Do the cons of having kids outweigh the pros?

[LucyTosca]

As mums, can you think of any more pros to having kids?

The cons seem to well outweigh the pros in my list below.

Advantages of not having kids:

1. Free time
2. Spontaneity
3. Time to myself
4. Time to do my art
5. Time to read
6. Time to listen to a play or a podcast
7. Getting enough sleep
8. Coming to work everyday
9. Not having to have a boring routine

10. Money to spend as I please 11. Saving money 12. Holidays with Paul or friends 13. Can stay out as late as I want 14. Not having to find babysitters 15. Far less stressed 16. Peace and quiet 17. Having a healthy relationship making time and giving love to each other 18. Sit in coffee shops updating my blog 19. Having a varied and regular blog 20. Going to gigs 21. Having time for pets 22. Time to practice yoga 23. Going on big walks 24. Going out for dinner regularly 25. Being in the moment without being distracted all the time 26. Not passing down depression or anxiety 27. Not worrying about your children 28. Not having backchat or ungratefulness towards you 29. No dramas 30. No fear of mentally damaging your children

Disadvantages of not having kids:

1. Being amazed at having created your own human being
2. Being a family unit
3. Having someone to care for you in later life
4. Watching your child grow
5. To love and be loved unconditionally
6. Going to sleep knowing that you have lived your day to the full, even if that full is tedious!
7. Being present and entertained

In your disadvantages list:

Number 3 is a shitty reason and you cannot be beholden to it when you are older.

Number 5 works until the children hit teens/pre-teens. It smacks a little of 'but i'm your mother/but he's your father' and people in abusive or disfunctional families should just suck up shitty behaviour from their parents.

Number 6 is utter nonsense.

Number 7 i cannot make sense of.

Of your first list, i disagree with too many to list (and i'm on my phone, so flipping up and down is a pita).

The best reason to have children is because you/you and a DP both want children. People who choose not to have dc often say it is because they couldn't see children in their futures.

My child is at school, i work 5pm-10pm, i'm on my sofa eating biscuits with a cuppa. I walked the dog this morning for an hour in the woods. DH did the weekly shop and had a coffee and a read of the paper while he was out. Ww still have time to ourselves, time to read. Housework us housework. Our 7yo has a moist microfibre cloth and cleans the skirting boards once a week

I think in your first many many are essentially the same thing - "time to do what I want" and then "money to do what I want" splitting them out has artificially inflated your disadvantages list.

Are you trying to decide whether to have a child? If you're going to such lengths to ensure there's so many disadvantages it sounds like you don't really want to, at least not now.

Sounds like you value your time more than anything. I think if you are that focussed on writing a list like this then deep down you know you aren't ready for kids. That might change in time but it's ok if it doesn't.

To me, having a family and the love between my children and I massively outweighs the negatives. The thing is, yes you are correct in some of the the things on your con list but being a parent changes the way you see things and you won't care about that as much as you think.
Now and again I might think I wish I had more time to do things myself and that DH and I had more couple time, but when it's in perspective, we're all happy and healthy and overall that's all that matters to me.
The things I did before I had all the kids I can't imagine me wanting to do now and that's not necessarily a bad thing, you grow and change throughout life.

There are lots on your first list that isn’t accurate.
You may need to do a bit of juggling for a couple of years but I generally have time to myself, time to read and have hobbies, I’m always listening to podcasts.
I go on big walks regularly, go to gigs and go on short Breaks without the kids.
A lot of the above I do with the kids because they are fab and I love to spend time with them.

Apart from holidays with Paul and friends (!) I do the things on your first list and I have a kid

but no one on the internet can make a decision as life changing as having kids for you!

I go on holiday with Paul all the time

I agree with emma. FWIW (12 months in) I think that you can't really rationalise parenthood, because no one pre-kids will say, Fuck it, I've had enough disposable income, sleep, leisurely breakfasts and Netflix. But you want kids enough that the sleep deprivation, poo chat, Wind the Bobbin Up etc really don't matter.

Though I've never been on holiday with Paul - maybe that would swing it for me??

I didn't read your whole list, but it sounds to me that you're not ready yet.

I didn't have to think about any of that. I knew I wanted children and I was prepared to take whatever goes with it.

There is absolutely no point in making a list like this. The vast majority of your items are about not having time to do what you want, and that will undeniably be true if/when you have a young child or children, unless you can afford a lot of paid help or rely on an extensive family network for babysitting. And I agree with elQuinto's thoughts on your second list, which don't make a lot of sense.

Yes, life without children is far, far easier. You have more time, liberty, money, solitude etc. But this is common sense. There are no concrete benefits to having children you can list in the same way.

The only reason to have a child is because you (and your partner, if applicable) want to have a child.

Though I've never been on holiday with Paul - maybe that would swing it for me??

Well, I think I speak for all of us when I say, I'd have never considered having a child if I got to go on holiday with Paul.

I'm saying that in my best Debbie McGee voice.

To mind mind that's a rubbish list. I do a lot of your list despite having children. But to me it's such a limited, dull existence. Listening to a pod cast? A coffee shop trip? It's not what I would consider fulfilling but
then we are all different.

My children give me so much happiness, pride and love. Not everyone feels the same but my children give me a purpose. I have a good marriage, lovely friends,nice house and a job I enjoy but my children are what really matter. My list of pros is small but worth more. Yes I've been tired, drained and the worry and mess is real.

I suspect point 26 and 30 might have more impact on your fears about having a baby then you realise.

You definitely don't need kids to experience backchat and ungratefulness in life!
But in my experience, having a child only heightened my sense of self and what I wanted to do with my time. The first few months admittedly take a lot of your time and you will not be getting on with your hobbies when your baby is waking every 2 hrs during the night. But once it settled down, I found that what free time I did have I wanted to spend doing things I enjoyed - my free time isn't wasted now I realise how precious it is. But don't have a baby if you don't actually feel the need to have one.

I'm Married to a Paul. He never goes on holiday, he hates it. I call shenanigans

I think your list is pointless. And I love lists. Having children is either something you want, or something you dont. Neither option is better than the other.

To me, my children have brought me more happiness and love than anything else in the world. Something that I could never put into words.

Imo you seem to be only focusing on the baby and toddler years with regards to no time or sleep. My children are 6 and 11. I get a lie in every weekend morning, they are old enough to want to do the same things that I do in our free time. Babysitters are easy to come by, because they are easy to take care of. For the most part, they have their own interests and do their own thing. So I would take that element to just a small part of your list, as it's only s few years out of their whole lives.

Last night I didn't want kids, especially the one who kept me up all night.

This morning that was completely wiped out by one of them telling earnestly that she had collected lots of Willy Wonkas... she meant conkers.

If you actually want a kid then have one. The stuff on the first list won't matter as much. If you like the idea of a kid but don't actually want one, then be an awesome Aunt/friend.

"5. To love and be loved unconditionally

1. Going to sleep knowing that you have lived your day to the full, even if that full is tedious!
2. Being present and entertained"

I didn't realise being child free meant I wasn't able to so these things. Usual patronising stuff, thinking that if you don't have kids you can't love or be fulfilled.

On the other hand, I'm well up for regular holidays with Paul....

The issue is not all list items carry the same weight. You could have a list of 2837363 reasons not to and just "1. The love we'll all share" (sorry - pass me the sick bucket I know) and they would be balanced.

Having a baby killed my blog and I've never had a holiday with Paul. But it's weird how you just adapt to enjoy the new things you weren't even aware of before.

You could overthink it forever but it's not something that can be decided via a list. If it helps I didn't feel ready / felt a lot of the things on your list / had a hard start with PND and still in no way regret it.

It's brilliant but in a way you can't really articulate in a simple list (or I've got Stockholm syndrome 😁)

I have 2 kids, I'm working and listening to a podcast right now.

Your list of cons is very dramatic!

OMG yes of course they do!

I have kids and can/do do most of the things on your disadvantages list and none of them seem particularly fulfilling to me.

As someone else said - I couldn't put into words the love and happiness my children bring me.

Sorry but this made me laugh so much!
God my kids can be annoying as fuck and I feel like I haven't slept a full night once since we had the second, still I wouldn't change having them for the bloody world!

Not read the full thread but in your first list lots of things are the same - time. So you can cut that down somewhat. If you’re not sure, don’t have them. My life has changed a lot since having my kids but I can’t imagine not having had them and being without them now. They are my world and I don’t care that I don’t have as much time or money as I had previously because I have something better now.

I think it's a fair punt to say you don't really want kids right now, amirite??

The thing is, your big long list would be completely different if you DID. For example when I was longing for kids (I now have 2) it would have gone like this...

1. Free time time spent with kids!
2. Spontaneity Lots of lovely plans with the kids
3. Time to myself children to spend time with
4. Time to do my art kids to make stuff with
5. Time to read kids to read to
6. Time to listen to a play or a podcast kids to go to the park or the zoo with
7. Getting enough sleep (okay, can't argue with that one)
8. Coming to work everyday coming home to kids every day
9. Not having to have a boring routine Not having to spend another boring day without kids

10. Money to spend as I please Kids to spend money on

...etc. etc. etc.

You get the picture