Do the cons of having kids outweigh the pros?

[LucyTosca]

As mums, can you think of any more pros to having kids?

The cons seem to well outweigh the pros in my list below.

Advantages of not having kids:

1. Free time
2. Spontaneity
3. Time to myself
4. Time to do my art
5. Time to read
6. Time to listen to a play or a podcast
7. Getting enough sleep
8. Coming to work everyday
9. Not having to have a boring routine

10. Money to spend as I please 11. Saving money 12. Holidays with Paul or friends 13. Can stay out as late as I want 14. Not having to find babysitters 15. Far less stressed 16. Peace and quiet 17. Having a healthy relationship making time and giving love to each other 18. Sit in coffee shops updating my blog 19. Having a varied and regular blog 20. Going to gigs 21. Having time for pets 22. Time to practice yoga 23. Going on big walks 24. Going out for dinner regularly 25. Being in the moment without being distracted all the time 26. Not passing down depression or anxiety 27. Not worrying about your children 28. Not having backchat or ungratefulness towards you 29. No dramas 30. No fear of mentally damaging your children

Disadvantages of not having kids:

1. Being amazed at having created your own human being
2. Being a family unit
3. Having someone to care for you in later life
4. Watching your child grow
5. To love and be loved unconditionally
6. Going to sleep knowing that you have lived your day to the full, even if that full is tedious!
7. Being present and entertained

You've definitely got a point and I'd love to have kids AND be able to do all the things on your first list.. but having my two kids has been life changing in a positive way and nothing is better or more important than them. It sounds so smug and I'd never say it out loud but until you have a child you can't understand how it feels and there's no way to describe it that does it justice. (I know not everyone experiences parenthood in the same way but probably fair to say most people live there kids more than they knew they could love anyone).

5 on your 'pro' list is pretty big though. It's all imcompassing the love the DCs.

Most of your 'con' list is different ways of saying the same thing - enjoying spare time and money. Comes down to this - how much do you/your DP/H earn? Are you basically well off enough to pay for child free time? still able to afford nice holidays after DCs (particularly the Mark Warner/Neilson types with the really good kids clubs)? Do you have parents/PIL who live near by and are in good health who'll regularly take DCs off your hands for the night so you can still go to gigs/out for dinner? Space in your house for an au pair when the DCs are school aged?

Plus I love the idea that children are the only source of 'drama' you could have in your life! Just wait for the Christmas family arguments threads - very little drama is caused by the under 18 year olds in families!

It doesn't sound like you are ready for children, but it's often not a logical thing, and most people can't put into words the benefits of having DCs, because it's truely hard to explain love.

Honestly, I genuinely don't think that one way or the other is the right or fulfilling way. I believe you make your own life fulfilling and you can be as happy without kids as with them, just in a different way. My daughter brings me untold joy and happiness - which is good because my life is pretty much empty of much else! I'm so glad I had her because I've always wanted a family and I personally don't think I would have been as happy without one, but I can absolutely see why other people would be just as happy as me without children.

I did everything with my children. Have never lived alone, had my first at just 19 (he came to uni with me) I firmly believe after a horrible upbringing that they have been the making of me.... I have three now and they are nearly grown up and I am just 40.

I think we can be guilty of over thinking and planning things. You will never get 100% yay or nay.

definately worth thinking - unless you are in your late 30s/early 40s, it's unlikely you have to make the decision and live with it forever right now.

You can just say it's not the right time for you both now, and then in the future, if your feelings change, change your mind.

The problem comes if one of you wants DCs and the other partner doesn't.

There's nothing wrong with not wanting kids! And it's fairly clear you don't want them at the moment, based on your list. Having kids isn't compulsory.

We're all different - even if I had all the spare time in the world I'd still never write a blog...

A lot of your cobs lost doubles up. And many things like frequent travel, working or going out to dinner, long walks etc is just as possible with children.

And your pros list is a bit unrealistic. Having children doesn't mean that they will love you unconditionally or look after you in your old age (these things are reserved for good parents).

If you unsure whether you want children I would say that having children is a rebirth. Your life will suddenly become so much richer and more meaningful. If you are not sure that you can cope with having children then I would say this, the responsibility is crushing. The anxiety, the guilt, the sheer amount of time and energy they take up is all much worse than you imagine.

Yes. Same for marriage. Ultimately, you can't boil down 'meaningful' to self-interest.

I think the only things I agree with on your con list is that I have to find babysitters and obviously worry about my children, but what would be worse that that? Not having anybody to worry about, means we have someone to love and cherish.

I am able to do everything else on the list, I don't have babies anymore, but then I've always been the kind of person that hasn't let parenthood define me, I value myself as a person and ensure I meet my own needs as well as my children's. But as I say, they're not babies anymore. I don't find having children quite the drama everyone else on Facebook seems to make it (except the baby stage struggled with that!)

OP - so many of the things from your first list are possibel with children.
Having time for pets? of course - a pet can be central in any family's life. the bond between my ASD son and our cat is one of the most gorgeous things I've ever witnessed.
Big walks - of course you can. Start them young. But children make short walks astonishing too with their intense observation and delight in all creatures and shapes and textures.
Gigs? Best gig I ever went to was a festival with DC, standing in pouring rain listening to my favourite band oplay my favourite song - a band I'd never even have heard of if DS1 hadn't jigged up and down to them and clapped in delight aged 1 when he heard them, which made us buy their CD.

From your first list, it seems you take real pleasure in the small good things in life - reading, walking pets, cafes, music. If you are that way inclined, I'd guess you would adore having children, as they too take huge pleasure in small things - rain, snow, sand, cooking biscuits, reading stories together etc. You get so much joy out of these small experiences.

I understand your MH anxieties, but you don't have to pass them down. i've honestly made it my life's work not to and I don't care how pompous that sounds. Stopping the MH damage being passed down to yet another generation has been the biggest, toughest focus of parenting for me, but fuck me I think I've succeeded, and that makes me incredibly proud. I've taught DC how to care for themselves physically and mentally, particularly when they feel down and are hard on themselves or feeling bleak about life. I've learned how to curb the family vicious temper - we don't row in our house, or sneer or put each other down. It is possible, I promise you. Hard work but most things worth doing are.

The fact you are even writing a list of negatives seems to indicate you maybe shouldn't have kids?

It's ok not to have kids! You do t sound like you do and that's fine, it's a valid choice!

Oh my God, stop navel gazing and get on with your life!

I agree that most of the first list is about free time and money, plus fear of "getting it wrong". I love spending time alone and on my own art and writing projects, BUT now I have my two young children I'd usually rather be with them (though I do need a break sometimes!). It's hard to, in your situation, weigh up things you know you love doing against something you've never tried.

Also, as others have said, it's (generally) only whilst they're very young that there's a big impact on time and money. My mum is in her 60s and she and her friends all have broadly similar lives in terms of free time whether or not they had children, whilst for me in my 30s there's a huge difference in free time (& general freedom!) between those of us with kids and those without.

I also think having someone to look after you when you're older is a TERRIBLE reason to have children, sorry.

The list is bollocks. I lived life more to the full before having kids, now I live it mostly for them. But it’s worth it. I agree with others that you aren’t ready.
FWIW On a recent holiday we realised sil and her kids were in the same area so spent a day hanging out. My pil have been staying with us for a month - hard for me but wonderful for them to spend time with 3yo and meet baby. Having lug with an aunt who is in town and my cousin who lives here (families are all Australian) on saturday. My sister moves to London in 2 weeks which will be fantastic and my parents are coming in a month before my entire family go on holiday together - about 15 of us. Then we go home to Melbourne for Christmas and stay with my parents.
It’s having a family. I could never regret it.

Lunch not lug

I'm marrying a Paul, I have holidays with him and our 2.5 year old ds. So far we have had 3.

You don't want children. That is ok and you don't need to compile lists to justify it to yourself or anyone else.

1. Free time = Time to do my art, Time to read, Time to listen to a play or a podcast, Time to myself, Time to practice yoga
2. Spontaneity
3. Getting enough sleep
4. Money to spend/Save as I please
5. Can stay out as late as I want
6. Not having to find babysitters
7. Far less stressed
8. Peace and quiet
9. Sit in coffee shops updating my varied and regular blog

10. Going to gigs 10. Going out for dinner regularly 12. Being in the moment without being distracted all the time 13. Not passing down depression or anxiety 14. Not worrying about your children 15. Not having backchat or ungratefulness towards you 16. No dramas 17. No fear of mentally damaging your children

Holidays with Paul or friends, Not having to have a boring routine, Coming to work everyday, Having a healthy relationship making time and giving love to each other, Having time for pets, Going on big walks all of these we still do with a DS.
We've had 'no dramas' in our relationship in the 8 years together as such, and we do go for dinner maybe once a week with him too.

If you want kids you want them, if you don't it's ok!

Hi OP, it’s lovely that you want to go away with me and my friends but here’s the answer to your Q:

IMHO nobody is ever “ready” for a baby and all the things you mention are great and will change, but life modifies with children so instead of going out to socialise you stay in, instead of holidays to Mauritius you do Center Parcs etc

(Posted too soon)

You find a way if you do end up planning or not planning a baby.

But it’s also ok to not be ready.

Should you be the “first” in your group to be in this position and all around you are living their “best life” yeah I can see your reservations.

But your decision shouldn’t be based too much on social reasons, lots of things can change in the decade between the end of your twenties and end of your thirties, it’s boggled my mind that’s for sure.

It’s also ‘easier’ to be dead than alive but we get such unquantifiable joy (and exhaustion/stress/sadness) by being alive.

The list of positives in not having children may be long but the joy you have with having them cannot be compared to a thousand little other positives*

*Usually

There’s no denying have a child changes things and yes doing some of the things on your list is more difficult, however I think your negatives list is a bit dramatic!
I have a 5 week old and I have been out several times for meals with my husband + the little one, have a holiday booked with friends and their children (plus some who are childless), I have time to do things that interest me when my DS sleeps, we’ve been on walks with baby in the sling / a pram, I’ve had time to read a few chapters of a book and I’ve been to a cafe with friends to catch up. A lot of the things you mention are perfectly doable, but if you don’t want a child that’s ok. Like a previous poster I also wonder how much 26/30 are playing on your mind. I also don’t agree that having a child to look after you later on in life should be something you consider a positive!

What response were you expecting OP? Did you think mumsnet would be full of folk saying that having kids is a bit shit?

@AccidentallyRunToWindsor

probably, but I really don’t think that’s outside the realms of possibility though, no?