Three year old son gave nursery teacher black eye

[Wadingthroughshit]

Hi everyone.
Just that really. His behaviour at nursery is worse than it is at home, but nursery tell me that’s because more is expected of him there. I’m having a multi professional meeting on Tuesday on which balances my sons attendance at the nursery. He’s been there over two years. The director told me that this is the first time they are going to expel a child, that she has to take the health and safety of other children and staff into consideration.
I am distraught, I keep crying. I’ve just finished my masters and I have been very lucky to get a job in my field. I’ve only been there five weeks.
The director started off meeting yesterday telling me my son wasn’t to come in next week, that I ought to spend an intensive week with him. That changed when I suggested the meeting. I would have spent a week on unpaid leave still having to pay for nursery.
I don’t know what to do or say, I’m so upset for him that he feels such anger, and I’m
So ashamed of him.

I don't think it's fair that you working/illness is getting brought into this. There does sound to be something troubling your son whether that be ASD or just feeling out of place at nursery. My little boy is 2 both me & his dad work (I'm part time too) and I am pregnant but my son isn't acting like this so please do not take him acting out as a knock on your parenting!
Is there a way you could do a stay & play type session at his nursery? If he is well behaved majority of the time, it could be down to it's just too much going on at nursery. Do you have an alternative to childcare?

I would look at little more into autism or ADHD. Unless the GP is an expert they won't be able to rule it out just by looking at your son.
Many children mask so can seem fine in certain situations, although it is usually the other way round and they mask at school then meltdown at home.
I have also been reading a lot about bpd and how undiagnosed autism or adhd can sometimes be behind this especially in females, is this something that you could relate to?
I apologise if I have overstepped the mark saying that. My dd has mental health problems so I have done a lot of reading on the subject. It may be something worth looking into as autism and adhd can be heritable.

Wadingthroughshit how stressful for you. You are doing the hardest job there is. Raising 2 small children alone, studying and working, all to give them a better life.

I absolutely feel for you, this must make you feel awful. It's quite bewildering when your child behaves differently in one setting to home.

I'm in a similar situation, but it is my older child, who is now 5. He has subsequently had a working diagnosis of adhd, but the very first nursery he started aged 2, I had to remove him from as they were unable to safeguard both him, other children and themselves from him biting. I moved him to a new nursery, where he did not repeat that particular behaviour. As an aside, he didn't bite other kids when he was in my care. So I do think the nursery were the issue in poor behaviour management strategies.

I don't have any miraculous words of wisdom for you. As time has gone on, things have improved for my son though, so don't despair. Things won't be like this forever.

Is this a private nursery by the way? If it is... try using a school nursery for mornings with a childminder for wrap around care? If that's a possibility.

Id look into him going to a much smaller nursery or using a childminder. I honestly don't think things will improve in his.current setting.

“Yesterday he came
To me after I’d had the meeting and said “I have no one to play with, nobody wants to be my friend” and I know it’s partly his own doing, but he’s three, and that broke my heart.“

Oh that’s so sad :(

Maybe he is getting overwhelmed at nursery. You could consider a childminder either, it sounds like he is more relaxed in a home setting.

Could the behaviour difference be partly due to perspective? Do you punish every single time he hits/pushes/kicks his brother or just when it's hard enough to hurt? Or it's a wee push/poke with a toes is it looked over.

How many days a week is he in nursery? Just the 2 you are at work, or more?

It's obvious you're trying your best for your family OP.

Ditto the childminder idea as maybe he needs a bit more time with the smaller group.

We are sitting in Zizis about to eat pizza and the last few posts have given me some warmth, thank you so much, I’m nearly in tears. The suggestion of school nursery and wrap around childminder sounds really good. We live in a small village, but I will definitely look into it.
It’s awful that he feels so angry that he lashes out like that, awful for him
And of course the person on the recieving end.
I will phone the school and ask about it.

I think pp are right when they say find a different nursery. DS Aged 3 has been displaying a range of behaviours that we all find challenging at home and nursery but the nursery have been amazing bringing in observers, regular meetings with us to agree strategies etc. He's now close to a diagnosis of sensory processing disorder so we're all working together to do the right thing for DS. If your nursery's first response is to expel him then i think you need a more supportive one. Also don't give up with the doc! If he is on some scale you'll need support in school when he starts.

I work full time so please ignore the unhelpful comments about you working

Do pm me if you want. This kind of thing is all very much my world at the moment!

Really finding it difficult to understand why everyone is coming down so hard on OP. If she didn't work, she'd be judged; if she didn't want to help her family situation including financially, she'd be judged. Plus it says she's only working 2 days a week!
OP I feel for you, it sounds like you've tried everything and continue to be proactive in getting your son help and making sure he is happy. Keep doing what you're doing and remember to accept help from those around you

Well done for getting your masters and a great job

Ah, you sound like such a good mum OP. You’re working hard to look after your family and improve your life together financially and emotionally. Keep going. Your DS is lucky to have you.

You need some support for you in all this. Parenting classes might give you that, good plan to find one.

Violence and anger stem from fear. Your DS is showing you how he feels. Admittedly he’s going about in a poor way - but he is only three. Lots and lots of much older people struggle with expressing their feelings appropriately too!

Just yesterday I was sent a link to a free video course about helping violent boys. If you want to take a look then DM me your email address and I will forward it to you. It’s from this organisation .

I’ve found their approach invaluable with my two.

Your DS is good, you are good. You’ll find a way through.

Oh, I really really feel for you. I think it's fairly normal for children to go through periods of challenging behaviour, but certainly from what the nursery are saying it is out of the ordinary.

Like other posters I think that another nursery could be valuable. They may not have the same impression of your son, or their way of dealing with his behaviour may be more effective. It would definitely give you a third perspective to add to your view from home and his current nursery's view.

My oldest nephew was a very difficult and agressive child (also towards his family). He has been diagnosed with asd, adhd and some other things. He has been seen by psychologists, psychiatrist an SS sent people over to investigate. He is a bit better now that he us hitting puberty (to everyones surprise). The only thing that really worked besides pills was to send him to a very strict christian school, a different kind than normal christian (not UK, don't know the equivalent). Because most people don't follow this type of christianity the classes were very small (5 kids) and the teachers were very motivated to keep the children coming to school otherwise they would have to close down. This meant that they had more time for him and were very motivated to make school a success.

My DB and SIL do not follow this strict type of christianity (not my cup of tea either) but going to this school worked for my nephew. Keep an open mind and do whatever works for your child.

Thank you everyone. I’ve spoken with my GP, and she certainly isn’t keen to even consider considering a diagnosis. She thinks my son ought to try a different nursery / childcare arrangement and that I ought to attend parenting class and Because Ive pulled the meeting together the omis is on the HV and social work to support me.
I rang the school, but the nursery is full, so tonight I will see if I can find childminder care.
I really need to look at my life and see where I can make improvements and suffer less stress which ultimately impacts the children.
This has happened two days after an ad using my name and phone number was posted on gumtree selling concert tickets and another one on craigslist selling nude cleaning and massage, which has really spooked me! Life !

If thinking about another nursery then it might be worth looking at the SEND local offer for your area. This will tell you about local nurseries that have experience with SEND so if your child does get diagnosed with an additional need they will be best placed to help and you are less likely to need to look around again.

I didn't mean to come across horrible I was just saying I can understand why he has been expelled and I didn't mean stop working I just meant focus on the issue a little more which may have to result in time off work other wise it could get worse, changing/nursery or child milder sounds a good idea but prefer yourself for the worst because it might not help, maybe ask his dad for help/support/suggestions on how you can work together to improve his anger and behavior x

I would say it’s certainly worth exploring if he has a developmental issue such as ASD. You mentioned he’s seen a doctor - was that a GP or a Pediatrician? Given how extreme his difficulties apparently are, he should at least see a pediatrician with a view to a proper ASD assessment.

You mentioned that you have a diagnosis of borderline personality disorder. Sorry to hear that. That can be a very difficult condition to have. It can also make being a parent much more challenging. I want to be clear that I’m NOT blaming you, but do you think your difficulties might be contributing in any way? Are you getting the support you need with your own difficulties? Sorry, I know that’s a difficult topic to raise.

ahh I'd definitely look into using his hours with a childminder. he might be feeling a bit nurseried out, and benefit from a quieter more relaxed home like atmosphere. If you manage to find one who also does wraparound care for the school he'll attend, he will have that continuity there which will hopefully help him transition.

At 3 years old, I think it would be fair to ask if a Educational Psychologist could observe him within the setting. Where are you based? Please speak to the SENCO (or nursery manager) about asking your local Children Services for a assessment and/or observation by an Ed Psych. It's very difficult because I am sure you would like to be a fly on the wall and see for your own eyes what triggers his behaviour at school, unfortunately his behaviour would completely change if you were there.
Also, in my opinion, if you change setting (go to childminder for example) you might find that the problems will come back when he starts school, which has an even higher expectation in terms of structure. Wish you all the best, and a big cuddle as I think you need it.

Where on Earth have these Craigslist and Gumtree adverts come from? Do you think you are being victimised? It must be very stressful to have so many things going on at the same time.

Do you need to report the online material to the police?

OP, I've had a quick look at Jumperooh's clicky link, and I think it would be a very good read for you. In particular, the advice on how to react and what to say.

I find keeping a journal helps me trace back to a trigger, and to use a lot of high structure high nurture. Gradually, there was less to write, and life became fairly normal, and more joyful.

I wish you all the best :-))

Just sat down, will be reading the link next. Thank you so much for that btw!
So this weekend, I’m going to devise a stricter routine. We do have a bed time one, but I’m going to give real thought to how I want things to be at home, so the high structure routine sounds good.
My BPD manifests primarily in lack of boundaries and little fire guard against emotions, so of course horribly it will impact my children, but I promise I’m trying my best ! Social work got involved end of last year because I had a major depressive episode, but signed me off the books pretty quickly after a watching assessment.
Anyway, structure, consistency, love and calm are the way forward. And his dad will attend the meeting, which is good because he doesn’t think there’s an issue .

The ads have been reported to the police yes.

Maybe a forest school would be better? More exercise and space might lessen his anxiety. It's a horrible situation, I've been in similar to a lesser extent