so you'll have something constructive to ask.
I realise the star chart was the wrong thing for them to offer but have a think on it, make your own with the kids, have three columns one for each of you. And really big up nice things you see in your children, and they can do the same for you. Really helps with esteem and confidence (even in you!)
When you've all got (20) 🥇you get a family treat.
Be kind to yourself, this is a blip, think positive

Was he in nursery full time?
How old is your other dc?

Have you had any support from portage ? Tbh the nursery he's at sounds horrible, the idea of the meeting was to decide a plan together not them tell you what they where doing.

Can you see your doctor about your stress ?

The star chart for all of us sounds like a really good idea!
I’ve phone HV but she’s on annual leave. I have had zero support from health visiting team.
You are right, they go off stressed and upset, of course they will lash out.
I’m worried I’m damaging not only our relationship but themselves.

It sounds like you’re having a really tough time. I agree with others about seeking help for yourself- HV really need to step up and offer support or signpost you to places that can offer support. Have you tried Homestart? We also have a specific mental health team for families with children under 5 in our area- maybe you have similar? GP or HV can tell you that.

But, what I actually came on to say is: don’t discount the effect that the nursery environment is having on his behaviour. I had the most awful mornings with my son at his previous nursery. Screaming and kicking, refusing to go in, I’d literally have to peel his fingers off me to get to work. I cried every single day- it was horrendous. Changed his nursery and he now runs in - I’m lucky if I even get a good bye. The change has been phenomenal.

It's great you're seeing it.
So onwards and upwards. Have a sit down with the kids, have a great chat about what you're doing to be a better mum, what could they do. Then tell them all the great things they already do.
And honestly try to catch each other being great, sounds sad but I've used it to great effect.

Love bomb him.

He can't go around hitting people. Do you actually tell him off or do you just say "don't do that" and move on?

It sounds like he needs some boundaries and consequences for his actions.

On a seperate note I would not be paying nursery if my child wasn’t attending. If they have terminated the contract you do not have to pay, you do not have to give notice as this option has been taken away from you.

Hmm, getting some more support for you should be a priority. Get onto the mental health team and keep asking until they offer you something. Or try your GP again. And do tell your social worker, tell her you need help getting help iyswim!

Getting good support for you is vital in helping you look after your DCs.

Dear Wading, I'm so sorry with all you are coping with. Some children are really difficult, I speak from experience and have been at the end of my tether myself.

My first thought is, don't beat yourself up. You are not a terrible mother, but you are struggling to cope. You have achieved so much with getting your Masters.

I agree with the recent posters like Jumperoo, HonniBee, woolduvet and takemeback.

When my DS was 3 nearly 4 I put him back on the bottle because of his awful anger, and I think resentment of his new baby sister. There's 3 1/2 years between them. He was a difficult baby, a difficult toddler and a difficult child. I screamed too. We are human. I basically 'love-bombed' him (great word) and did a star chart and lots of love and praising good behaviour while ignoring and totally not noticing bad behaviour, for example casually leaving the room to go and do the washing up. It did make a big difference.

He's in his thirties now and I believe is on the autistic spectrum though never been diagnosed. They didn't really, back then, but that would account for a lot of his behaviour.

I hope this new nursery works out. They sound a lot more compassionate and empathic - I really wish you well, and please don't lose faith in your mothering. Just reading your posts it's clear you want the best and are prepared to look at different ways to help. Bad mothers don't do that.

The staff were eye rolling in a multidisciplinary team meeting? I agree with the Social worker. Get him out of that nursery and into a setting with staff who can behave professionally and see what happens with his behaviour.

You seem to be blaming yourself for all of this but it happens at nursery. Maybe they’re the problem. Particularly if they’re labelling him as “the naughty child”. Most nurseries are great but some are crap.

It sounds like you’re doing everything you possibly can. Bloody start chart!

OP I'm sorry you're going through such a tough time. Please try not to blame yourself here. There's some good advice from previous posters and I think you need some support yourself. If you are often screaming in the mornings and feeling like a bad mum (when it doesn't sound like you are) then its obviously going to cause you stress. Its hard to parent at the best of times but ten times harder when you have your own health to deal with.

At such a young age, a child has very little impulse control and lots of big emotions to deal with. I feel like the nursery should be supporting you in helping him learn how to handle his emotions and redirect them so he doesn't resort to lashing out physically. I appreciate they need to keep their staff and the other children safe but I hope they have been putting some kind of support in.

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this side comment, but the first half of this thread did get me raging. I am so upset by the fact that a child hitting or behaving aggressively automatically has people jumping at autism when there was no mention in the OP of any SEN concerns. It makes me sad that so many people instantly associate bad behaviour with autism or some weird assumption that all autistic people are aggressive. There are numerous reasons why a child may be acting out in this way - yes perhaps SEN or autism but not necessarily.
I agree with a PP that perhaps getting an assessment from an Ed Psych is a good idea. I wouldn't be pushing for just autism (in my area they wouldn't consider ADHD at such a young age) but for an assessment to see where this anxiety and behaviour is coming from. They can then tell you if there are any other areas that may suggest autism or if its something else. If its much worse at nursery then there is clearly an issue there and they should be supporting it (as pp said children with autism can mask well sometimes) - whether its SEN or not. Even if your child does end up with a diagnosis then the behaviour still needs managing and supporting somehow. It should be done on needs, not a bit of paper.

Anyway,off my soapbox now. All the best to you OP, I hope you all get some help. Don't be too hard on yourself x

Thank you everyone for your replies. And Kolas, I don’t think you were on a soapbox, I absolutely see your point. I keep reading what everyone has said and it’s helping me.

I had a five minute meeting which was prearranged from a few weeks ago today. My son has been okay this week.
In the meeting I was told by a smiling director that today (over a week after multi agency) she had phoned children services and complained about my incredibly supportive social worker (she is not officially attached, I have no social work intervention, but was for a month at Christmas and was amazing) to her manager because she behaved “unprofessionally”. The same woman who sat and rolled her eyes in the meeting. So I now cannot communicate with my old social worker who has continued to support me. And I feel awful for causing her hassle.

Could you send the Sw a note supporting her, should could use it if there's a problem.

I’m going to phone the Centre tomorrow and speak to a manager about it. My mum was present at the meeting so I will get her to phone also and support her.

You say you punish bad behaviour.

Do you also reward good behaviour? Telling him how proud you are when he’s good, star charts, etc. Explaining that when he hurts other people it makes you feel sad?

Sorry if I’m teaching you to suck eggs?