A bit fed up of holier than thou parents

[rubyroot]

Just get a sense that there's all these parents who are into attachment parenting who think everyone else should subscribe to their way.

What if you don't want to breastfeed your baby until they are two, or you don't want to cluster feed. Sometimes the advice to keep at it is not helpful- particularly if it is affecting the mother's mental health.

Or the advice to co sleep, rather than get baby used to their cot- some parents don't sleep well using this method and it affects people's relationships.

Or (and this is the one that gets on my wick)- you must go to your baby every time it cries (even if its just a little) as it will develop depression and anxiety when it is older of you don't. That's what all the studies say apparently.

Even to the detriment of parents. Suffer extreme sleep deprivation, let your baby's sleep be interrupted constantly in the night- rather than ignore a few little whinges. Btw- my baby cried for two mins last night when he went in his cot, he doesn't really want to go to sleep. He made two small noises and two cries of 20 seconds last night. I did not go to him. He slept through.

He's happy now he sleeps through, no more grizzles, I'm happier, can do stuff. I'm not lethargic.

Why do these people not consider the impact on the mother and ultimately the mother child relationship of all this self sacrifice and sleep deprivation?

Surely us mothers need to look after ourselves and our mental wellbeing as ultimately it will affect our children's wellbeing. Shouldn't mothers be encouraged to be less selfless- do we really have to put up with waking millions of times in the night to breastfeed and having our baby in our beds tossing and turning etc...

I feel better now I have this off my chest.

My DS did not sleep through until he was 6. He woke at 4.15am for the first two years. We tried everything, including ignoring. Nothing worked and trust me, we tried it all.

That must have been hard and harder still if someone rocked up when you were asking for advice and told you that their way would solve the problem and you were doing it wrong.

Oh, I know there are different babies, I am lucky I have a very average baby. Hits all milestones, sleep regressions etc just when the textbooks say.

I wasn't judging you and I hope there was nothing in my post that made you think there was, but this just goes to show how we need to be more sensitive and not waltz in and accuse people of parenting in the wrong way.

*Btw- I b fed myself so I am not 'being judgy' about people's parenting choices

That statement in itself is judging, can you see that OP? *

No I can't- I actually only wrote it because I thought someone may accuse me of criticising their choices- eg choosing to b feed.

No I can't- I actually only wrote it because I thought someone may accuse me of criticising their choices- eg choosing to b feed

It’s drawing lines where there don’t need to be lines is what I meant. Fair enough you didn’t intend it to be judgy, but it read that way.

Maybe the people you’re talking about don’t intend to be either?

Either way, life would be a lot nicer if we weren’t so focused on each other’s parenting.

I knew I'd get flamed when I wrote the op- so bring it on.

"Ok, so you have had no issues but you are feeling unhappy on behalf of mothers who may have had issues.

You seem really irritated given that you feel personally unaffected."

Are you trying to be some online psychologist? The issue is general irritation at some of the ways parents are treated on here by some of the posters... and in other forums too.

Are you trying to be some online psychologist? The issue is general irritation at some of the ways parents are treated on here by some of the posters... and in other forums too

But you’re doing it too!

Either way, life would be a lot nicer if we weren’t so focused on each other’s parenting.

Yep! Agreed. Give advice where asked, but try not to shoot other people down who are also trying to give advice- even if it is different to your own.

Am I? I am not trying to dissect your intentions from one single post and analyse your wellbeing!

I am not trying to dissect your intentions from one single post and analyse your wellbeing!

Neither am I.

Oh yeah. Ha- thought you were starperson- didn't read properly

I think I’m just scunnered with the competition, or the judging that goes on constantly. It’s fucking everywhere and it’s exhausting.

I'm baffled.

You personally feel happy about all decisions made for your own DC.

You feel hugely irritated that posters on MN and other forums get a wide range of advice on parenting including some you disagree with.

Why do you feel so strongly given you are so unaffected?

Sounds to me like you're judging them!

Equally there are lots of parents into attachment parenting minding their own business only to get criticised on a thread on mumsnet...

if someone rocked up when you were asking for advice and told you that their way would solve the problem and you were doing it wrong then surely I would be pleased as I had sought out advice?

How is research judging parents? If research shows that Technique A is better for the baby but for whatever reason you don't use Technique A, for whatever excellent reason, it doesn't invalidate the research or make it a judgement on you

Meh. Judging and competitiveness, as well as seeking out judging and competitiveness, is exhausting. Parenting can be hard enough without it. I just try not to engage. It means I do a lot more nodding and smiling.

There's actually research that supports both sides and lots of research is flawed. To truly understand it, you need to read the original studies.

There's a generation of people in their 40s, 50s, 60s and 70s who were most likely exposed to CC/CIO who are not all anxious and depressed adults.

There's also a generation of young people going through our school system who are increasingly presenting with social anxiety, OCD, depression etc who have probably been raised using more modern styles of parenting.

Now before you accuse me of being judgy, I am not judging people's parenting styles, but making the point that in the grand scheme of things it seems to have little impact as outlined in the studies and other factors in our environment are probably more important.

I think your intentions are well meant, OP: as an academic who has researched the area of motherhood and unrealistic expectations and pressure on mothers (natural birth, breast is still best, child centred parenting etc), you are right to summise that these discourses are unhelpful. And it's great to speak out about this and support those struggling.

However, by mentioning your baby sleeping through at 8 months, you are showing off off a bit, and implying that your way is the right way because it's worked. It's not the same for everyone.

if someone rocked up when you were asking for advice and told you that their way would solve the problem and you were doing it wrong then surely I would be pleased as I had sought out advice?

Was actually in response to a specific poster who had tried all methods to no avail- was actually her baby's personality

I think societal pressures and cyber bullying have an awful lot to do with more teens being depressed/anxious. I also think that understanding of MH is getting better which is why we’re seeing a spike. It’s not perfect, or even great, but it’s moving forward.

I think the judgey atmosphere you describe exists, and you make some fair points about an idealised view of how children should be parented to promote attachment. I work in this field and often tell parents about research that indicates babies need their parents to be attuned to them - ie tuned in, aware of how they are feeling, responsive - around 30% of the time, to thrive and be emotionally healthy. For children who have experienced trauma, they need more like 70% given the negative start.

Anyways, I’m saying that as someone who drove herself mental during the first year of my child’s life, making all of the parenting choices you describe and being terrified of emotionally damaging her. I was so tired I was deranged and had no perspective, and was really aiming for emotional perfection for her. That said, as I am about to have a second child, I know I am likely to make many of the same choices, to co sleep etc, IF that’s what this baby shows she needs like my first did. If not, then great for me.

I think FTMs judge themselves incredibly harshly, because there is no way to prepare for how hard having a baby really is. To cope with this we compare ourselves and judge others, and gravitate towards people who do the same as us and make us feel our choices are ok. I can’t really blame others for the pressure I put on myself during that time, yes it came from reading things online including mumsnet but if I were not so insecure about doing it ‘right’, it wouldn’t have affected me.

I’m looking forward to a second time round giving less fucks about what others are doing and being comfortable with all the mistakes I will make. Glad you’re enjoying your little one, hope it stays that way through all the ups and downs!

However, by mentioning your baby sleeping through at 8 months, you are showing off off a bit, and implying that your way is the right way because it's worked. It's not the same for everyone.

Yes, I take that criticism. It wasn't intended that way though, so sorry if it came across that way. It was more a response to being judged about not always going to baby when they cry.

I think CIO/CC are, relatively speaking, the more modern forms of parenting, and I would say from my experience that they are still very widely used, so I don't think you can equate rising reported incidences of teen MH issues with not using sleep training methods

OP - thank you, I appreciate your kind reply.

As I said, I think your sentiments are genuine. But lived experience can make us all a bit prickly sometimes (me especially!).

I did everything you criticise. I wouldn’t consider myself judgey but I felt judged from day 1.

My DM is completely anti breastfeeding and spent the first year of my sons life telling me he was spoiled for wanting fed and all his sleep problems were from him breastfeeding. She repeatedly said ‘are you sure he’s getting enough milk?’.

My baby didn’t sleep through until 17m. I tried giving him formula, tried CIO and Ferber. I’m glad your kid responded after 2 small cries and slept through. I have no judgement on that. After an hour and a half my kid was still screaming his head off because he needed his mother. So I slept with him and have 0 regrets. Yet EVERY where online people blame the mother for ‘sleep associations’. Completely ignoring the fact that sleep is developmental and they all get there in their own time. My friend (baby slept through from 8 weeks) and SIL (2 kids slept through from around 10-12weeks) never had to make decisions around co sleeping or sleep training.

The reason BF was so important to me was that my husband and father have a weight problem and there’s reportedly less chance of obesity if they bf. I also suffer from endometriosis so the extra year without periods was pretty fine! I didn’t do anything to prove a point or judge other people, we just wanted to do things that way.

For me, sleeping with and following my baby (rather than routine and sleep training) meant a happier boy who woke up smiling rather than screaming. We are all just trying to do our best but I do feel your post is a bit more judging than helpful.

"so I don't think you can equate rising reported incidences of teen MH issues with not using sleep training methods"

I didn't- that was my point. That sleep training methods/lack of sleep training methods make very little difference and that other factors create anxiety/depression/ocd etc.

Though I disagree and think CIO/CC was much more popular when I was growing up than now- given all the research that is published and quoted by different health organisations and individuals