A bit fed up of holier than thou parents

[rubyroot]

Just get a sense that there's all these parents who are into attachment parenting who think everyone else should subscribe to their way.

What if you don't want to breastfeed your baby until they are two, or you don't want to cluster feed. Sometimes the advice to keep at it is not helpful- particularly if it is affecting the mother's mental health.

Or the advice to co sleep, rather than get baby used to their cot- some parents don't sleep well using this method and it affects people's relationships.

Or (and this is the one that gets on my wick)- you must go to your baby every time it cries (even if its just a little) as it will develop depression and anxiety when it is older of you don't. That's what all the studies say apparently.

Even to the detriment of parents. Suffer extreme sleep deprivation, let your baby's sleep be interrupted constantly in the night- rather than ignore a few little whinges. Btw- my baby cried for two mins last night when he went in his cot, he doesn't really want to go to sleep. He made two small noises and two cries of 20 seconds last night. I did not go to him. He slept through.

He's happy now he sleeps through, no more grizzles, I'm happier, can do stuff. I'm not lethargic.

Why do these people not consider the impact on the mother and ultimately the mother child relationship of all this self sacrifice and sleep deprivation?

Surely us mothers need to look after ourselves and our mental wellbeing as ultimately it will affect our children's wellbeing. Shouldn't mothers be encouraged to be less selfless- do we really have to put up with waking millions of times in the night to breastfeed and having our baby in our beds tossing and turning etc...

I feel better now I have this off my chest.

Jent that's an excellent point: when you don't have to make a decision about something (CC, formula etc etc) it's hard to imagine why someone else did!

Most of what they are saying is evidence based though. So when they say the WHO recommends breastfeeding for at least two years, or they say leaving a baby alone to cry raises cortisol levels which can lead to later depression; they are stating fact.
You can choose to ignore their advice but it isn't just their way versus yours, there is scientific evidence from here to Timbuktu showing that what they say is sound.
If a mother has genuine mental health issues then it is different, but if a Mum simply prefers a routine or prefers to bottle feed that is their choice and it is one that is made to suit themselves and not because they genuinely think they will be headed for a breakdown if they follow the advice of attachment parents.

My DM is completely anti breastfeeding and spent the first year of my sons life telling me he was spoiled for wanting fed and all his sleep problems were from him breastfeeding. She repeatedly said ‘are you sure he’s getting enough milk?’.

I've had similar experiences, but not from my mother.

For me, sleeping with and following my baby (rather than routine and sleep training) meant a happier boy who woke up smiling rather than screaming. We are all just trying to do our best but I do feel your post is a bit more judging than helpful.

Exactly- it is what makes your baby happy. My post was about people who support attachment style parenting as I have felt judged mostly by these parents on mumsnet and I do think there's a significant amount on mumsnet that do this.

I wasn't actually criticising their methods. I also co slept, albeit for a short period. (No doubt will get told I am being judgey again for actually saying I co slept as I did for saying I breastfed)

Babies are born into families, all of whose members need consideration. For the baby to take over completely is unhealthy.

Couples need some peace and privacy; babies need a bit of healthy neglect.

Ignore these poncy parents.

Most of what they are saying is evidence based though. So when they say the WHO recommends breastfeeding for at least two years, or they say leaving a baby alone to cry raises cortisol levels which can lead to later depression; they are stating fact.

Really- so stop quoting studies and organisations... Show me the original papers. I guarantee there are flaws.

As a previous poster said it is about responding to your baby's needs a percentage of the time, we cannot do it 100% of the time, although people do try and as the pp acknowledged she was frazzled.

A bit of cortisol is okay, a small amount of stress can be healthy. Chronic stress is not okay and is not healthy. It's not black and white, but is often taken as such. I may be wrong, but I think all the studies quoted on sleep are on babies who are under six months.

It's really really not just the AP types who judge. I've been judged like fuck for not doing CC, not giving formula, bed sharing etc etc. Rod for my own back, DC will be in my bed on their wedding night, not getting enough to eat, and so forth. People judge, it's largely misogynistic bullshit (even if it comes from women) because the fathers, in my experience, are pretty much never judged.

If a mother has genuine mental health issues then it is different, but if a Mum simply prefers a routine or prefers to bottle feed that is their choice and it is one that is made to suit themselves and not because they genuinely think they will be headed for a breakdown if they follow the advice of attachment parents

Suit themselves? On a thread condemning judging. Point fucking proven.

So here's just two studies which oppose conventional thinking- we can all quote studies to suit our agenda. Reason why it is not fact @zeeboo as you suggest

www.preciouslittlesleep.com/pediatrics-cry-it-out-study/

eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2016/05/24/study-infant-baby-sleep-method-cry-it-out-wont-damage-child/84838958/

Suit themselves? On a thread condemning judging. Point fucking proven.

Confused

You’ve just judged the hell out of a lot of people.

And some people want to put their kids before themselves, it’s not for you to judge is it?

You do you.

rubyroot because it was judgy?

it's largely misogynistic bullshit (even if it comes from women) because the fathers, in my experience, are pretty much never judged.

Ha- agree with this. MIL comes around and says things to baby about how we should bring him up/advice etc whilst I am in earshot and partner is i another room- when it is both of us bringing him up!

Ha seems we can't talk about judgy without being judged ourselves. Think point has been proven though!

In fact you're all judgey- this is judgy too!

And some people want to put their kids before themselves, it’s not for you to judge is it?

There's an inference there that I am not putting my child before me- how judgy.

Point deffo proven

No-one really has any right to judge the way other people choose to parent. End of.

I was constantly told it was fine to leave my baby to cry, I never did and he's now a contented 4 month old who doesn't scream the house down because he knows I'll go to him if he needs me. But I don't judge others that leave their babies to cry. Their child their choice. I'm constantly being nagged by my MIL because I give my child too much of my time and won't dump him in a play pen. So what? People need to get over themselves and parent how they want and not worry about what everyone else is doing

What? It’s literally what you said. Re self sacrifice in your original post. Nice try though.

You obviously feel bad for how you parent and that’s okay - you can change it. Although I find selfish people tend to stick to their own selfish ways.

I’d rather ensure to the best of my ability that my child isn’t prone to things like depression or anxiety and that they feel loved completely and not conditionally and only when they are being convenient for the parent.

Guess we are all judgy in some ways, but I wouldn’t go out of my way to make a post about it at least

What? It’s literally what you said

No it's not the words I used. I do put my baby before myself a vast amount of the time. Sometimes you have to look after yourself to look after your baby.

You obviously feel bad for how you parent and that’s okay - you can change it. Although I find selfish people tend to stick to their own selfish ways.

Hahaha- love this! People like you are why I wrote this thread- so thanks for this. You've kind of made up for all the flaming I received.

I'd rather ensure to the best of my ability that my child isn’t prone to things like depression or anxiety and that they feel loved completely and not conditionally and only when they are being convenient for the parent.

You're a selfless saint

It’s interesting that you feel it’s AP who judge because I can tell you I was judged for co sleeping with one of my sons until he was three, I was judged for not leaving my children cry to get them to sleep, I was judged for not sending my children to childcare, judged for not not using a naughty step/time out and so on.

Basically when it comes to parenting someone out there will judge the way you do it. The best way is just to get on with your own life and not worry about what others are thinking or doing.

I did most of the things you mention- because I reckoned it would give me the easiest possible life with my babies. I didn't want to stress over routines, or make up bottles or get worried about scheduling naps or get up in the night to feed or upset myself by listening to them crying if I could possibly avoid it or have to fit what I wanted to do round their schedule. So I wasn't "holier than thou"-I was just lazy and wanted a quiet, peaceful life. I didn't want to be the mother who could't come to lunch because of naps. So I got plenty of sleep, spent a lot of time on the sofa and did whatever I wanted to do with baby in a sling. And I could be as lazy as I wanted to be and never do anything I didn't want to do because attachment parenting.

It’s interesting that you feel it’s AP who judge

Not necessarily in real life, but seems to be on mumsnet or other forums. I may just be more aware of it due to the threads I post on. For example, I posted a response today about a poster who wanted help with night weaning her 7/8 month old and the two other responses were posters rocking up telling her she shouldn't do it as it was bad for baby. But, that was not what she asked- she had already made the decision she wanted to night wean! This is just one example of such posts and really what I was commenting on

I did everything you hate OP, because it's what I felt my children needed. I'm not bothered that the vast majority of people do it differently.

I did everything you hate OP, because it's what I felt my children needed. I'm not bothered that the vast majority of people do it differently.

I don't 'hate those things' I have done all of those things at some point. It just aggravates me that people who do these things criticise those who won't subscribe to that. Indeed, I think many of us have done the things I outlined at some point.

The OP is just stating what works for her, as are many of the responses. None of that is judgy. Judging other's decisions and telling them to their face that they are wrong/a bad parent is judgy.

I went more with attachment parenting because it worked for me, I didn't care what others did and certainly had many friends that did things differently. I was only told once or twice by a judgy twat at a baby group what I "should" do to fix my broken babies. I thanked them for their advice and carried on with "bad" parenting. Let it go, it really doesn't matter what others do, even when they feel they need to bombard you with their info and facts.

@rubyroot

"There's a generation of people in their 40s, 50s, 60s and 70s who were most likely exposed to CC/CIO who are not all anxious and depressed adults."

Ha ha! Did you miss the whole 'mothers little helper' scandals? The high use of Prozac and Valium from the 80's? The issues we have now with many elderly people turning up in care homes with mental health problems they have been dealing with in secret for decades?

Your personal experiences and observations are valid, but they are not an alternative to proper studies.

@thereareflowersinmygarden- yes I take that. My point I was trying to make is that there are other issues that we need to protect our children from and that in the grand scheme of things CC/CIO are probably not such a big deakl. I have also commented on the validity of such studies and also cited alternative ones