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Parenting

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Original poster

Is this mean or am I ridiculously soft?

80 replies

skidaddle · 18/04/2007 09:11

Now I know it's not nice to judge the parenting of others especially when their dd is only a month old BUT...
a couple we know leave their newborn dd to cry while they are having dinner because they decided before she was born that she wasn't going to disrupt their life (?!). We have had dinner with them twice recently, once at theirs and once at ours and each time we have had dinner through her screaming her little heart out (also waking up our dd to boot!). Each time dinner went on for maybe 20-30 mins.
I just don't undertand this - we would have happily waited until she had fed her, or else could one of them not have picked her up while we ate? They also leave her to cry at night for 15-20 mins before getting up? I just don't understand this - am I really soft (I have been accused of this before ) or does this sound mean to you? Is there anything to be gained? I certainly don't think she will 'learn' anything from it, do you?

OP posts:

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beckybrastraps · 19/04/2007 20:16

Oh God.

theUrbanDryad · 19/04/2007 20:18

this actually makes me feel a lot better about my own parenting skills. when ds was first born he was pretty much permanently attached to my nipple for 7 weeks! i thought i was being a soft touch but i couldn't bear to let him cry! and my mum said that even if he's not feeding he might like to camp out at the breast for comfort...

can't remember who said it, but there was a thread about cc on here a little while ago, and someone said that a new baby has just come from a place where it was cuddled 24/7, could hear its mother's heart, breathing, feel snuggled and safe and warm and secure, then is suddenly thrust into a world of harshness and bright lights! i mean, bloody hell, i'd cry too!

i've no idea what i'd do in your situation Skidaddle, but i would have to say something. some good suggestions on here! at the end of the day, if it leads to a row, it leads to a row.

maybe you point your friend in the direction of MN??!

theUrbanDryad · 19/04/2007 20:20

but becky, some babies just cry more than others. leaving the room because you feel like you just can't take it anymore (and believe me, i've been there too!) is very different to leaving a baby to cry because you want to eat you dinner.

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beckybrastraps · 19/04/2007 20:22

Not for the baby.

LadyTophamHatt · 19/04/2007 20:27

I wouldn't have benn able to sit there with a tiny newborn crying like that.

I would have picked her up and eated one handed or eaten a cold dinner.

I'd prefer a cold dinner than to hear a newborn cry like that.

I wouldn't be able to NOT say something to them.....its unbelieveable cruel IMO.

LadyTophamHatt · 19/04/2007 20:28

eated???

FFS how old am I???

dumbymummy · 19/04/2007 20:30

Yes, that's the nub, Urban. We all know that parenting takes many shapes and forms, but underlying all our different approaches is a desire to love and nurture our children. This couple have decided, pre-delivery, on an agenda which suits them and I fear for that child. This sort of crap goes on all the time; I've heard some horror stories just from my village, and these are children who would never appear in a NSPCC ad. Sorry to sound blunt, OP, and I know you're in a dilemma because they're friends of yours, but try to find a way of sorting this. If you fail, at least you tried. If they take offence, it's probably best to bow out now anyway, because if that's their approach, it will only get worse for you as the years go on. I speak from experience

foxybrown · 19/04/2007 20:34

Don't be hard on yourself Becky, there is a difference - it wasn't that you didn't want the baby to disrupt your life?!

we've all been in the position of having left a baby to cry because we will go mad. I'm about to have no 4 and I know that this baby may be left to cry and fuss a little longer while I get the others sorted, just as 2 and 3 were.

but I do get what you are saying that the baby doesn't know why

2cheekymonkeys · 19/04/2007 20:39

This is a form of unintentional neglect, unintentional because they clearly want to be good parents or they wouldn't have read all the baby books, but they're at risk of damaging their baby during a really crucial time.
I'd definitely have to say something to them, even at the risk of offending them.
And I've never worried about being a soft touch with my newborns - isn't it a new mummy's job to be the softest touch possible while they're tiny?
Becky, your situation was different and you did the right thing at the time IMHO.

bamamama · 19/04/2007 20:39

Just as a side issue....Why aren't these people concerned with waking your child when at your house for dinner? On the few occasions we've been to friend's houses in the last 10 months I've done everything I can to make sure ds is happy and content and that everyone enjoys themselves! I'd be mortified that my actions (or lack of them) had caused all the babies to wake and like it or not there is a lot of sport for some people in judging parenting skills and I don't want to give anyone extra ammunition. I do believe that cc has it's place but not in this situation.

2cheekymonkeys · 19/04/2007 20:46

I did cc with both of mine after 9 months without sleep but it only took 2 or 3 days to work. No fun at the time though and they were old enough to learn from it.

twentypence · 19/04/2007 22:27

No Becky - that's not what the research suggests. There is a whole heap of difference from having your needs met most of the time (still may cry however) and being left in another room crying every time a couple don't want their lives disrupted.

Ds cried a lot too and I have never ever beaten myself up, because the research is not about me - it's about normal babies crying for survival and no attempt being made to calm them - on a regular basis.

edam · 19/04/2007 22:38

They may have read a lot of baby books but they are clearly being a bit thick on this topic. Human babies are born neonate - we should really be pregnant for about a year but standing upright makes that impossible (changes to the pelvis). So there's an evolutionary trade-off which means human babies are born at 9 months, instead, and are much more vulnerable and helpless than other primates. They need us to look after them, not ignore them.

NotanOtter · 19/04/2007 22:39

when you have a few children you sometimes have to leave a neonate to cry

tigermoth · 19/04/2007 23:04

You say there were a lot of parenting books in the house, but are you sure the parents had actually read them? Where the spines in pristine condition? It still might be a case of ignorance. Or do the parents seem very stressed out - is the mother possibly suffering from post natal depression? are they as a couple getting on well?

Could you sound them out about parenting theories, mention a baby book you have read, ask them what they think of such and such, just to see how much knowledge they actually have. Or talk about controlled crying theories, see what they have to say.

You could try a white lie as well - tell them about 'a good friend' of yours who tried controlled crying on their newborn with disasterous effect - the baby became very unsettled for months afterwards, they were storing up all sorts of problems etc etc (mention some research results here if you can) and the parents in hindsight deeply regretted they had tried controlled crying so young etc etc
At least then you are getting the messsage to them without directly criticising them.

It is also possible that one of them actually hates doing controlled crying but for some reason is going along with the views of the other partner, but is longing for an outsider to say something.

NotanOtter · 19/04/2007 23:06

it sounds like they are just eating their tea - baby will be fine

Original poster

skidaddle · 20/04/2007 08:42

Thanks so much for al your replies I do now feel I will have to do something. I must stress that they aren't exactly friends - the father is a colleague of my dp - so it's not as if I know the mother really well and having a conversation about this kind of thing would come up naturally. Nevertheless I think you are right and I need to say something.

twentypence - I would be really interested in seeing some of the research you talk about and tigermoth - i think your suggestion is really good - make it into a hypothetical conversation so that it is not a direct criticism. I am sure that the father (who is lovely) doesn't in his heart want to go along with it - I can see how he squirms when his dd cries. Maybe dp can have a hypothetical chat with him too.

Becky I think what you did is different because your usual response was to comfort your ds but occasionally you didn't - therefore he learnt that the norm was to receive comfort.

Thanks again for all your suggestions and I will let you know how it goes ....

OP posts:

FrannyandZooey · 20/04/2007 08:44

Only read OP but they are rotten selfish fkers

I would have rather cut out my own heart than hear my baby cry when he was a month old

rotten selfish *%&!£

welliemum · 20/04/2007 09:18

I love my food but I cannot eat when a baby is crying.

Have eaten many many 1-handed meals in my time.

I think you should say something, skidaddle. I think they need to understand that a newborn's needs come first. It won't always be like that and they will have a life again, but it needs to go on hold for now.

sunnysideup · 20/04/2007 09:43

I remember when ds was about a month, MIL and PIL kindly offered to make us a dinner at their house. We sat down to eat and ds laid on the rug happily for a while, then just as I was finishing the main course, he started crying so I went to pick him up. My FIL shook his head and said triumphantly "I knew you'd do that!" as in "you pathetic woman you can't leave him alone for a second".

Spose it's a compliment that he 'knew' I was a mum who would go to my baby when it cried but he didn't seem to think that was a good thing. Totally bizarre. And yes I agree I would say something to this (it has to be said) STUPID couple. Go for it.

Hopeitwontbebig · 20/04/2007 11:13

Hi, I'm pregnant with DC3. My Mum always used to say to me that you could spoil a baby from day 1 by 'giving in' to their demands to be picked up and cuddled. I was only 21 when I had DS1 and 23 when I had DS2, I remember being really anxious about picking them up when they were crying and my Mum's words were always ringing around in my head. For the record, I didn't ever leave them to scream, but I always worried about picking them up too much! Thanks Mum.....

I'll be 32 when this baby is born and I will cherish every moment, cuddling my baby, regardless whether I'm eating, it's such a short time and is over so quickly.

foxybrown · 20/04/2007 12:57

Good for you Hopeit, these days are far too precious and we never get them back.

soph28 · 20/04/2007 13:01

I couldn't bear to do that at 1 month old! Babies do change your lives- didn't they realise that?

Also there is a difference between leaving a baby to cry for a short time (much less than 20 minutes) because you feel that you have exhausted every other possibility and the baby really is exhausted and needs to sleep, and leaving a baby to cry because you want to meet your own needs first!! How selfish and uncaring.

nappyaddict · 20/04/2007 13:20

we used to leave ds to cry for about 20 minutes but only when he was going to sleep.

prettymum · 20/04/2007 13:24

at one month, i couldnt leave my dc crying for long, id hold them in my lap if i had to to eat my food! i used controlling crying after they were 6 months! i think its so selfish to do that to a new born who requires all the comfort of its parents at this early stage!

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