Three year old son gave nursery teacher black eye

[Wadingthroughshit]

Hi everyone.
Just that really. His behaviour at nursery is worse than it is at home, but nursery tell me that’s because more is expected of him there. I’m having a multi professional meeting on Tuesday on which balances my sons attendance at the nursery. He’s been there over two years. The director told me that this is the first time they are going to expel a child, that she has to take the health and safety of other children and staff into consideration.
I am distraught, I keep crying. I’ve just finished my masters and I have been very lucky to get a job in my field. I’ve only been there five weeks.
The director started off meeting yesterday telling me my son wasn’t to come in next week, that I ought to spend an intensive week with him. That changed when I suggested the meeting. I would have spent a week on unpaid leave still having to pay for nursery.
I don’t know what to do or say, I’m so upset for him that he feels such anger, and I’m
So ashamed of him.

Tbh, the level of difficulty you are having with your child’s behaviour, I find it fucking outrageous that your GP would not consider a neurodevelopmental issue. My dd has ASD and at 6 a community paediatrics from the child development clinic told me my dd did not have ASD but it was just a case of sibling rivalry. She was diagnosed a few months later with ASD after trying to cut herself with a knife. I’d really push the GP in this point. I assume nursery’s understanding of ASD would not be all that sophisticated, so I wouldn’t expect it to be raised.

Your parenting is not to blame.

Agree with imip- can you see another GP?

Stay strong OP

Reminds me of my youngest. He's has ADHD and ASD.
Go to the GP and cry. Get a referral for assessment.

I was categorically told by a paediatrician just before ds3 was 5 that he didn’t have autism, he was just emotionally delayed due to his prematurity. I similarly had it suggested that it might be my parenting style. He was diagnosed with autism earlier this year, at 8.5. Like you, home life is generally fine, but school is sometimes overwhelming. He comes across as chatty & confident, but when you scratch the surface you realise that socially he is completely at sea. Please do persist with asking for a referral to paeds & press then for a full assessment. Explain to them that he’s in danger of losing his nursery place. Maybe ask nursery for a written note summarising the difficulties they are experiencing. Good luck.

If they expel him for a week I would not be paying the nursery for that week

OP I don't want to suggest for a moment that I am an expert on BPD but it often runs on families, do you know if either of your parents have it? Also struggling with boundaries when you have been so stressed this year may have caused some confusion in your son or acting out the lack of boundaries at nursery.

I just popped on to agree with others saying find a different GP. I think your concerns are being dismissed, quite possibly because of your own mental health, sad to say. The comments about your Masters and your job are soooo stupid. Well done for completing your course and getting a job. The nursery doesn't sound brilliant either. Anyway, whether or not your son does have any additional needs, you are a committed parent and things will be okay.

By the way your son's father doesn't sound great. Do you know anything about him as a young child or does he have any features of autism?

Of course nurseries expel children- no offence to Op but I pay a grand a month for my child to be at nursery why should my child witness a violent child? It’s not school where you’re obliged to take a child.

OP, I would be booking in with a child psychologist about this. A friend used one at the insistence of her DCs prep- they had already been expelled from 2, this was the only one that agreed to work with her- and it was massively useful there was no diagnosis, nothing wrong with him, they got some great parenting advice and over time things turned around. Good luck and congratulations on your masters

Maybe an experienced childminder would be a better idea for him. Nursery school is obviously not working for him.
Also I worry a bit about "Punish". Is that what's making him angry?

As someone touched on it above I’ll say it as their is evidence for it. BPD in females is often diagnosed when it’s sctually autism. I’m not diagnosing over the internet, but just wanted to put it out there. Once dd was diagnosed, dh and I could actually see how many of our family members actually have ASD. We now have 2 dds with ASD and my sister was also recently diagnosed at 36. Again, I’m not trying to say you or your child is autistic, but his behaviour is very challenging, he seems unable to cope in that nursery environment and I get fed up of hearing parents being blamed rather than actually looking to the child.

I really bothers me when people start trying to label such young children. Frommeverything the OP has written, it sounds very clear to me that this child has had significant issues in his very short life. Parents not together, mother with PBD and also completing a Masters which is very time consuming. None of these things are a criticism. Shit happens and mothers have an absolute right to educate themselves. I also went to Uni when my DD was only 18 months old!
However, the most significant fact of OPs mental health will have a massive impact on her children. She has lots of support, social services have had some involvement, there is a big history here.
Actually, I would go so far as to suggest she find a full time nursery place for dc, not private, but in a school. He will get consistency, boundaries, and there will be a much smaller possibility of him being excluded. She will get more time to herself, either for work or for wellbeing.
Please stop suggesting this is due to the mental health of the child, it is not.

I’m a very experienced nursery practitioner and my advice would be to find another nursery as I’m quite shocked that the nursery are looking at expulsion rather than support for your son
This is obviously a child who needs more than the nursery can offer, so it’s more of a reflection of the nursery than your son
The children who are the most challenging are the ones who need the most help and support
This nursery have massively failed your child

Agree with Insancerre it could well be the nursery. They should be looking to support him, not expel him. It sounds as though they are out of their depth.

Im sorry you're having a tough time OP. I just wanted to say, that if the nursery had expelled or suspended your child then I don't think it's fair that you should be paying for the tone he is not there. I understand they are vultures and you're expected to pay for EVERYTHING but in this case this isn't your fault and it's their choice not to provide the care. Just a thought as know know how painful is is to pay for nursery and her literally no benefit!

Ah OP how stressful for you. I’d echo what other people have said and change setting. I’d consider a childminder. There’s lots of self support material for adults with BPD on the web if it might be helpful. Look up Marsha Linehan and DBT. X

Also, maybe he would better with a childminder or someone who can give him a bit more attention? Childminders tend to get out and about don't they, fresh air walks and things may help. Perhaps he doesn't enjoy being cooped up in the nursery?

Hi everyone. Sorry, I didn’t realise more people had posted.
So my son was at nursery today and had a very good day. I kept my phone on my desk just in case, and I phoned the nursery at lunch to check.
I hate thinking, although it probably is true, that my MH has had such a negative impact on my child, I struggle massively with shame already. My situation is far from ideal and the shame from it stops me from making new friends, even at my eldests school, where my eldest is popular and well behaved.
The multi professional meeting is tomorrow so I’ll see what comes of that.

I'm sorry everyone is putting the blame on you here; sounds like if any parent needs to take time off it should be his father, not sure why other posters are just jumping on you, when time position in work is crucial right now. If you are not experiencing major behavioural issues at home, it's potentially a nursery problem. I would go and view other nurseries immediately, tell them the truth, he is being expelled but you don't experience any of the behaviour at home. Maybe somewhere more nurturing like a childminder?

I phoned another nursery which we viewed about a month ago today and told her everything that’s happened, and said I would contact her depending on the outcome of multi professional. The other nursery is smaller, 16 children maximum to two practitioners, his nursery right now is somewhere in the region of 30-40 children.

I will also discuss ASD With HV tomorrow and press her on it.

I am not making excuses for your child and I am not an expert in child behaviour - far from it. But I have observed that sometimes children do a couple of bad things, then they way they are subsequently handled "pushes" them towards the bad behaviour again. Examples: "Be nice this time" reminds the child of previous bad situations. "You must be good when you're doing X" reminds of previous bad behaviour. People can reinforce behaviour without realising it (the difference between "don't drop it" versus "hold it steady"). You get the idea. Is it possible that probably unintentionally the nursery staff are now so wary of your child they give off "signals" and actually inadvertently encourage wrong behaviour. Have you considered trying something completely different - e.g. child minder, nanny for 2 days a week, someone to come to you instead of your child going to nursery etc.

I agree completely, it may well be unintentional, but I think perhaps it would be naive to think behaviour can be 100% standardised.
There are no forest nurseries near where we live or my work, which is 3 DPW, forest school would be ideal.
Childminder/nanny isn’t something I think I can afford? My son gets 12 HPW funded ? Although are childminders cheaper than nurseries ?

So glad to hear that your son is having a good day, is he at the same nursery or a different one. Who will be at the meeting and what is it’s purpose?

A bit off topic but my middle child was a biter as a baby. It was a nightmare as I had never had this with my first child, she was younger than your son is now but especially when she was non verbal and frustrated she would bite. Mortifying. Anyway my only point to my story is the behaviour did stop and of course I kept my eyes on her like a hawk when she was displaying that behaviour to protect other children. It does seem that the nursery should have protocols in place to make sure a child, such as your DS and my DD are being carefully monitored as their behavior is being managed. Obviously other people should be protected in this situation but also we should not be demonizing children when they are struggling.

@Wadingthroughshit you can still get funding through child-minders x

Had the multi agency meeting, which ended up being an hour and a half of storytelling. I walked away with a star chart. Nursery had already decided on a course of action prior to input from HV or social worker.
Nursery did not involve their attached teacher (partnership nursery) or take advice from council run groups. The staff were rude and actually rolled their eyes when the social worker spoke. It was horrific.
I spoke to another nursery and was completely honest. We then spent an hour there last week and my son is spending two hours alone there on Thursday, but I’m still not sure what to do as I’m concerned about the disruption.
The social worker phoned me after the meeting to tell me to leave the nursery.

But really, I think it boils down to my inability to cope. I can’t cope. I’m not a good mother. Every morning is hell, I scream, literally scream. I put them in their rooms. I say horrible things. My relationship with them is breaking down. I go to work heartbroken and angry and almost in tears. Every. Morning.
I don’t know what to do.