Does your toddler have meltdowns like this?

[daimbar]

My 2.5 year old DD has at least one meltdown like this a day (usually 2 or 3) and I thought it was fairly standard until I had to take her home in a taxi yesterday and the taxi driver said he had four children and he’d never seen anything like it.
⁃ comes out of nowhere over nothing (or something trivial like she has put her shoes on the wrong feet.
⁃ Starts with screaming, shouting and throwing herself on the floor (often banging her head quite hard)
⁃ Screams intensely if I go near her or touch her. Claws at my face, tries to scratch my eyes
⁃ She has wild, unfocused eyes - similar to when she had night terrors when she was younger.
⁃ Thrashes about, kicks, screams for approx 20-30 minutes. Any attempt to touch or speak to her just prolongs it
⁃ Once she has ‘come around’ she’s quite meek and often wants to cuddle

Does this sound normal? Or should I worry? She sleeps and eats well so I don’t think it’s down to being hungry or tired.

One of mine was like this. Absolutely nuclear meltdowns that could go on for hours. His staying power was a sight to behold. No amount of validation worked. Sometimes he just felt like screaming!

He’s nearly 7 now, funny, witty but still a massive pest! It gets easier when you can distract them with an iPad!

If its any consolation my ds1 never had a tantrum..genuinely. But he turned into the teenager from hell so maybe you will have it all over.
Bring a snack to nursery for pickup time in case hunger is setting it off.

I feel your pain. DS2 is 2y4m and every now and then throws tantrums that make me think he might actually be possessed 😂

My 3 year old has major tantrums like this. Not every day. But definitely when tired or overwhelmed, they are much worse

As a matter of interest and a real shot in the dark. Your DC isn't on the medication Montelukast? Just my DD was on it before and we stopped it because it was making her agitated. We recently tried it again and she became exactly like you described in your OP. It's a know side effect of the medication. Like I said, long shot but worth asking.

Hi all
Thanks for the recommendations, I will check out the book and try the one syllable ‘you are cross’ technique. We tried no TV this morning and no meltdowns yet so it could be linked to screen time.
No she’s not on any medication.

Her language is good and she can tell us what she needs if she is hungry/itchy but not good enough to express emotion.

My sister thinks she needs a sibling but not sure I could handle a baby on top of this!

two of mine did, and they have ASD, and i think the extra bad tantrums/meltdowns were a marker although i didnt realise it at the time, although NT kids have tantrums too of course

Bran can I ask what other signs you spotted?

From what you describe it’s not a tantrum, it is as you say, a meltdown. My dd used to have them, and they were epic, and very similar process to what you described.
It’s a whole different level to a tantrum, and can’t be treated as such.
You need to try to treat the cause. I say try because sometimes it’s not the obvious.
Also look for warning signs that one is building up, that is the time to give her the escape route.
My dd used to growl, but by the time it got to the growl that meltdown was coming, all I could do at that point was get her somewhere safe (away from other children/adults) fast and limit damage, so in town I’d head to a back alley, at a group we’d go to the foyer or toilets.
But in looking at the pattern in her meltdowns meant that I could see earlier warning signs, her 1st physical reaction was flight not fight, she’d take herself to a corner of a room or out of a shop. (1st reaction is to bring them back.)
But her physiological reaction was a rise in body temperature, she’d look slightly flushed, she’d fidget more, she’d look everywhere except at you, she’d be really sensory seeking, (she’d kick at the floor or chew something)
It took years for me to to figure out that she was doing her damnedest to avoid meltdown, I just wasn’t seeing it.

On a practical note, can you give her something like a banana as soon as you pick her up from nursery, something to get her blood sugars back up quickly.

Thank you so much frusso! Everything you say rings true. She often runs and hides in a cupboard or under a table shortly before a meltdown. I had assumed this was just her being naughty - not trying to avoid her meltdown!
When we were out on Saturday the meltdown happened because I was trying to coax her away from a corner where she was playing by herself to come and have lunch.
I think she finds the world a bit overwhelming .

The world is overwhelming sometimes.

Meltdowns are physically and mentally draining, they don’t want to have a meltdown, but unlike adult they don’t have the understanding to recognise what it is that’s overwhelming or how to express that in words, so primal behaviour takes over because that’s all that is left. behaviour is communication we just have to learn how to tune in to listen.

The trigger/cause wasn’t you bringing her out of the corner or even her hiding in a cupboard, they’re your warning signs, the cause is whatever made her go to there in the 1st place. Once you figure the cause out you can work on teaching her coping strategies or providing earlier get out clause options.

It does take time, and sometimes distraction works, and sometimes it’s leaving the situation, and sometimes you miss the signs completely.

She’s overwhelmed, rather than being naughty. Ignore the pp saying they wouldn’t tolerate it, good grief.

Toddlers can have EPIC episodes like that. Ds can have them, and at one point was at almost that frequency. I spoke to a friend who does things like this for a living and she was of the opinion that he might have some slight sensory issues (which I actually do agree with amd I suspect I share as well.)

I would look at what triggers them - think carefully about what might - for example she’s playing in a corner and suddenly needs to leave. Ok so that’s a sudden change. That can be unsettling. I found giving ds a little warning of what was incoming helped. Ok ds, that looks fun. We are going to go in ten minutes, I will tell you again in a bit, it’s time to finish up. Remind in five, then give them a little buffer to wrap up the activity.
We’ve also found some sensory techniques useful (hugging, rocking, swishing) and he is MUCH improved after getting into sign language.
Perhaps you could look at a sign or a technique she can use to signal she’s overwhelmed? And a method of dealing with it? At home a ‘den’ (some lovely teepees I’ve seen) where she can hide. When out and about get down to her level and just pick her up, hug gently and rock her.
Plenty of quiet time for her as well and definitely don’t let her get too hungry.

Have a google of sensory processing - there’s no need to label her if she doesn’t need it but you can look at techniques to help

I have two (very different) children. Tantrums for us usually start with crying, will sometimes escalate to dropping to the floor or thrashing about. Attempts to calm them down have mixed results unless we give them whatever they want but who does that? Youngest is younger than your DD and won't go for longer than a minute at absolute maximum. Eldest at your DDs age would go up to 10 mins. Youngest is quite controlled and any violent behaviour was very much directed at us with strong glaring and eye contact. Eldest was less focused on us although he would check to gage our reactions. The more upset he got the less attention he paid to us. He was also more violent in his actions throwing himself to the floor with abandon while the youngest carefully sets himself down before setting off. If there is one thing I have learned is that allchildren different.

I’m not surprised she’s having meltdowns if she is not eating at nursery?? She’s probably starving and going mad.

I would be moving her out of nursery or insisting on packed lunch or something to make sure she’s properly fed!!

Sorry I should clarify she always eats her snacks at nursery and will usually try what’s on offer for meals even if it’s only one or two bites so she’s not ravenous when I pick her up just peckish. She always has a snack for the journey home and then some toast or pasta when she gets in so I don’t think the meltdowns are related to hunger.
About to collect her now so will try the methods mentioned!

Large extended family here, and while most children haven't been like this, a handful of them have. Highly strung individuals, no ASD in our case, but the meltdowns themselves seem very similar. (Dd once told me much later that when she was in a meltdown she couldn't recognise people around her; it seemed like they were monsters trying to get at her)

My db would do the opposite of running away to hide: we could always tell when a meltdown was coming because he would be going from person to person trying to wind them up to get a reaction. It was as if the tension was unbearable but he couldn't allow himself to let it out until somebody gave him a reason. He was generally a very well behaved little boy.

The good news is, the children in our family who did have meltdowns have all grown up into very gentle and well controlled adults. And they weren't difficult teenagers either.

Love the advice to ignore them. And imagining if you only do that, they'll never do it again. Sweet.

DS 6 screamed at me this morning because he wanted to give me his PE bag and I said "wait until we're upstairs." (We live in a basement flat.) I don't have time for tantrums on school mornings, so I just carried on going upstairs and took the bag from him at the top.

What with you not having time for them it's a good job your ds didn't actually have a tantrum then isn't it, EvilDoctor

If he had I can't imagine him traipsing up the stairs after you; that's a poor sort of tantrum in my book. Must try harder!

Which is why the tactic works! 😂 I also tell him that if he has a tantrum and misses registration, they won't cook lunch for him. What actually happens is that they have to get a yellow slip from the office to prove they're there.

I look forward to having a child old enough to be outsmarted/reasoned with!

When he was younger I just picked him up and forced him into the buggy. He's DC4.

Mine goes under the arm Evil

evil there’s a big difference between a tantrum and a meltdown.